which RO/DI to get

kvosstra · 04/23/2008, 02:46 PM

Hi,

I'm trying to decide which Ro/DI to get. I dont need the "ferrari" version, just one that will take my TDS down to 0 or very close to that.

I have adequate water pressure, but I dont know what TDS I am starting at.

Any more info you need to make a good suggestion?

-Kyle

rbursek · 04/23/2008, 02:53 PM

TheFilterguys.biz, check them out very good priceing, CS and knowledge.

kdblove_99 · 04/23/2008, 02:55 PM

Agree Filter guys Ocean Reef +1 great unit and customer service

kenargo · 04/23/2008, 03:04 PM

SpectraPure (SpectraPure.com) . Better quality units (IMO), cost more initially but they have a (high end) unit that you get 1:2 (waste:good) water. I think most units are 4:1 (or higher, meaning 4 G down the drain for 1 G tank water).

SpectraPure has been doing water filtrations for over 20 years, you can't say that for many filter companies today.

I've also read that the membranes in the SpectraPure units last longer so even though you pay more initially you may save in the long run, especially if you calculate in the water bill and filter replacements.

Do the research though; different people will have different opinions.

kvosstra · 04/23/2008, 03:44 PM

Kenargo,

Does spectrapure use smaller micron filters to enhance the life of the membrane? Should I have a 1 and a 5 micron filter, or do some of the better, high end, filters have even smaller filter's such as .1 or .5 micron filters?

How important is it to have two carbon blocks? 1 for chlorine and another to ensure that the chloramine is removed from the water source, since I know that my water company adds a small amount to the water.

kenargo · 04/23/2008, 05:09 PM

These are great questions for the SpectrPure folks here on RC but I'll respond to what I know...

Quote:

Should I have a 1 and a 5 micron filter

There is no need to go too large unless water has high sediment (e.g., well water). If you have this condition then a pre-pre-filter can help the life of the smaller micron pre-filter; the smaller one is more $$.

Quote:

How important is it to have two carbon blocks?

1 good carbon block is sufficient for most water supplies.

I own the UHE (it's nearly 8 months old and still produces 0 tds water (I make + 200 G / month). I am still running the original cartridges which are:

1 - 0.5 micron Sediment Pre-Filter
1 - 1/2 micron Carbon Block Pre-Filter with a 20,000 gallon chlorine removal capacity
1 - 90 GPD, 98.0+% avg. rejection membrane
1 - DI (their oen special mix)
1 - Silica buster

The unit has 2, dual TDI meters to monitor about everything the system is doing. I measure for chlorine (after 6 months, test monthly using a cheap test; but most people just replace the prefilter and carbon after 6 months). The TDS meter tells when to replace the DI or Silica buster and a water pressure gage tells when to replace the pre-filter.

Here is a link: http://www.spectrapure.com/St_MaxCap-RO-DI.htm

jubjub · 04/23/2008, 05:20 PM

i second filterguys....

mine's been great

Furnman · 04/23/2008, 05:27 PM

A good short read on this subject is available right here @

http://reefcentral.com/modules.php?s...showpage&pid=2

I went with an Ocean Reef + 1 but with the laundry sink adapter in lieu of the self piercing saddle valve.

I was interested in the water saving feature of the Spectrapure unit but did not want to spend that much. Filtersguys quality is very good and they are very easy to get a hold of.

DE

kvosstra · 04/24/2008, 09:06 AM

Thanks everyone for the information. I have some reading and decisions to make.

-Kyle

AZDesertRat · 04/24/2008, 09:47 AM

I also use the Spectrapure UHE 1:1 unit, there is nothing else even similar to it.
I used a Spectrapure MaxCap for a few years and it was an excellent unit giving me greatly extended DI life and superior water quality but still at th normal 4 to 1 waste. the new UHE will give you 1:1 or even 1:2 (67% recovery or 1 gallon of waste for ever 2 gallons of good unlike the normal 4 gallons of waste for every 1 gallon of good). The microprocessor controller is a huge step in technology and works like a charm.

I use the 0.2 micron absolute rated prefilter and 0.5 micron carbon block and together they will extend the life of the membrane tremendously since it never sees the things they filter out beforehand. No need for two blocks, thats a holdover from the old days when carbon was not as efficient as it is today.

kvosstra · 04/24/2008, 10:02 AM

AZ - Do I need any particular carbon size/density/etc. to remove the chloramine that is added to my water?
Or, are the advertized chloramine blocks just a bunch of advertising/ marketing gimmicks?

thanks,

-Kyle

AZDesertRat · 04/24/2008, 10:43 AM

The 0.5 micron Matrixx Chlorine Guzzler will take care of it.
One reason some vendors provide two carbons is they are relying on the first carbon to act as a prefilter protecting the second carbon. If you use a very good absolute rated prefilter you only need the single carbon since all sediment, particulates and colloidal material is removed by the prefilter. One of carbons biggest enemies is colloidal materials plugging up the pores rendering them useless. Always use a prefilter rated as small as possible to protect the carbon. I read somewhere that a single ounce of Matrixx carbon has surface area equal to an acre of land surface, thats a tremendous amount of pores! Other carbons in higher micron ranges have less pores and I have heard are equal to about a football field is surface area. Still a lot but not nearly as much. Its critical to keep all those pores open by doing the best prefiltration you can.

kvosstra · 04/24/2008, 10:50 AM

I'd take the football field over the acre...(LOL)
Acre = 43,560 square feet
Football field 160 ft. x300 ft. = 48000 sq. ft.

But your point is pretty clear after the reading - most carbon gets clogged easily with sediment and renderes the carbon block useless, Thus it makes sense to filter as much out of the water before the carbon. I see that the spectrapure has a .2 micron filter. That is a lot smaller than the 5 micron for the others.

Not to mention that the carbon in the high end spectrapure uses a .5 micron carbon, instead of the 10 micron.

Now, the real question is, how large/small is the sediment and impurities in the water? Thus, is the smaller size really needed, or is all just show?

-kyle

AZDesertRat · 04/24/2008, 12:09 PM

Ask Randy Holmes Farley. His last Spectrapure RO membrane lasted over 9 years of heavy use.
How many others can say that? Quality costs more but it pays for itself over and over in the long haul.
Another thing you can do, and this goes for any unit is to monitor the chlorine after the carbon, yes its a lot of work when the 6 month filter chage rule works pretty good, but better carbons will last longer if kept clean. With my new MaxCap UHE 1:1 system the carbon could concievably go for years since I am only passing a fraction of the water thrugh it as with a normal 4:1 waste system. I do have a low range chlorine test kit and will monitor it over time but it can probably go 2 years.

kvosstra · 04/24/2008, 05:39 PM

Ok - so the $500 question: Is the UHE version worth the extra money? If you keep the unit for the next 5 years will it reap a return in value through less filters, DI, and water?

Thanks for all the input everyone!

-Kyle

kenargo · 04/24/2008, 05:47 PM

Being an owner of the UHE; I would say 100% absolutely, no question in my mind otherwise. (IMO) there is no RO/DI unit available by any other vendor that can come close to the UHE.

AZDesertRat · 04/24/2008, 05:53 PM

I have not crunched all the numbers but initially I would have to say it would be close. Figure the carbon block will last 3 or 4 times longer, probably 18 months to two years, the 0.2 micron with 10x the surface area should last much longer unless you have high seiment loading and you will save a bundle on water and sewer at like $3 each per thousand gallons or more since you are using much less for flushing or waste. I know our water and sewer rates keep going up a couple times a year, we just had a big increase in both water and sewer rates just last month. It really depends on how much water you make I suppose.

04/23/2008, 02:46 PM	#1
kvosstra Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 995	which RO/DI to get Hi, I'm trying to decide which Ro/DI to get. I dont need the "ferrari" version, just one that will take my TDS down to 0 or very close to that. I have adequate water pressure, but I dont know what TDS I am starting at. Any more info you need to make a good suggestion? -Kyle __________________ "To him, all good things, trout as well as eternal salvation, come by grace and grace comes by art and art does not come easy." -Norman Maclean, A River Runs Through It, 1976 Current Tank Info: recently set up my 40G sps tank again!

04/23/2008, 03:04 PM	#4
kenargo Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Redmond, WA Posts: 8,151	SpectraPure (SpectraPure.com) . Better quality units (IMO), cost more initially but they have a (high end) unit that you get 1:2 (waste:good) water. I think most units are 4:1 (or higher, meaning 4 G down the drain for 1 G tank water). SpectraPure has been doing water filtrations for over 20 years, you can't say that for many filter companies today. I've also read that the membranes in the SpectraPure units last longer so even though you pay more initially you may save in the long run, especially if you calculate in the water bill and filter replacements. Do the research though; different people will have different opinions. __________________ Click on my name to visit my homepage and access a collection of AquaController and Apex software, tips, trick and other Q&A including a link to the 'unofficial Apex new users guide' with loads of helpful information and don't forget to put a pin in my location map. Current Tank Info: 225G, BK 300 Deluxe, Deltec PF601, Precision Marine Kalkreactor, 2-LMIII+6 pumps, SpectraPure UHE, Apex, LunarSim, Tunze 6305s. Mixed reef, clam, fish, etc.

04/23/2008, 03:44 PM	#5
kvosstra Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 995	Kenargo, Does spectrapure use smaller micron filters to enhance the life of the membrane? Should I have a 1 and a 5 micron filter, or do some of the better, high end, filters have even smaller filter's such as .1 or .5 micron filters? How important is it to have two carbon blocks? 1 for chlorine and another to ensure that the chloramine is removed from the water source, since I know that my water company adds a small amount to the water. __________________ "To him, all good things, trout as well as eternal salvation, come by grace and grace comes by art and art does not come easy." -Norman Maclean, A River Runs Through It, 1976 Current Tank Info: recently set up my 40G sps tank again!

04/23/2008, 05:20 PM	#7
jubjub Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: vacaville, cali Posts: 2,698	i second filterguys.... mine's been great __________________ "The world holds two classes of men - intelligent men without religion, and religious men without intelligence." - Abu Ala Al-Maari

04/24/2008, 09:06 AM	#9
kvosstra Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 995	Thanks everyone for the information. I have some reading and decisions to make. -Kyle __________________ "To him, all good things, trout as well as eternal salvation, come by grace and grace comes by art and art does not come easy." -Norman Maclean, A River Runs Through It, 1976 Current Tank Info: recently set up my 40G sps tank again!

04/23/2008, 02:53 PM	#2
rbursek Moved On Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: germantown,wi Posts: 2,339	TheFilterguys.biz, check them out very good priceing, CS and knowledge.

04/23/2008, 02:55 PM	#3
kdblove_99 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Frederick,CO Posts: 8,683	Agree Filter guys Ocean Reef +1 great unit and customer service

04/23/2008, 05:27 PM	#8
Furnman Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Mass Posts: 106	A good short read on this subject is available right here @ http://reefcentral.com/modules.php?s...showpage&pid=2 I went with an Ocean Reef + 1 but with the laundry sink adapter in lieu of the self piercing saddle valve. I was interested in the water saving feature of the Spectrapure unit but did not want to spend that much. Filtersguys quality is very good and they are very easy to get a hold of. DE

04/24/2008, 09:47 AM	#10
AZDesertRat Moved On Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: NW Phoenix Posts: 16,621	I also use the Spectrapure UHE 1:1 unit, there is nothing else even similar to it. I used a Spectrapure MaxCap for a few years and it was an excellent unit giving me greatly extended DI life and superior water quality but still at th normal 4 to 1 waste. the new UHE will give you 1:1 or even 1:2 (67% recovery or 1 gallon of waste for ever 2 gallons of good unlike the normal 4 gallons of waste for every 1 gallon of good). The microprocessor controller is a huge step in technology and works like a charm. I use the 0.2 micron absolute rated prefilter and 0.5 micron carbon block and together they will extend the life of the membrane tremendously since it never sees the things they filter out beforehand. No need for two blocks, thats a holdover from the old days when carbon was not as efficient as it is today.

04/24/2008, 10:02 AM	#11
kvosstra Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 995	AZ - Do I need any particular carbon size/density/etc. to remove the chloramine that is added to my water? Or, are the advertized chloramine blocks just a bunch of advertising/ marketing gimmicks? thanks, -Kyle __________________ "To him, all good things, trout as well as eternal salvation, come by grace and grace comes by art and art does not come easy." -Norman Maclean, A River Runs Through It, 1976 Current Tank Info: recently set up my 40G sps tank again!

04/24/2008, 10:43 AM	#12
AZDesertRat Moved On Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: NW Phoenix Posts: 16,621	The 0.5 micron Matrixx Chlorine Guzzler will take care of it. One reason some vendors provide two carbons is they are relying on the first carbon to act as a prefilter protecting the second carbon. If you use a very good absolute rated prefilter you only need the single carbon since all sediment, particulates and colloidal material is removed by the prefilter. One of carbons biggest enemies is colloidal materials plugging up the pores rendering them useless. Always use a prefilter rated as small as possible to protect the carbon. I read somewhere that a single ounce of Matrixx carbon has surface area equal to an acre of land surface, thats a tremendous amount of pores! Other carbons in higher micron ranges have less pores and I have heard are equal to about a football field is surface area. Still a lot but not nearly as much. Its critical to keep all those pores open by doing the best prefiltration you can.

04/24/2008, 10:50 AM	#13
kvosstra Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 995	I'd take the football field over the acre...(LOL) Acre = 43,560 square feet Football field 160 ft. x300 ft. = 48000 sq. ft. But your point is pretty clear after the reading - most carbon gets clogged easily with sediment and renderes the carbon block useless, Thus it makes sense to filter as much out of the water before the carbon. I see that the spectrapure has a .2 micron filter. That is a lot smaller than the 5 micron for the others. Not to mention that the carbon in the high end spectrapure uses a .5 micron carbon, instead of the 10 micron. Now, the real question is, how large/small is the sediment and impurities in the water? Thus, is the smaller size really needed, or is all just show? -kyle __________________ "To him, all good things, trout as well as eternal salvation, come by grace and grace comes by art and art does not come easy." -Norman Maclean, A River Runs Through It, 1976 Current Tank Info: recently set up my 40G sps tank again!

04/24/2008, 12:09 PM	#14
AZDesertRat Moved On Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: NW Phoenix Posts: 16,621	Ask Randy Holmes Farley. His last Spectrapure RO membrane lasted over 9 years of heavy use. How many others can say that? Quality costs more but it pays for itself over and over in the long haul. Another thing you can do, and this goes for any unit is to monitor the chlorine after the carbon, yes its a lot of work when the 6 month filter chage rule works pretty good, but better carbons will last longer if kept clean. With my new MaxCap UHE 1:1 system the carbon could concievably go for years since I am only passing a fraction of the water thrugh it as with a normal 4:1 waste system. I do have a low range chlorine test kit and will monitor it over time but it can probably go 2 years.

04/24/2008, 05:39 PM	#15
kvosstra Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 995	Ok - so the $500 question: Is the UHE version worth the extra money? If you keep the unit for the next 5 years will it reap a return in value through less filters, DI, and water? Thanks for all the input everyone! -Kyle __________________ "To him, all good things, trout as well as eternal salvation, come by grace and grace comes by art and art does not come easy." -Norman Maclean, A River Runs Through It, 1976 Current Tank Info: recently set up my 40G sps tank again!

04/24/2008, 05:47 PM	#16
kenargo Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Redmond, WA Posts: 8,151	Being an owner of the UHE; I would say 100% absolutely, no question in my mind otherwise. (IMO) there is no RO/DI unit available by any other vendor that can come close to the UHE. __________________ Click on my name to visit my homepage and access a collection of AquaController and Apex software, tips, trick and other Q&A including a link to the 'unofficial Apex new users guide' with loads of helpful information and don't forget to put a pin in my location map. Current Tank Info: 225G, BK 300 Deluxe, Deltec PF601, Precision Marine Kalkreactor, 2-LMIII+6 pumps, SpectraPure UHE, Apex, LunarSim, Tunze 6305s. Mixed reef, clam, fish, etc.

04/24/2008, 05:53 PM	#17
AZDesertRat Moved On Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: NW Phoenix Posts: 16,621	I have not crunched all the numbers but initially I would have to say it would be close. Figure the carbon block will last 3 or 4 times longer, probably 18 months to two years, the 0.2 micron with 10x the surface area should last much longer unless you have high seiment loading and you will save a bundle on water and sewer at like $3 each per thousand gallons or more since you are using much less for flushing or waste. I know our water and sewer rates keep going up a couple times a year, we just had a big increase in both water and sewer rates just last month. It really depends on how much water you make I suppose.