Closed Loop or no ?

OCEAN SIZE · 05/25/2008, 04:28 PM

Hey there - I'm setting up a 220g with a sump on the other side of a wall.

I have 2 drain lines, and I'm considering using:
* both to output to sump, but want to minimize drilling holes in this wall...

* that said, considering linking them (they're 1.5") so there's only one drain tube out to sump

* 1 for drain, one for closed loop, but it seems the wattage for a hammerhead or even an ocean runner VS what they give back is not very good. Power is expensive in California, and I'm trying to do this efficiently

* 1 for drain, one closed off with valve but plumbed to the stand where I could use drain water to fill coral prop, hospital, or QT tanks

Is Closed Loop a dead concept now that Tunze Streams and similar devices give more bang for the watt (by far)?

Hesham · 05/25/2008, 05:08 PM

Success can be had with close loop or by using instead high performance propellor powerheads like the Tunzes.

Benefit of a close loop is that there are no internal pumps in the aquarium and we also avoid the heat that can be given off internal powerheads. By choosing a high pressure external pump, you can also drive eductors with a close loop and increase flow.

The negatives of the close loop include the required plumbing work and maintenance. The external pump may also consume a lot of power if compared to a high efficient propellor driven internal pump. The close loop may also require drilling out the tank - a leak in the close loop will empty the tank to the lowest point of the close loop.

Benefit of the Tunze or Vortech approach is less plumbing. Propellor pumps like the Tunze and Vortech are also very efficient and drive high flow at very low power levels. The Vortech also offers battery backup option. You can also move around the propellor pumps to take into account changes in aquascaping, coral growth, etc.

Negative of propellor pumps is their size and the need for a power line to enter the tank. The Vortech is an exception but costly.

Regards,

Hesham

BradsOcean · 05/25/2008, 06:08 PM

To Reef Central

Linkblaze · 05/25/2008, 06:25 PM

You should go to www.wetwebmedia.com and look at the Calfo manifold closed loop. That's how I was going to do my tank, but finally decided it was just going to be too much hassle and will be going with Vortech.

That said, your two 1.5 inch drains aren't going to be nearly enough for you to do a closed loop and a sump drain off of them. You could use BOTH of them for one or the other...one 1.5 inch drain might get you 650g (decent slow flow for a sump assuming you get your tank turnover elsewhere) per hour through your sump, but you're going to want to use at least two or even 3 in a tank that size as backup drains. Or, two 1.5 inch drains combining into a 2 inch pipe and flowing through a DART near tank level should give you 3000gph for a closed loop. That's how I was going to do it in my 150G - a total of 4 1.5 inch drains, a 1.5 inch return to a closed loop manifold and a 3/4 inch return from the sump.

As I said though, finally decided it was way too much hassle...plus the cost for the beefier pump, the extra plumbing, and power usage and the cost for those Vortechs doesn't start to look so bad. Do look at the Calfo manifold though, it's definetly a cool concept.

sjames · 05/25/2008, 06:44 PM

if your doing a bare bottom system I think a small closed loop for spraybars along the bottom would be benefical. Other than that I think propellor pumps are the way to go.

05/25/2008, 04:28 PM	#1
OCEAN SIZE BACK REEFIN' Join Date: May 2008 Location: Mother Ocean, yeah Posts: 457	Closed Loop or no ? Hey there - I'm setting up a 220g with a sump on the other side of a wall. I have 2 drain lines, and I'm considering using: * both to output to sump, but want to minimize drilling holes in this wall... * that said, considering linking them (they're 1.5") so there's only one drain tube out to sump * 1 for drain, one for closed loop, but it seems the wattage for a hammerhead or even an ocean runner VS what they give back is not very good. Power is expensive in California, and I'm trying to do this efficiently * 1 for drain, one closed off with valve but plumbed to the stand where I could use drain water to fill coral prop, hospital, or QT tanks Is Closed Loop a dead concept now that Tunze Streams and similar devices give more bang for the watt (by far)?

05/25/2008, 06:08 PM	#3
BradsOcean Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: The Island Posts: 1,173	*To Reef Central* __________________ the low cost of 3 Ramen meals a day is feeding my zoa addiction Current Tank Info: had a few small reefs in the past, researching for my future 125 :)

05/25/2008, 05:08 PM	#2
Hesham Always learning! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Montreal Posts: 115	Success can be had with close loop or by using instead high performance propellor powerheads like the Tunzes. Benefit of a close loop is that there are no internal pumps in the aquarium and we also avoid the heat that can be given off internal powerheads. By choosing a high pressure external pump, you can also drive eductors with a close loop and increase flow. The negatives of the close loop include the required plumbing work and maintenance. The external pump may also consume a lot of power if compared to a high efficient propellor driven internal pump. The close loop may also require drilling out the tank - a leak in the close loop will empty the tank to the lowest point of the close loop. Benefit of the Tunze or Vortech approach is less plumbing. Propellor pumps like the Tunze and Vortech are also very efficient and drive high flow at very low power levels. The Vortech also offers battery backup option. You can also move around the propellor pumps to take into account changes in aquascaping, coral growth, etc. Negative of propellor pumps is their size and the need for a power line to enter the tank. The Vortech is an exception but costly. Regards, Hesham

05/25/2008, 06:25 PM	#4
Linkblaze Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 327	You should go to www.wetwebmedia.com and look at the Calfo manifold closed loop. That's how I was going to do my tank, but finally decided it was just going to be too much hassle and will be going with Vortech. That said, your two 1.5 inch drains aren't going to be nearly enough for you to do a closed loop and a sump drain off of them. You could use BOTH of them for one or the other...one 1.5 inch drain might get you 650g (decent slow flow for a sump assuming you get your tank turnover elsewhere) per hour through your sump, but you're going to want to use at least two or even 3 in a tank that size as backup drains. Or, two 1.5 inch drains combining into a 2 inch pipe and flowing through a DART near tank level should give you 3000gph for a closed loop. That's how I was going to do it in my 150G - a total of 4 1.5 inch drains, a 1.5 inch return to a closed loop manifold and a 3/4 inch return from the sump. As I said though, finally decided it was way too much hassle...plus the cost for the beefier pump, the extra plumbing, and power usage and the cost for those Vortechs doesn't start to look so bad. Do look at the Calfo manifold though, it's definetly a cool concept.

05/25/2008, 06:44 PM	#5
sjames Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: PA Posts: 675	if your doing a bare bottom system I think a small closed loop for spraybars along the bottom would be benefical. Other than that I think propellor pumps are the way to go.