Im hearing about zero loss RO/DI... tell me more

areze · 07/10/2008, 09:01 AM

ok, I realize its not really 0 loss, somehow uses a booster pump to raise pressure so you can feed the waste water back into your pipes.

what I dont understand is... how do you keep from just recirculating progressivly dirtier and dirtier water through the same loop? do you put the dirty water into... another pipe or something?

reason I ask, my tank is in the basement, there is no drain below the level of the tank, im thinking I can probably tap into a sink drain 1 floor above without too much backpressure on the unit. but if there is a good alternative...

AZDesertRat · 07/10/2008, 10:15 PM

The booster pump dumps the waste stream into the hot water heater not the cold side. It has serious limitations, one is it is only capable of maybe 15 GPD due to limitations on hot water usage and expansion. Another is it raises the TDS significantly which is not good in my book, I paid good money for a water softener and RO to clan my water, why would I dump 125% of the original TDS back into my plumbing.
If waste is an issue take a look at Spectrapure's MaxCap UHE 1:1 ultra high efficiency low waste system. It is the only engineered and proven low waste system on the market.

mcarroll · 07/10/2008, 10:26 PM

AZ: A water heater is like a big settling tank. Tons of stuff precipitates out during heating and just sitting there idle. (I know at EOL tanks are often full of stuff!) This factor is the only thing I can figure that would make it feasible to plumb that waste water back into the water heater. It's possible it might incrementally shorten the life of your water heater (19 instead of 20 years?), or you may want to do maintenance on it more frequently, but I wonder if the quality of the water output from your heater would really be measurably different? In any event, it's never recommended to cook with or drink the water from your water heater anyway, so I'd guess there should be almost no health risk (at least) to doing this either way.

areze: Maybe a call to Spectrapure or filterguys is in order?

AZDesertRat · 07/10/2008, 10:33 PM

Concentrating the waste is not a good idea for plumbing fixtures or piping as well as the added load it puts on soaps and shampoos.

areze · 07/11/2008, 08:47 AM

my water isnt all that terrible, I run about 35-40 out of the tap. infact based on some posts, I should probably be jumping with joy, I could skip the RO/DI and still have cleaner water than some others

georgia is in a never ending drought however, but 15gpd will never cut it either. Ill take a peek at the spectrapure.

AZDesertRat · 07/11/2008, 09:17 AM

If we could only be that lucky! I don't know what it is about the water in the Atlanta area, it seems to be fantastic as far as TDS goes. Not like the Colorado or Salt Rivers in AZ, I average over 800 TDS and parts of Phoenix are 1200-1500!

areze · 07/11/2008, 09:29 AM

900$!!!!!!!!!

ok, that is SOOO out of the picture.

I paid 1000$ for a 240g tank and all the equipment it needs... lol. jeez, 900$ this thing should produce water out of thin air...

Harry_Fish · 07/11/2008, 11:15 AM

Here is a thought how about using the waste water to flush the toilet?

areze · 07/11/2008, 11:44 AM

does that mean I have to eat some mexican food immediatly prior to doing water changes?

Thefilterguys · 07/11/2008, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by areze
900$!!!!!!!!!

ok, that is SOOO out of the picture.

I paid 1000$ for a 240g tank and all the equipment it needs... lol. jeez, 900$ this thing should produce water out of thin air...

Go to a dual membrane system nowhere near that cost and with proper pressure of 65 psi or higher the waste is under 2 to1 down to 1.25 to1.

No waste systems are kind of a scam and as mentioned are for very low volume no room in the water heater can't make water or down the waste line.

Jim

bergzy · 07/12/2008, 12:40 AM

i have used the watts zero waste ro unit.

Zero Waste RO

does it produce zero waste? yes. does it pump waste water through the hot water line? yes. did it increase the tds going into my ro unit? i dont know. i never tested it.

yes, the output is very small. maybe 20gpd max. it is very frustrating if you have a tank over 50g to make rodi water for water changes as it will take an eternity and a half to make the rodi water.

i would only recommend this unit for household use and not for medium to large reef tanks. why? because the pressure pump broke on me...twice. the unit, i dont think the unit was ever intended for aquarium use...serious aquarium use anyway.

this 'may' be coincidental but my older water heater broke (leaked) about 4 or so months after using the unit (for full reef mind you). i installed an on demand water heater (takagi) and didnt have problems after that.

soooo...

zero waste? great idea but i would use it for residential drinking water use only.

rkelman · 07/12/2008, 04:16 AM

"Here is a thought how about using the waste water to flush the toilet?"

I think this is an awesome idea. Because the water could continuously flow without interruption. Especially for those of us with low GPM wells. Unfortunately my bathroom is on the second floor and my reef tank is on the first.. I suppose I could put the RO system in the bathroom and pipe it to my holding tank in the basement..

Thefilterguys · 07/12/2008, 09:42 AM

Bravo!! It could not have been said better. I should have said scam for aquarium use and they are not pushing their product for that we just have wishful thinkers.

Jim

Quote:

Originally posted by bergzy
i have used the watts zero waste ro unit.

Zero Waste RO

does it produce zero waste? yes. does it pump waste water through the hot water line? yes. did it increase the tds going into my ro unit? i dont know. i never tested it.

yes, the output is very small. maybe 20gpd max. it is very frustrating if you have a tank over 50g to make rodi water for water changes as it will take an eternity and a half to make the rodi water.

i would only recommend this unit for household use and not for medium to large reef tanks. why? because the pressure pump broke on me...twice. the unit, i dont think the unit was ever intended for aquarium use...serious aquarium use anyway.

this 'may' be coincidental but my older water heater broke (leaked) about 4 or so months after using the unit (for full reef mind you). i installed an on demand water heater (takagi) and didnt have problems after that.

soooo...

zero waste? great idea but i would use it for residential drinking water use only.

Harry_Fish · 07/12/2008, 12:12 PM

I'm thinking about putting a toilet in my basement.

I figured If I used a 55 gal drum to catch the waste water from
the RO unit and use that to feed the flush tank on the toilet

If you set it up so with a float valve in the drum so if the water
got low in the drum it would bring in some fresh water so it would
always have flush water.

Then add a drain at the top so if the drum filled up all the way it
would drain the excess off (so it does not over flow) you should be all set.

areze · 07/12/2008, 01:59 PM

lol

*waits for the day the TOTM shows a picture of his toilet in his fishroom for water savings.

nothing like relaxing in the back office, reading a sunday paper, and watching the fish go by.

areze · 07/12/2008, 02:03 PM

is this where we are inevitably going to land?

NanoReefWanabe · 07/12/2008, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by areze
is this where we are inevitably going to land?

sweet setup where do i get one?

sjm817 · 07/12/2008, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NanoReefWanabe
sweet setup where do i get one?

http://www.fishnflush.com/distributors.html

Lifes A Beach · 07/13/2008, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Thefilterguys
Go to a dual membrane system nowhere near that cost and with proper pressure of 65 psi or higher the waste is under 2 to1 down to 1.25 to1.
Jim

This sounds like a great alternative if the ratios are correct and alot cheaper....right, Jim??? Can the waste water be used to water the lawn or top off the pool? I've read there might be an increased amount of brine water and not sure if that would be good for a lawn or pool. Can someone clarify this? Thanks!

AZDesertRat · 07/13/2008, 10:27 AM

Dual membrane systems are a viable option IF and thats a big if, you have fairly low to normal TDS tap water to begin with. These have been around for years and years and all the vendors supply them. The problem with high TDS waters is you concentrate the TDS fed to the second membrane and this causes premature failure of the membrane. I ran a dual membrane system here in Phoenix but still kept my waste ratio close to normal and it was producing 240 GPD, even with a tap water TDS that averaged 835.

07/10/2008, 09:01 AM	#1
areze Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 4,048	Im hearing about zero loss RO/DI... tell me more ok, I realize its not really 0 loss, somehow uses a booster pump to raise pressure so you can feed the waste water back into your pipes. what I dont understand is... how do you keep from just recirculating progressivly dirtier and dirtier water through the same loop? do you put the dirty water into... another pipe or something? reason I ask, my tank is in the basement, there is no drain below the level of the tank, im thinking I can probably tap into a sink drain 1 floor above without too much backpressure on the unit. but if there is a good alternative... __________________ current tanks:240g of wallet draining capacity.

07/11/2008, 08:47 AM	#5
areze Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 4,048	my water isnt all that terrible, I run about 35-40 out of the tap. infact based on some posts, I should probably be jumping with joy, I could skip the RO/DI and still have cleaner water than some others georgia is in a never ending drought however, but 15gpd will never cut it either. Ill take a peek at the spectrapure. __________________ current tanks:240g of wallet draining capacity.

07/11/2008, 09:29 AM	#7
areze Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 4,048	900$!!!!!!!!! ok, that is SOOO out of the picture. I paid 1000$ for a 240g tank and all the equipment it needs... lol. jeez, 900$ this thing should produce water out of thin air... __________________ current tanks:240g of wallet draining capacity.

07/11/2008, 11:44 AM	#9
areze Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 4,048	does that mean I have to eat some mexican food immediatly prior to doing water changes? __________________ current tanks:240g of wallet draining capacity.

07/12/2008, 12:40 AM	#11
bergzy Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: OC CA USA Posts: 5,299	i have used the watts zero waste ro unit. Zero Waste RO does it produce zero waste? yes. does it pump waste water through the hot water line? yes. did it increase the tds going into my ro unit? i dont know. i never tested it. yes, the output is very small. maybe 20gpd max. it is very frustrating if you have a tank over 50g to make rodi water for water changes as it will take an eternity and a half to make the rodi water. i would only recommend this unit for household use and not for medium to large reef tanks. why? because the pressure pump broke on me...twice. the unit, i dont think the unit was ever intended for aquarium use...serious aquarium use anyway. this 'may' be coincidental but my older water heater broke (leaked) about 4 or so months after using the unit (for full reef mind you). i installed an on demand water heater (takagi) and didnt have problems after that. soooo... zero waste? great idea but i would use it for residential drinking water use only. __________________ The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule it. H.L. Mencken Ben. Current Tank Info: 180g sps, 90g cube clam biotope.

07/10/2008, 10:15 PM	#2
AZDesertRat Moved On Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: NW Phoenix Posts: 16,621	The booster pump dumps the waste stream into the hot water heater not the cold side. It has serious limitations, one is it is only capable of maybe 15 GPD due to limitations on hot water usage and expansion. Another is it raises the TDS significantly which is not good in my book, I paid good money for a water softener and RO to clan my water, why would I dump 125% of the original TDS back into my plumbing. If waste is an issue take a look at Spectrapure's MaxCap UHE 1:1 ultra high efficiency low waste system. It is the only engineered and proven low waste system on the market.

07/10/2008, 10:26 PM	#3
mcarroll Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Northern VA Posts: 327	AZ: A water heater is like a big settling tank. Tons of stuff precipitates out during heating and just sitting there idle. (I know at EOL tanks are often full of stuff!) This factor is the only thing I can figure that would make it feasible to plumb that waste water back into the water heater. It's possible it might incrementally shorten the life of your water heater (19 instead of 20 years?), or you may want to do maintenance on it more frequently, but I wonder if the quality of the water output from your heater would really be measurably different? In any event, it's never recommended to cook with or drink the water from your water heater anyway, so I'd guess there should be almost no health risk (at least) to doing this either way. areze: Maybe a call to Spectrapure or filterguys is in order?

07/10/2008, 10:33 PM	#4
AZDesertRat Moved On Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: NW Phoenix Posts: 16,621	Concentrating the waste is not a good idea for plumbing fixtures or piping as well as the added load it puts on soaps and shampoos.

07/11/2008, 09:17 AM	#6
AZDesertRat Moved On Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: NW Phoenix Posts: 16,621	If we could only be that lucky! I don't know what it is about the water in the Atlanta area, it seems to be fantastic as far as TDS goes. Not like the Colorado or Salt Rivers in AZ, I average over 800 TDS and parts of Phoenix are 1200-1500!

07/11/2008, 11:15 AM	#8
Harry_Fish Moved On Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Liverpool, NY Posts: 1,461	Here is a thought how about using the waste water to flush the toilet?

07/12/2008, 04:16 AM	#12
rkelman Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Belleville, Ontario Canada Posts: 3,438	"Here is a thought how about using the waste water to flush the toilet?" I think this is an awesome idea. Because the water could continuously flow without interruption. Especially for those of us with low GPM wells. Unfortunately my bathroom is on the second floor and my reef tank is on the first.. I suppose I could put the RO system in the bathroom and pipe it to my holding tank in the basement..

07/12/2008, 12:12 PM	#14
Harry_Fish Moved On Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Liverpool, NY Posts: 1,461	I'm thinking about putting a toilet in my basement. I figured If I used a 55 gal drum to catch the waste water from the RO unit and use that to feed the flush tank on the toilet If you set it up so with a float valve in the drum so if the water got low in the drum it would bring in some fresh water so it would always have flush water. Then add a drain at the top so if the drum filled up all the way it would drain the excess off (so it does not over flow) you should be all set.

07/12/2008, 01:59 PM	#15
areze Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 4,048	lol *waits for the day the TOTM shows a picture of his toilet in his fishroom for water savings. nothing like relaxing in the back office, reading a sunday paper, and watching the fish go by. __________________ current tanks:240g of wallet draining capacity.

07/12/2008, 02:03 PM	#16
areze Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 4,048	is this where we are inevitably going to land? __________________ current tanks:240g of wallet draining capacity.

07/13/2008, 10:27 AM	#20
AZDesertRat Moved On Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: NW Phoenix Posts: 16,621	Dual membrane systems are a viable option IF and thats a big if, you have fairly low to normal TDS tap water to begin with. These have been around for years and years and all the vendors supply them. The problem with high TDS waters is you concentrate the TDS fed to the second membrane and this causes premature failure of the membrane. I ran a dual membrane system here in Phoenix but still kept my waste ratio close to normal and it was producing 240 GPD, even with a tap water TDS that averaged 835.