Newbie needs advice

shandoli · 07/24/2008, 08:03 AM

I am absolutely fascinated with aquariums and I took the plunge yesterday, af many years of desiring one.

Initially I thought that I wud go for freshwater but then I saw a marine setup and now I am torn inside. I want a saltwater setup.

I picked up a rio 180 from ebay for 80 pounds ( 160 us dollars) . Along with the tank I got the following:

Fluval 205 external filter
Gravel
Lots of stones and plants

Now , the problem is, I am a little short on cash (typical student) SO i have a few questions

- Is the rio 180 ne good for a marine setup? its 47 US gallons i think

- Whats the minimum I need to run a marine setup as cheaply as possible?

- I dont mind going fish only with some LR initially.but Are corals really expensive?

If you were to give advice to a total newbie who wanted the best balance between cost, somewhat low mantauinence and someone who is not going to go all out in the future, what wud you recommend he do to his 180 to get a good compromise between cost, looks, and ease of mantainece?

I would really appreciate your thoughts.

Eagles · 07/24/2008, 08:59 AM

Coming from someone also on a student's budget I would go with a fish only if you're a beginner. It really starts to get expensive if you're looking into getting quality equipment for a reef tank.

When you factor in protein skimmer, powerful lighting, RO/DI unit, refractometer, the LR, power heads and the like it really gets pricey. Most of those you don't have to worry to much about in a fish only tank, plus you can use your external filter for filtration without having to worry to much about the nitrates.

I was seriously thinking about going FO when I was first setting up my 4 foot tank. I did in the end decide to go deeper in the hobby with a reef tank and it's been very rewarding experience thus far, but I'm certainly seeing the hole it's been burning in my pocket! D=

IslandCrow · 07/24/2008, 09:00 AM

The first bit of advice I'd give is to start here: http://www.reefcentral.com/modules.p...showpage&pid=1

I don't think marine tanks are significantly harder than freshwater, but they are quite a bit more expensive on average. A fish only setup would definitely be the cheapest. There are plenty of inexpensive corals, but when you factor in their lighting and water quality needs, you end up spending a good amount of cash on the equipment needed to support them.

As for your specific questions:
- The only Rio 180 I'm familiar with is a pump/powerhead. I think you're talking about a 180 liter tank here. If it can hold water, it should be just fine for a marine setup.
- You'll get more information in the link provided, but I'd say the absolute minimum you need that you haven't already mentioned is lighting (whatever you have is fine for fish only), 1 lb of live rock for every gallon of tank volume (anywhere from $4 to $10 per pound), Powerheads for water movement (around $20+), a protein skimmer (anywhere from $50 to $200), and sand (unless you decide to go bare bottom).

I'd suggest you don't use the gravel or the stones (live rock is more porous than freshwater rocks). Obviously, the plants won't do you any good in a saltwater setup. You can save some money on live rock by using some dry or base rock. It will become live over time. I'd suggest going with 50% live rock and 50% base rock. For substrate, I'd suggest using sand. Don't worry about getting "live sand". The stuff sold in bags probably doesn't have much that's actually alive. Just buy some dry reef sand. Most people use aragonite, a calcium based sand that's usually found around natural reefs.

A protein skimmer isn't absolutely necessary, but I'd highly recommend it. It's going to be your best method of mechanical filtration, so if you splurge anywhere, do it here.

Lastly, you may want to think about a sump. It's usually just another tank below your display tank where you keep all of your equipment (skimmer, heaters, other filtration). It also increases your total water volume, allowing for an overall more stable system. You can certainly run a tank without it, but if you're going to do it, it's always easier to add before you set up your tank.

Anyway, if you want to go saltwater (and I think you'll thank yourself later if you do), take your time and make sure you have a clear plan before you begin. It's so much easier to do it right the first time. Many people quit the hobby early on because they started off on the wrong foot. Once you finish reading the info in the link I provided, give us your next group of questions.

Sk8r · 07/24/2008, 09:07 AM

Definitely read the * threads at the top of the Newbie forum: they're the condensed straight info on how to set up and run, and that will tell you bundles about your alternative.

A middle ground for the impecunious student is a fish/mushroom/buttons/green star polyp tank. These kinds of corals (if you get the un-pricey discosoma mushrooms and plain brown buttons (glow green under actinic light) grow like crazy, multiply to cover all your rocks, and actually help with filtration if you maintain a modest fish load (smallish size, no heavy meat eaters) and moderately mind your ph, salinity and alkalinity. Two or three green or purple discosomas or a little thumb-sized piece of green star polyp will parlay into a tank-covering mass inside two years with good husbandry. Some fish stores will give you store credit for trading them rocks with some of these polyps on them.

BurntOutReefer · 07/24/2008, 09:47 AM

"Obviously, the plants won't do you any good in a saltwater setup. "

?????? please explain

otrlynn · 07/24/2008, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BurntOutReefer
"Obviously, the plants won't do you any good in a saltwater setup. "

?????? please explain

I'm thinking IslandCrow made the assumption that the "plants" and stones referred to by the OP were from a freshwater tank???

Nano Chris · 07/24/2008, 10:11 AM

Welcome!

To Reef Central

nikon187 · 07/24/2008, 11:46 AM

plants and stones are more likely from old freshwater..so you won't need those. Figure $30-$50 per gallon to get the tank going. Cheap and saltwater don't go together..

All would bank at leas $1000 for a 47g but probably much more.

shandoli · 07/24/2008, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by nikon187
plants and stones are more likely from old freshwater..so you won't need those. Figure $30-$50 per gallon to get the tank going. Cheap and saltwater don't go together..

All would bank at leas $1000 for a 47g but probably much more.

Damn....did i mention I was a student?

Most I am prepared to stretch is 200 dollars.

I really appreciate everyones advice.

I dont like the idea of a sump. Do not ask why.

I do not have an issues buying a protein skimmer.

Playa-1 · 07/24/2008, 12:12 PM

Hi Shandoli,

I share your fascination with Saltwater tanks.

Rule Number one is to research before you make a purchase. It sounds like you already broke rule number 1

Your in the right place. ReefCentral is an excellent tool that you can use. I would suggest that you Start out by going with a Fish Only with LiveRock. It will be less expensive to operate and maintain. Then after you get comfortable and some extra money to burn then you can upgrade your lighting and get into corals if you choose.

The best advise I can give to you is to pick up a copy of
"The conscientious Marine Aquarist" by Robert Fenner
and read it cover to cover, before you do anything else. That will give you a good understanding of the basics. One thing you will find in the hobby is there are many different ways of doing things. This book helps you to understand the pros and cons of many of the different methods. It will also help you to separate fact from fiction.

The sticky threads on this site are loaded with gr8 information as well but in my opinion are not a substitute for a couple of good books on the subject. They compliment the books and even expand on the information but not a substitute.

Check out this link:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-01/tips/index.php

And

IslandCrow · 07/24/2008, 08:12 PM

Yes, I did assume the plants and rocks were for a freshwater setup, especially since there aren't too many marine plants. A simple saltwater setup doesn't have to be horrendously expensive, especially if you're prepared for a little "do it yourself". The sump definitely isn't a necessity. I started out without a sump myself, and added one later. The live rock is probably going to be one of your biggest expenses. The other big ticket items you want to figure in is the skimmer, and though I didn't mention it before, an RO/DI water purification unit. The latter is not essential, but there are a lot of problems associated with using tap water, and buying bottled water gets expensive very quickly. A good RO/DI unit will usually run you at least $100.

In other words, staying under that $200 budget is going to be difficult, though not necessarily impossible. I started off with an Aquarium Systems (the guys who brought you Instant Ocean salt) Protein skimmer that probably cost me around $50. Many local fish stores sell or even give away RO or RO/DI water, which would allow you to delay getting your own purifier. Of course, you could also go with tap water, but I wouldn't suggest it. Live rock can be ordered online, and that might save you some money. Also be sure to check out Ebay and Craig's list for people selling used equipment.

07/24/2008, 08:03 AM	#1
shandoli Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2	Newbie needs advice I am absolutely fascinated with aquariums and I took the plunge yesterday, af many years of desiring one. Initially I thought that I wud go for freshwater but then I saw a marine setup and now I am torn inside. I want a saltwater setup. I picked up a rio 180 from ebay for 80 pounds ( 160 us dollars) . Along with the tank I got the following: Fluval 205 external filter Gravel Lots of stones and plants Now , the problem is, I am a little short on cash (typical student) SO i have a few questions - Is the rio 180 ne good for a marine setup? its 47 US gallons i think - Whats the minimum I need to run a marine setup as cheaply as possible? - I dont mind going fish only with some LR initially.but Are corals really expensive? If you were to give advice to a total newbie who wanted the best balance between cost, somewhat low mantauinence and someone who is not going to go all out in the future, what wud you recommend he do to his 180 to get a good compromise between cost, looks, and ease of mantainece? I would really appreciate your thoughts.

07/24/2008, 08:59 AM	#2
Eagles Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Perth, Australia Posts: 29	Coming from someone also on a student's budget I would go with a fish only if you're a beginner. It really starts to get expensive if you're looking into getting quality equipment for a reef tank. When you factor in protein skimmer, powerful lighting, RO/DI unit, refractometer, the LR, power heads and the like it really gets pricey. Most of those you don't have to worry to much about in a fish only tank, plus you can use your external filter for filtration without having to worry to much about the nitrates. I was seriously thinking about going FO when I was first setting up my 4 foot tank. I did in the end decide to go deeper in the hobby with a reef tank and it's been very rewarding experience thus far, but I'm certainly seeing the hole it's been burning in my pocket! D= Last edited by Eagles; 07/24/2008 at 09:38 AM.

07/24/2008, 09:00 AM	#3
IslandCrow Reef Monkey Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Rockledge, Fl Posts: 5,759	The first bit of advice I'd give is to start here: http://www.reefcentral.com/modules.p...showpage&pid=1 I don't think marine tanks are significantly harder than freshwater, but they are quite a bit more expensive on average. A fish only setup would definitely be the cheapest. There are plenty of inexpensive corals, but when you factor in their lighting and water quality needs, you end up spending a good amount of cash on the equipment needed to support them. As for your specific questions: - The only Rio 180 I'm familiar with is a pump/powerhead. I think you're talking about a 180 liter tank here. If it can hold water, it should be just fine for a marine setup. - You'll get more information in the link provided, but I'd say the absolute minimum you need that you haven't already mentioned is lighting (whatever you have is fine for fish only), 1 lb of live rock for every gallon of tank volume (anywhere from $4 to $10 per pound), Powerheads for water movement (around $20+), a protein skimmer (anywhere from $50 to $200), and sand (unless you decide to go bare bottom). I'd suggest you don't use the gravel or the stones (live rock is more porous than freshwater rocks). Obviously, the plants won't do you any good in a saltwater setup. You can save some money on live rock by using some dry or base rock. It will become live over time. I'd suggest going with 50% live rock and 50% base rock. For substrate, I'd suggest using sand. Don't worry about getting "live sand". The stuff sold in bags probably doesn't have much that's actually alive. Just buy some dry reef sand. Most people use aragonite, a calcium based sand that's usually found around natural reefs. A protein skimmer isn't absolutely necessary, but I'd highly recommend it. It's going to be your best method of mechanical filtration, so if you splurge anywhere, do it here. Lastly, you may want to think about a sump. It's usually just another tank below your display tank where you keep all of your equipment (skimmer, heaters, other filtration). It also increases your total water volume, allowing for an overall more stable system. You can certainly run a tank without it, but if you're going to do it, it's always easier to add before you set up your tank. Anyway, if you want to go saltwater (and I think you'll thank yourself later if you do), take your time and make sure you have a clear plan before you begin. It's so much easier to do it right the first time. Many people quit the hobby early on because they started off on the wrong foot. Once you finish reading the info in the link I provided, give us your next group of questions. __________________ All opinions in the above message should be taken with 35 ppt salt. -Mike C. Current Tank Info: I have a reef screen saver on my phone, does that count?

07/24/2008, 09:07 AM	#4
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Definitely read the * threads at the top of the Newbie forum: they're the condensed straight info on how to set up and run, and that will tell you bundles about your alternative. A middle ground for the impecunious student is a fish/mushroom/buttons/green star polyp tank. These kinds of corals (if you get the un-pricey discosoma mushrooms and plain brown buttons (glow green under actinic light) grow like crazy, multiply to cover all your rocks, and actually help with filtration if you maintain a modest fish load (smallish size, no heavy meat eaters) and moderately mind your ph, salinity and alkalinity. Two or three green or purple discosomas or a little thumb-sized piece of green star polyp will parlay into a tank-covering mass inside two years with good husbandry. Some fish stores will give you store credit for trading them rocks with some of these polyps on them. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

07/24/2008, 10:11 AM	#7
Nano Chris Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 2,758	*Welcome!* *To Reef Central* __________________ Chris ------- 34 Gallon Red Sea Max 130! Setup (Just got back into the hobby) Current Tank Info: 34 Gallon RedSeaMax!

07/24/2008, 09:47 AM	#5
BurntOutReefer Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Granada Hills Posts: 4,376	"Obviously, the plants won't do you any good in a saltwater setup. " ?????? please explain

07/24/2008, 11:46 AM	#8
nikon187 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Edmonton Alberta Posts: 4,717	plants and stones are more likely from old freshwater..so you won't need those. Figure $30-$50 per gallon to get the tank going. Cheap and saltwater don't go together.. All would bank at leas $1000 for a 47g but probably much more. __________________ ----------------- Current Tanks: New 210 custom 84 x 24 x 24, 60g sump, SWC 250 extreme with bubble blaster 5000, 2 vortech mp40, 2 vortech mp10, 12 T5, Water blaster 5000, warner marine bio pellets, 60g clownfish cube, red carpet anemone with a 25g sump,SRO octopus 1000sss, 250w radium, lumenarc large.

07/24/2008, 12:12 PM	#10
Playa-1 Moved On Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Laguna Niguel, CA Posts: 7,497	Hi Shandoli, I share your fascination with Saltwater tanks. Rule Number one is to research before you make a purchase. It sounds like you already broke rule number 1 Your in the right place. ReefCentral is an excellent tool that you can use. I would suggest that you Start out by going with a Fish Only with LiveRock. It will be less expensive to operate and maintain. Then after you get comfortable and some extra money to burn then you can upgrade your lighting and get into corals if you choose. The best advise I can give to you is to pick up a copy of "The conscientious Marine Aquarist" by Robert Fenner and read it cover to cover, before you do anything else. That will give you a good understanding of the basics. One thing you will find in the hobby is there are many different ways of doing things. This book helps you to understand the pros and cons of many of the different methods. It will also help you to separate fact from fiction. The sticky threads on this site are loaded with gr8 information as well but in my opinion are not a substitute for a couple of good books on the subject. They compliment the books and even expand on the information but not a substitute. Check out this link: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-01/tips/index.php And

07/24/2008, 08:12 PM	#11
IslandCrow Reef Monkey Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Rockledge, Fl Posts: 5,759	Yes, I did assume the plants and rocks were for a freshwater setup, especially since there aren't too many marine plants. A simple saltwater setup doesn't have to be horrendously expensive, especially if you're prepared for a little "do it yourself". The sump definitely isn't a necessity. I started out without a sump myself, and added one later. The live rock is probably going to be one of your biggest expenses. The other big ticket items you want to figure in is the skimmer, and though I didn't mention it before, an RO/DI water purification unit. The latter is not essential, but there are a lot of problems associated with using tap water, and buying bottled water gets expensive very quickly. A good RO/DI unit will usually run you at least $100. In other words, staying under that $200 budget is going to be difficult, though not necessarily impossible. I started off with an Aquarium Systems (the guys who brought you Instant Ocean salt) Protein skimmer that probably cost me around $50. Many local fish stores sell or even give away RO or RO/DI water, which would allow you to delay getting your own purifier. Of course, you could also go with tap water, but I wouldn't suggest it. Live rock can be ordered online, and that might save you some money. Also be sure to check out Ebay and Craig's list for people selling used equipment. __________________ All opinions in the above message should be taken with 35 ppt salt. -Mike C. Current Tank Info: I have a reef screen saver on my phone, does that count?