Newbie lighting question?

[hartnell]

OK help me understand the whole watt to gallon thing
my problem is as lighting gets more effiecent,your using less wattage to get the same amount of light ,right?
How much and what spectrum do I need for my tank, lets say my 150 I would like some fish and a few corals ?
from what I have studied LED is the way to go for all the reasons you choose lighting; effiecency,light output, heat transference,space used.
So why cant I put together some LED panels and light my tank ? And why aren't reefers doing this ?,from what I've seen A large amount of reefers are well educated with the knowledge and means do this, or know people who could.

LED's are cheap and I see some LED for reefs are thousands for something that would cost a fraction to build.

Sorry for my rambling just want to understand actual lighting needs if an energy effiecent light uses 25 watts to produce the same as a regular 100 watt doesn't that change the whole watts to gallon thing?if the light is producing the same spectrum of lighting?

[seanb1]

i think if someone does build one it will be built here.

they are high dollar equipment and right now nobody wants to spend 8000 dollars on a lighting system for a 6 foot tank when you can accomplish the same goal with a 1000 dollars.

go talk to the guys/girls in the diy forum here on reef central, im sure theres 50 people in the who already have plans right up your alley.

[hartnell]

Thanks I'm new here and new to the hobby seemed the place post.
Is there a way to just copy this post to there?

[hartnell]

so how would you figure out light output of LED panel compared to a MH

[Hal]

The issue is PAR. PAR is a measure of the light's intensity. LED's generally don't have the intensity to cut it for corals.

PAR will also be a function of distance from the lightsource, so you can't just say that light X has a par output of 100. You also need to know how far from the light, and are we talking about light transmission through air (usually) or water. Keep in mind that the air/water barrier will cause a HUGE decrease in par as will passing through water itself.

Ignore the whole watts/gallon thing. That's a good place to start, but PAR is the real measure.

I haven't heard of a LED system that is capable of supporting light loving corals, and the few I have seen period are multi-thousands of dollars. Most of us have metal halides or T5's for a reason: good bang for the buck.

Keep in mind that a good reflector can dramatically effect the light that your corals see too. A lumenmax/lumenbright (I can never keep these straight) will give you double the par over a standard spyder reflector. You'll also pay $125 compared to $40, but the extra light output might be worth it.

Lastly, don't forget about the light spectrum that is output from a bulb. A 400W Radium bulb (can't remember if they're 14K or 20K color temp) will only provide as much useable light to a coral as a 250W 10K bulb. And 6500K bulbs will be even better for coral growth. You'll get some pretty blue light and flourescing too from the Radiums, but that generally is for your eyes only, not to help the coral any. LED's might have some issues here too, although I don't know one way or the other.

[marioensf]

Don't mean to hijack the tread but have you seen the post for the new light "thing" PLASMA BULB? a tiny LED size bulb makes a 400W MH shy
But what will be the price?? and when will it be available?
I'm sure MH, PC and T's are here to stay for a little longer due to finance constraints...
seanndenise1 is right, why spend $8K when $1K does it?

[EdKruzel]

Originally posted by Hal
The issue is PAR. PAR is a measure of the light's intensity.

Wrong, The expression Photosynthetically Active Radiation, often abbreviated PAR, designates the spectral range of solar light from 400 to 700 nanometers that is useful to terrestrial plants (and for our concern the zooanthelle in corals) in the process of photosynthesis. This spectral region corresponds more or less with the range of light visible to the human eye.

Originally posted by Hal
LED's generally don't have the intensity to cut it for corals.

Well, yes and no; back to our friend the symbiotic algae growing within the tissue of corals. The zooanthelle are brown, yellow and occasionally green and the LED's sold in the aquarium trade are more than adequate to complete photosynthesis (that would be the yes portion). Can they satisfy most reefers needs for brightly colored "Light Loving" corals, probably not, and this is why. The very bright colors on corals and clams are not zooanthelle, but a protective protein pigment designed to reflect a certain spectrum of light away from the specimen almost like a sun screen. When you see a bright blue clam it is absorbing most of the spectrum except that in the 400-420nm range (blue). The portion of the spectrum is reflected back at us and we see blue. If the intensity isn't present then the pigments fad and we only see the zooanthelle which will often make our corals look brown.

For a 150gal tank with moderate to higher light lovers, I'd recommend a minimum of 250watt DE Metal Halides. On a 6' system you'll have three bulbs plus supplemental actinic lights and LED's (in many cases if you choose) for night viewing.

[hartnell]

Alright then say I put together a 1200 led panel(actually it will be more like 6 panels of 200 LED 's or so)and kick it off with with some pc,vho, or ho fluorescent for eye appeal
what spectrum and how much kelvin will be required?
lets just say I'm going to make a greener ref system or at least try .
What type of light meter and where would I measure from (outside tank/inside tank in water tight box/ under light[how far from light]to make sure there is enough lighting.
I would like to make sure there will be enough light before I switch lighing systems,no sense stressing any animals.

[Larah]

So...since Ijust bought a PC retro fit, with 1 96W 6700K and 1 96W 10,000K and 1 Blue and 1 pink Actinic, I should see better color and htere is more PAR availbale to the corals?

[Larah]

???

[EdKruzel]

There is quite a bit more that needs to be learned before attempting your own lighting, but it is definitely possible.

Look up studies by Dana Riddle and Sanjay Joshi on intensity, PAR and how they affect corals.

[Larah]

What do you mean, "before attenmpting your own lighting"?
Oh wait, you're talking about the LED lighting.. Right?

[EdKruzel]

Originally posted by Larah
What do you mean, "before attenmpting your own lighting"?
Oh wait, you're talking about the LED lighting.. Right?

Yes before building your own fixture or upgrading; if you have a better understanding how light effects your system and the corals you keep, you'll make better decisions or spend less to get what's needed.

[jeffgnz]

Originally posted by marioensf
Don't mean to hijack the tread but have you seen the post for the new light "thing" PLASMA BULB? a tiny LED size bulb makes a 400W MH shy
But what will be the price?? and when will it be available?
I'm sure MH, PC and T's are here to stay for a little longer due to finance constraints...
seanndenise1 is right, why spend $8K when $1K does it?

The plasma bulb is INSANE! Size of a grain of rice and uses far less power than MH, I sure hope they gets these rolling soon. I reckon the bulb will probably also have an amazing lifespan and if it burns out, well how expensive could a bulb the size of a grain of rice be?