Is A Deep Sand Bed Still All The Rage?

[jellyfish4me]

It has been a few years since i enjoyed this hobby. I had a broken stand (caused by my dog) and was tired of the expense of upkeep for my salt water fish (kinda reef) tank. So when I tore it down for repair, I never set it back up again. I gave my wildlife away to local reefers and sold my lighting system.

But the time has come to restart it. I miss it.

Here is what I have (NOT set up) 125 gal with a 55 gal undertank refugium. 2 large external iwaki pumps (don't remember the size, but I'm pretty sure they were what I needed). 1 pump was to get the refugium water to the display tank with an overflow for the opposite. The other pump was just used for extra circulation because I had it. 6 powerheads (again, I don't remember the size). A small ton of dead-live rock. And lots of misc. items.

I used to have home depot silica sand (that was seeded with live sand) as a deep sand bed in the refugium and the display tank. This was the ONLY filtration I had on the tank. Besides the live rock, calepra, mangrove trees in the refugium. In other words no mechanical filtration.

My questions if you would be so kind...

I need a deep sand bed because I HAVE TO HAVE my favorite fish, a jawfish or 2. Are deep sand beds still considered a good form of filtration? Is silica sand still considered an acceptable substitute for the real thing?

What are some good newer books to buy? I don't need basic books as I remember the basics. I'm looking for something a little more advanced.

Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated!

P.S. I just remembered... I had scratch or 2 in the front of my display tank. At the time there was no way to fix it. Anything new out there that I don't know about?

[Magnatron]

id have to say no on the silica sand, get some good argonite sand from teh lfs (i used the carib sea brand myself) .

and if its a glass tank, nope still not much you can do about it, mabe a glass shop can buff it out for ya. and well ive never been one to comment on the popular opinion of things but i can tell you i have a DSB in my display.....not to sure if id do a DSB in my display again but there will always be one is the system somewhere, be it the fuge or some other container.

i cant comment on the jaw fish myself but i think you may be able to get away with like 2 inches in your display and a DSB in the fuge.

well thats my 2 cents im sure the reef gods will chime in with much better info hehe

[seanb1]

i just got schooled about arrgonite/silica sand in the reef chemistry forums. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...readid=1359409

silica is fine, no reason not to use it.

aragonite sand does nothing suppliers says it does, except provide a more favorable enviroment for sand dwelling organisms.

silica costs 3 bucks for 50 pounds, aragonite costs 50 for 50 pounds.

nope no way to fix scratches in glass.

the new big thing in nutrient export is cheato.

i have just for the heck of it in the last month or so set up a refugium with a somewhat DSB 4-5 inches and have a giant ball of cheato in there as well.

i dont know what you have for a skimmer, did you mention it? but now days you can buy a kick butt skimmer for that size tank for under 200 dollars, thats good news.

good luck, look forward to seeing your tank up.

[jamest0o0]

I have a blue spotted jawfish(pretty expensive and rare), but it is a very interesting and colorful fish, just make sure you have a lid and I would not recommend having 2.... they will fight and possibly kill each other... GL!

[jellyfish4me]

Thank you all for the input... FYI: I used to have 2 jawfish... the pearly ones (due to price) the blue spotted jawfish is to die for! But I could never seem to justify the cost in case something happened (death, ect). I am a BUDGET reefer

Anyway... They both seemed to have enough room in a tank my size. I can't remember if they lived together all of the time, but they would team up at least on occassion and have eggs. It was the coolest thing to see Daddy Jawfish with his mouth full of eggs!

Cheato? Is that the calapra that looks like stringy thin noodles that grow in a ball? If so, I used to have some back in the day in my refugium.

LFS Sand: Wish I could, my only LFS is Petco. No live sand. The majority of the things I bought were shipped to me. On occassion I would drive the 90 min to Omaha, NE or Siouxfalls, SD to see a real LFS.

Like seanndenise1 said... "silica costs 3 bucks for 50 pounds, aragonite costs 50 for 50 pounds"... I'm sure aragonite IS better sand, BUT, I don't think it is $47 per 50 pounds worth better. I can't remember how much sand my tank and refugium will need but it will be in the hundreds of pounds range.

Skimmer: Used to have a diy model (budget reefer again). But I can't find all of the pieces. So not sure right now what I will buy/make.

Glass Scratched: I was looking on ebay. They have some kits that fix scratched eyeglasses. I might try one.

Any suggestions on good books?

[jamest0o0]

oh, then you had paired jawfish.... that works, but isn't very common from what I've read.... I've heard paired jawfish are extremely interesting to have in a tank, but I could never find an actual pair and I just love the blue spotted....

[jellyfish4me]

I think you are right about the paired jawfish and thank you for reminding me. I was thinking I would just add 2 jawfish. Forgetting that they have to be paired or at least male/female. I will read up on them again, so I can figure out how I can get a paired set in the first place. I honestly think it was just dumb luck the first time. I do remember that I need to add the jawfish before most anything else for the sake of them not getting bullied until they set up shop.

[jamest0o0]

yup, you don't want them dieing from stress or jumping out, and if you can get them paired go for it... GL!

[Chibils]

You may want to avoid bluespots. Though they're beautiful, they're expensive and often tend to develop an unidentified disease. There's a lot of talk about it on the reef fishes forum.

[Aquarist007]

Originally posted by jellyfish4me
...

I need a deep sand bed because I HAVE TO HAVE my favorite fish, a jawfish or 2. Are deep sand beds still considered a good form of filtration? Is silica sand still considered an acceptable substitute for the real thing?

IMO consensus here seems to be that live rock, a moderate sand bed and a protein skimmer are very effecient at handling the filtration needs of your reef tank.
Also the consensus re sand beds seems to be that 3-5 inches gives you the best choice and rules out some of the neg factors of deep sand beds. 3-5 inches gives you enough for most critters that use it.
Finally there is renewed interest on the use of refugiums and chaeto macro algae for nitrate and phosphate reduction

You might enjoy reading over this thread--there is alot of info on sumps and refugiums on it and a discussion of sand beds

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...readid=1349443

[jamest0o0]

Originally posted by Chibils
You may want to avoid bluespots. Though they're beautiful, they're expensive and often tend to develop an unidentified disease. There's a lot of talk about it on the reef fishes forum.

I read a lot about this disease before I got mine, supposedly it usually shows about a week or 2 after you get it because of all the stress(these fish are very sensitive when stressed), but I got mine from divers den and is guaranteed for 2 weeks, drip acclimated him for a few hours and added him to the tank reducing stress as much as possible.... mine is doing great now and will even swim up to get food so I don't have to target feed.... so far I've had no bad encounters with liveaquaria.... knock on wood hehe

[jellyfish4me]

Thanks for link Capt. It is a good read, I'm about half way thru it.

James: 2 week guarantee? Woohoo! That's news too me! Last thing I remember was "arrive alive guarantee" when online shipping, but that was it. Heck... My local Petco which only has 2 small tanks for salt water fish doesn't even give you a 1 hr guarantee on salt water fish.

A 2 week guarantee almost makes the cost versus death risk more reasonable. I'm no where near ready for a fish right now, I just spent the night scrubbing dead-live rock. Let alone adding water, cycling... you know the drill. I'll get there sooner or later.

The tank will be set up around the jawfish needs (it was last time too). So the sandbed depth is a major concern right now, but I think I'm getting quite a few good suggestions so far. What are using for your blue spot?

[jamest0o0]

I have about a 4in sandbed for my jawfish and he loves it, has trenches all through the tank... and yeah liveaquaria guarantees for up to 14 days after arrival, plus I got to see the actual picture of the jawfish I ordered and was cheaper than most sites I see let alone my LFS which sells them for like $250

[Aquarist007]

Randy H-F talks a little bit about deep sand beds and his setup on this thread:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...readid=1347461

[papagimp]

for the jawfish, have a minimum of 3 inches of sandbed, and a variety of grain sizes as well. More would benfit the jawfish more though, I'd reommend 4+ " of sandbed so he can properly construct his burrow. AS long as you can have roughly 1 sq fot per jawfishk, you should be able to place multiple specimens together, they are extremely territorial but not exactly violently so. I never witnessed anymore expect the fishes making faces at each other. The jawfish diggin around in the display will negate some of the DSB effect, hopefully he won't be like my last one and dig a new burrow ever few days messing up the entire sandbed. But diggin as deeply as they like to, it'll get right into that anerobic zone, bringin oxygen in the process. So If you want a DSB, I'd place one in the fuge as well as having sufficient sandbed in the display for the fish itself.

as for silica sand, many are still using that as well. I prefer pulverized limestone (pavestone) but silica would be close. and just as cheap I'd imagine.

[Zukari]

I have a jawfish in my tank and I have roughly 3 1/2 inches of sand bed, but he found a home under one of my larger rocks and loves it.

I think he would prefer a deeper sand bed, I will be adding more in time - but he isdoing great, eating and even coming out of his lair to see what is going on .

I have a yellow head.

[joy solomon]

Regarding your question on books.......The Reef Aquarium, Volume 3 by Delbeek and Sprung is a great reference. It was published in 2005.

[tmz]

Vols 1 & 2 of The Reef Aquarium are also good.

[inachu]

YOu can try the CD scratch remover stuff.

use a plastic squigee like they use when patching holes in drywall.

[Lotus99]

One thing I've read about sand from the home improvement store is that sandblasting sand is rounder than some other kinds. This would probably be better for the jawfish (less irritating on the skin), but I think you might want to have someone else confirm for you.

[Mavrk]

I have a DSB (4 inches) and it is great for reducing nitrates. Between the microfauna, the nassarius snails (all the rage by the way) and the cerith snails it gets turned over enough to prevent major gas build up. It takes about 6 months to get the full affect. A remote DSB is another option (but not in your case since you want a jaw fish).

I didn't have any luck with chaetomorpha because my levels are too low to grow the stuff. But the stuff is great if you can grow it. It reduces nitrates, phosphates, heavy metals, and is a great place for pods to hang out an multiply. Caulerpa is invasive and can have other issues.

I highly recommend a phosban reactor filled with phosphate remover (I like PHOSar).

A skimmer is definately a great thing to have.

Get a refractometer while you are at it.

[jellyfish4me]

thanks again for all of your feedback....

"YOu can try the CD scratch remover stuff." .... ooooh what a good idea! I will try that 1st while I'm waiting for the ebay eyeglass scratch repair to arrive.

You know what's funny? I can't find the scratch(s) while the tank is empty. And these are scratch(s) that where a HUGE eye magnet. At certain times it was not noticable, but at other times it was the main thing you could see. I'm going to have to fill it with water and check for 24 hrs to find it again. I think it was at night with the tank lights on that it was seen best.

I rememeber that algae would grow in it making it a green scratch! It's gotta go!