Have a few general questions..any takers?

sammyinafrica · 07/25/2008, 06:32 PM

Hello,

I have been researching Marine/reef aquariums for quite a while. (I have kept many successful freshwater tanks inteh past) My wife and I desire to make our down stairs living area into a "peaceful quite" place that we can talk and entertain company. We have tons of room so we are looking into a 100+ gallon tank.

At this piont we are leaning towards a reef tank. But feel overwhelmed by all the SUMPS, Skimmers, filters, lights, ect...

Any advice on size/brand of tank, skimmer, etc...

Thanks!

DAKOOP · 07/25/2008, 06:46 PM

WOW!
Why didn't you just ask what the meaning of life is, that would have been an easier question.
What kind of "stuff" are you wanting to have in this tank?

Playa-1 · 07/25/2008, 06:51 PM

Welcome to Reef Central

Hi,

I would suggest that you get a ReefReady Glass Tank. The size depends on the livestock that you would like to keep. I like All-Glass and Oceanic myself but there are other good mfg's out there as well. Most of your equipment will be determined by what your goals are for the tank. I would suggest an Acrylic customized tank for the sump/fuge. Euro-Reef or Octopus Protein Skimmers are my favorites in a reasonable price range. I like Eheim pumps for the dependable performance and quiet operation.

Check out these links for additional info:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-01/tips/index.php

www.melevsreef.com

www.dursostandpipes.com

drparker · 07/25/2008, 06:52 PM

To Reef Central

You've come to the right place.

I was into freshwater before but find the reef so much more rewarding. It does take more care and a lot more money though.

Do you want to buy everything ready to go or do you want to save some money and do some DIY projects?

Have you decide what kind of corals you want to keep? This will determine the rest of the equipment you need.

Find a local reef club in your area. They can tell you what stores are good and help you get everything running correctly.

What ever your told double check it here, there are enough experienced reefers on here to keep you out of trouble.

Go slow, nothing good happens quickly in this hobby.

phenom5 · 07/25/2008, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by drparker

To Reef Central

Find a local reef club in your area. They can tell you what stores are good and help you get everything running correctly.

Not to mention local clubs are a great place to get used equipment, and livestock for a really good price.

As for the original (loaded) question...I'd say your best bet is to start by determining the dimensions of the tank you want for the room in question. Then plan from there. It's a bit of a catch-22...the size of your tank/ equipment selection determines what you can keep, and what you want to keep determines the size of the tank/ equipment you need.

You may want to check out LiveAquaria (just one example of a good online vendor) to see what kind of fish, corals, and inverts catch your eye. That way you can determine what you want to keep, and go from there to select you equipment.

Hope this helps.

sammyinafrica · 07/25/2008, 09:45 PM

Thanks for all of your replies. They are helpful.

Let me give you some more info....(and the meaning of life...in case Dakoop is reading.....

I think I have decided on a 125-180 gallon tank. I would like to keep fairly small fish "reef friendly" all under 7-8 inches. I like the colorful shrimp, crabs, and gobies (sp?).

DRPARKER (or anyone else)... What did you mean when you said that a marien aquarium takes a lot more care? Is that to get it established, keep it maintained???

Oh...I am very handy and would like to DIY as much as I can.

Thanks again... GOOD STUFF!

Sk8r · 07/25/2008, 10:54 PM

If you have a basement, it's easy to drill 2 small holes through the floor and put all the support gear downstairs, so there will be no pump noise or such in the upstairs.
Much of the maintenance (addition of calcium/buffer/fresh water [to make up evap] and monitoring [temp, ph]) can be done by automations...but you must test weekly (takes about 15 minutes) and maintaining a fuge (planted tank) inline with, say, your sump (where the skimmer, heater, and pumps are) will minimize algae-scraping: if you have healthy fuge plants, it takes up all the stuff that fertilizes algae in your display.
Reading the two * threads at the top of the newbie forum will provide you the condensed wisdom of months of newbie forum questions.

cdbias2 · 07/26/2008, 05:34 AM

What are you planning to spend for the initial set-up?
For 100g I would start considering the $4000 range.

sammyinafrica · 07/26/2008, 07:03 AM

I plan on placing the tank with its back against the garage wall. Would it be worth while to drill a few holes in the wall and place the sump in there?

sammyinafrica · 07/26/2008, 07:06 AM

$4000?? Is this for an all knew set up or can i reduce the cost by searching the want adds, craigslist, ect....Any things to watch out for/ Avoid? Take advantage of in the used market?

shuguley · 07/26/2008, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sammyinafrica
$4000?? Is this for an all knew set up or can i reduce the cost by searching the want adds, craigslist, ect....Any things to watch out for/ Avoid? Take advantage of in the used market?

You have chosen an EXPENSIVE hobby. I've spent $1500 - $2000 getting started with a 55, so for a 100+, $4000 sounds possible. I quit keeping track of money because it got depressing. Obviously, if you can buy some used stuff, it will save you some money. I didn't buy anything used though, because I worry about how the previous owner may have treated or used equipment. Did they use copper? Can you trust them if they say they didn't?

But nobody is going to be able to give you all the answers in one thread, you need to do A LOT of reading and reefcentral is a fantastic resource, and all the questions you have, have probably been asked a 100 times over by others, so just browse and search the forums for awhile, and if you can't find an answer, then ask a question. You can buy books if you want, but why bother when you can find all the same info online for free. Good luck and happy spending, if work offers you overtime, take it, you'll need the money.

SteveJakubiec · 07/26/2008, 07:57 AM

I'm going to be getting a 120g Tank sometime this year-next year, and equiptment alone (No tank/stand) to run it properly, it'll be around 4000$. I'm only 14, so I'm probably going to get a job, or two as Playa suggested.

drparker · 07/26/2008, 08:16 AM

A successful freshwater tank once up and running requires feeding, cleaning a filter, the tank and water changes. Forget about the FW tank and only feed it for several months with no other maintenance and that's no big deal. SW is much less forgiving of neglect than a FW system is. Things can go downhill much quicker in SW than they will in FW if neglected.

With salt water you have many more pieces of equipment that need regular maintenance and monitoring. I had two canister filters on my 125g cichlid tanks, I have 8 different pumps on my 75g reef. You need to be aware of Ph, salinity, Calcium, alkalinity and Magnesium levels. Once you get your SW tank stabilized and add a computer controller this becomes much easier. At first this can seem daunting to a newbie. My 75g and 56g reefs require a little more time to maintain properly than my cichlid tanks that consisted of 7 tanks and total water volume of 550g.

Feeding can be as simple as FW or might require the hand feeding of several corals.

Yes, buying used and doing DIY can save you tons of money. But going cheap will cost you more with upgrades and replacements later, I learned this the hard way. $4000 is not the high side number. I would say for 180g reef system capable of handling SPS corals it's on the low side and would require some purchases of used equipment and DIY projects.

DIY sumps and fuges can save you a ton of money and allow you to have a better designed solution than any of the big name commercial products I've seen.

My next tank will be against the garage wall and the sump etc will be out in the garage. It will make maintenance easier. But you have to be aware of extreme temps and gas exchange of toxic fumes etc.

With all that being said I love my reefs and find that my reef tanks are a vastly more rewarding hobby than the 7 cichlid tanks I used to have.

tbar · 07/26/2008, 09:18 AM

You can drop the price of initial setup dramatically buy getting a used system off of the seller forum on here or Craigslist or newspaper add etc. People are always getting out of the hobby for various reasons like moving, birth of a child, divorce, job situation etc. You can easily get great deals for 1/4- 1/3 of the price someone has invested. Folks usually prefer to sell everything to one person and get it over with then to go through the hassle of selling parts of their systems to ten different people. Depending on your location (rural vs metro) will effect your opportunities for a great bargain. I would check into it if money is a concern, I wish I had and probably a lot of others too.

tbar · 07/26/2008, 09:25 AM

Just saw by your username your location. That might make getting a used system more of a challenge.

Brickyardpub · 07/26/2008, 10:24 AM

I started with my 75 a year ago and the one thing I can tell you.... yes, it does cost money... just accept it. If you don't have tons of it to spend initially save and do it the right way, everyone will say the same thing. I've definitely curtailed my impulse buying because of this hobby. I knew I eventually wanted a reef when i started, but being newb there is just too much information to absorb.. its been over a year and I feel I am just starting to really "get" it. I wish I would have bought a slightly better skimmer... all i have to say. One piece of advice I can give, don't sacrifice proper gear to save a buck. If you think you want to get into corals a year or two from now ( which you will cause the hobby is more addictive than narcotics ) then save up or splurge and get the expensive high output lighting you'll need, and a skimmer that will handle the "heavy load" rating on your size tank... trust me, odds are you'll get there eventually. Why have to worry about an upgrade a year from now??

Two things I would say to allow a good portion of your budget to are a good skimmer , which for your size.. I'm guessing would be close to 800-900 bucks. I don't have much experience with the skimmers listed above, but I'm looking into upgrading and my research tells me that those are good names, solid products and good customer service. Another name that pops up all the time on the lower price end is MSX. You say you are handy and if you mod these they will appearantly perform like a skimmer 3 times the price. IF you don't mind tinkering, which i don't as the hobby is therapy for me, definitely research these as well.

Lighting - look around at what people are using. Lots of people will have tank shots in their profile and as part of their signature below their post they will list gear they use. If you see someone using 3x 250w Metal Halides supplemented with Actinic T-5 Fluorescents and you like the looks... well then, you know what you're looking for at least. This is the second area I would not skimp in and the one i didn't. I chose to put more of my budget in lighting over skimming and I sorta wish I had gone into a slightly better skimmer... it would have been worth the extra 200 for me right now. There are many color choices avail. in T-5 lighting these days and seems to definitely be a solid choice.

Reading materials - The Conscientious Marine Aquarist by Robert Fenner and Aquarium Corals by Eric Borneman are two very good books to pick up. Very comprehensive. I have both and read them both 3 times... each time learning something new. About 40 a piece ( see if your library can get them )

AC - as mentioned in earlier posts... this website has been a vast resource of info for me. Experience really is the best teacher, and some of the people on here are just great at sharing theirs with us.

Live Rock & RO/DI water - these are your friends. find a good source of live rock and stuff your tank full of it. I spent the money to get good quality live rock and bought over a 100 pounds on my initial setup and I've never really had any stability issues past the inital break in algae blooms. GET AN RO/DI unit , trust me... after getting the water from my LFS for 5 months it has been one of my setups MVP's for the last year. SEE FILTER GUYS in the sponsor section.... these guys know their biz and shipping is quick with them. Just tell them your needs... they will put a unit together for you, fairly inexpensively too.

Water Changes - find a schedle that works and stick to it. I do 10% weekly and that combined with the live rock and RO/DI water from the start has minimized any water quality issues....

Lastly, develop patience... or exercise that which you have. Nothing happens quickly with Salt tanks... no really.
So yeah.... best of luck with your tank setup I hope you find it as rewarding as we all do! Cheers,

sammyinafrica · 07/26/2008, 10:32 AM

tbar,

I USED to live in Africa as a missionary. I now live in San Antonio TX. I have seen several 125+ tanks "reef ready" with various sumps, lights, ect...anywhere from $500-2000.

Money is an issue...but I am patient. I do not mind buying a tank, waiting a few months, buying the next stuff...ect...I could take me a year or more of collecting, but I am okay with that.

Since I am looking to have the same size tank as you. Could send you a personal email and we can chat that way?

tbar · 07/26/2008, 11:04 AM

PM sent

Playa-1 · 07/26/2008, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sammyinafrica
I plan on placing the tank with its back against the garage wall. Would it be worth while to drill a few holes in the wall and place the sump in there?

Overall I think a sump in a garage is a good idea, however I used to live in South Texas and I know the intense heat in the summer time. The heat in the garage could be a big deterrent to putting the sump in the garage.

Used equipment is the way to go in my opinion. Especially if your not in a big rush. You should be able to build a system for pennies on the dollar.

sammyinafrica · 07/26/2008, 12:07 PM

Brickyardpub

Great info! Thanks!

It seems that my initial dream of a reef tank will be put on hold for a "fish only tank" at the beginning....Especially if I find a good deal on a used "ready to go" salt water tank.

more reading and more research IS required.

Thanks again.

cdbias2 · 07/27/2008, 04:13 AM

I purchased a used 125g and paid a professional aquarium mover to move it to my house and initial setup. It cost me $300 and I had to supply 2 additional helpers.
That $300 was some of the best money I spent. Moving a used tank is an art in itself. I had no idea. I showed up with a 5g bucket and he showed up with 30 of them. LOL. We did not reuse any of the water.

One more point.
Myself and others feel a huge responsibility in the SW hobby to keep things alive and healthy. When something dies, it not like flushing a goldfish. As a newbie, you dont feel this, but you will in time. I think this is where alot of the buyers remorse comes from because people start thinking that maybe if they bought that other more expensive light, skimmer, etc; maybe their fish wont be suffering. Also alot of fish cost $50. If it dies you certainly aren't going to replace it and put it in the same tank without upgrades. Now what did that $50 fish cost?

sammyinafrica · 07/27/2008, 12:21 PM

cdbias2(PM sent)... I think that $50 fish was free? Right

I have looked at my local reef club (LRC???) and there are numerous posts with 100+ tanks with fish (all well within my price range)... Many of them expressed concern for their well being. You are right, at this point I am only thinking of the fish loss from a financial stand point...In time that will change I am sure, but I doubt I will name my fish

However, my wife will.

When you bought your used tank how did you replace the water in your tank? did youhave to cycle the system? Purchase IMMEDIATE upgrades?

cdbias2 · 07/27/2008, 12:41 PM

Yes immediate upgrades (better skimmer and pump) and the mover I hired was a LFS owner and we used newly made SW 100%. The 30 buckets were used for transfer of the rock wet and rinsing the rock before being placed in the tank.
My tank did cycle a little but I lost no livestock.
Since then I've only added a 20L refugium and a 70g sump.
I love my external Lifereef skimmer.

07/25/2008, 06:32 PM	#1
sammyinafrica Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 23	Have a few general questions..any takers? Hello, I have been researching Marine/reef aquariums for quite a while. (I have kept many successful freshwater tanks inteh past) My wife and I desire to make our down stairs living area into a "peaceful quite" place that we can talk and entertain company. We have tons of room so we are looking into a 100+ gallon tank. At this piont we are leaning towards a reef tank. But feel overwhelmed by all the SUMPS, Skimmers, filters, lights, ect... Any advice on size/brand of tank, skimmer, etc... Thanks!

07/25/2008, 10:54 PM	#7
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	If you have a basement, it's easy to drill 2 small holes through the floor and put all the support gear downstairs, so there will be no pump noise or such in the upstairs. Much of the maintenance (addition of calcium/buffer/fresh water [to make up evap] and monitoring [temp, ph]) can be done by automations...but you must test weekly (takes about 15 minutes) and maintaining a fuge (planted tank) inline with, say, your sump (where the skimmer, heater, and pumps are) will minimize algae-scraping: if you have healthy fuge plants, it takes up all the stuff that fertilizes algae in your display. Reading the two * threads at the top of the newbie forum will provide you the condensed wisdom of months of newbie forum questions. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

07/26/2008, 09:18 AM	#14
tbar Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: SE Virginia Posts: 452	You can drop the price of initial setup dramatically buy getting a used system off of the seller forum on here or Craigslist or newspaper add etc. People are always getting out of the hobby for various reasons like moving, birth of a child, divorce, job situation etc. You can easily get great deals for 1/4- 1/3 of the price someone has invested. Folks usually prefer to sell everything to one person and get it over with then to go through the hassle of selling parts of their systems to ten different people. Depending on your location (rural vs metro) will effect your opportunities for a great bargain. I would check into it if money is a concern, I wish I had and probably a lot of others too. __________________ I have done a 5 gal water change (about 17%) every week since week one. Hopefully having this posted here will motivate me enough to keep doing so. Current Tank Info: 33L, Two 36" 24 watt Marineland LED's, Tunze 9002 Skimmer, 2 Koralia 1's, pico hob filter for carbon.

07/26/2008, 09:25 AM	#15
tbar Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: SE Virginia Posts: 452	Just saw by your username your location. That might make getting a used system more of a challenge. __________________ I have done a 5 gal water change (about 17%) every week since week one. Hopefully having this posted here will motivate me enough to keep doing so. Current Tank Info: 33L, Two 36" 24 watt Marineland LED's, Tunze 9002 Skimmer, 2 Koralia 1's, pico hob filter for carbon.

07/26/2008, 10:24 AM	#16
Brickyardpub Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Lewiston, NY Posts: 147	I started with my 75 a year ago and the one thing I can tell you.... yes, it does cost money... just accept it. If you don't have tons of it to spend initially save and do it the right way, everyone will say the same thing. I've definitely curtailed my impulse buying because of this hobby. I knew I eventually wanted a reef when i started, but being newb there is just too much information to absorb.. its been over a year and I feel I am just starting to really "get" it. I wish I would have bought a slightly better skimmer... all i have to say. One piece of advice I can give, don't sacrifice proper gear to save a buck. If you think you want to get into corals a year or two from now ( which you will cause the hobby is more addictive than narcotics ) then save up or splurge and get the expensive high output lighting you'll need, and a skimmer that will handle the "heavy load" rating on your size tank... trust me, odds are you'll get there eventually. Why have to worry about an upgrade a year from now?? Two things I would say to allow a good portion of your budget to are a good skimmer , which for your size.. I'm guessing would be close to 800-900 bucks. I don't have much experience with the skimmers listed above, but I'm looking into upgrading and my research tells me that those are good names, solid products and good customer service. Another name that pops up all the time on the lower price end is MSX. You say you are handy and if you mod these they will appearantly perform like a skimmer 3 times the price. IF you don't mind tinkering, which i don't as the hobby is therapy for me, definitely research these as well. Lighting - look around at what people are using. Lots of people will have tank shots in their profile and as part of their signature below their post they will list gear they use. If you see someone using 3x 250w Metal Halides supplemented with Actinic T-5 Fluorescents and you like the looks... well then, you know what you're looking for at least. This is the second area I would not skimp in and the one i didn't. I chose to put more of my budget in lighting over skimming and I sorta wish I had gone into a slightly better skimmer... it would have been worth the extra 200 for me right now. There are many color choices avail. in T-5 lighting these days and seems to definitely be a solid choice. Reading materials - The Conscientious Marine Aquarist by Robert Fenner and Aquarium Corals by Eric Borneman are two very good books to pick up. Very comprehensive. I have both and read them both 3 times... each time learning something new. About 40 a piece ( see if your library can get them ) AC - as mentioned in earlier posts... this website has been a vast resource of info for me. Experience really is the best teacher, and some of the people on here are just great at sharing theirs with us. Live Rock & RO/DI water - these are your friends. find a good source of live rock and stuff your tank full of it. I spent the money to get good quality live rock and bought over a 100 pounds on my initial setup and I've never really had any stability issues past the inital break in algae blooms. GET AN RO/DI unit , trust me... after getting the water from my LFS for 5 months it has been one of my setups MVP's for the last year. SEE FILTER GUYS in the sponsor section.... these guys know their biz and shipping is quick with them. Just tell them your needs... they will put a unit together for you, fairly inexpensively too. Water Changes - find a schedle that works and stick to it. I do 10% weekly and that combined with the live rock and RO/DI water from the start has minimized any water quality issues.... Lastly, develop patience... or exercise that which you have. Nothing happens quickly with Salt tanks... no really. So yeah.... best of luck with your tank setup I hope you find it as rewarding as we all do! Cheers, __________________ steviem ~ Serenity Now ~

07/25/2008, 06:46 PM	#2
DAKOOP Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St Charles Posts: 310	WOW! Why didn't you just ask what the meaning of life is, that would have been an easier question. What kind of "stuff" are you wanting to have in this tank?

07/25/2008, 06:51 PM	#3
Playa-1 Moved On Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Laguna Niguel, CA Posts: 7,497	Welcome to Reef Central Hi, I would suggest that you get a ReefReady Glass Tank. The size depends on the livestock that you would like to keep. I like All-Glass and Oceanic myself but there are other good mfg's out there as well. Most of your equipment will be determined by what your goals are for the tank. I would suggest an Acrylic customized tank for the sump/fuge. Euro-Reef or Octopus Protein Skimmers are my favorites in a reasonable price range. I like Eheim pumps for the dependable performance and quiet operation. Check out these links for additional info: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-01/tips/index.php www.melevsreef.com www.dursostandpipes.com

07/25/2008, 06:52 PM	#4
drparker Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Palatine, IL Posts: 2,652	*To Reef Central* You've come to the right place. I was into freshwater before but find the reef so much more rewarding. It does take more care and a lot more money though. Do you want to buy everything ready to go or do you want to save some money and do some DIY projects? Have you decide what kind of corals you want to keep? This will determine the rest of the equipment you need. Find a local reef club in your area. They can tell you what stores are good and help you get everything running correctly. What ever your told double check it here, there are enough experienced reefers on here to keep you out of trouble. Go slow, nothing good happens quickly in this hobby.

07/25/2008, 09:45 PM	#6
sammyinafrica Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 23	Thanks for all of your replies. They are helpful. Let me give you some more info....(and the meaning of life...in case Dakoop is reading..... I think I have decided on a 125-180 gallon tank. I would like to keep fairly small fish "reef friendly" all under 7-8 inches. I like the colorful shrimp, crabs, and gobies (sp?). DRPARKER (or anyone else)... What did you mean when you said that a marien aquarium takes a lot more care? Is that to get it established, keep it maintained??? Oh...I am very handy and would like to DIY as much as I can. Thanks again... GOOD STUFF!

07/26/2008, 05:34 AM	#8
cdbias2 Appalachian Reef Society Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Alum Creek, WV (No more) Posts: 1,433	What are you planning to spend for the initial set-up? For 100g I would start considering the $4000 range.

07/26/2008, 07:03 AM	#9
sammyinafrica Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 23	I plan on placing the tank with its back against the garage wall. Would it be worth while to drill a few holes in the wall and place the sump in there?

07/26/2008, 07:06 AM	#10
sammyinafrica Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 23	$4000?? Is this for an all knew set up or can i reduce the cost by searching the want adds, craigslist, ect....Any things to watch out for/ Avoid? Take advantage of in the used market?

07/26/2008, 07:57 AM	#12
SteveJakubiec Moved On Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: 07508, New Jersey Posts: 843	I'm going to be getting a 120g Tank sometime this year-next year, and equiptment alone (No tank/stand) to run it properly, it'll be around 4000$. I'm only 14, so I'm probably going to get a job, or two as Playa suggested.

07/26/2008, 08:16 AM	#13
drparker Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Palatine, IL Posts: 2,652	A successful freshwater tank once up and running requires feeding, cleaning a filter, the tank and water changes. Forget about the FW tank and only feed it for several months with no other maintenance and that's no big deal. SW is much less forgiving of neglect than a FW system is. Things can go downhill much quicker in SW than they will in FW if neglected. With salt water you have many more pieces of equipment that need regular maintenance and monitoring. I had two canister filters on my 125g cichlid tanks, I have 8 different pumps on my 75g reef. You need to be aware of Ph, salinity, Calcium, alkalinity and Magnesium levels. Once you get your SW tank stabilized and add a computer controller this becomes much easier. At first this can seem daunting to a newbie. My 75g and 56g reefs require a little more time to maintain properly than my cichlid tanks that consisted of 7 tanks and total water volume of 550g. Feeding can be as simple as FW or might require the hand feeding of several corals. Yes, buying used and doing DIY can save you tons of money. But going cheap will cost you more with upgrades and replacements later, I learned this the hard way. $4000 is not the high side number. I would say for 180g reef system capable of handling SPS corals it's on the low side and would require some purchases of used equipment and DIY projects. DIY sumps and fuges can save you a ton of money and allow you to have a better designed solution than any of the big name commercial products I've seen. My next tank will be against the garage wall and the sump etc will be out in the garage. It will make maintenance easier. But you have to be aware of extreme temps and gas exchange of toxic fumes etc. With all that being said I love my reefs and find that my reef tanks are a vastly more rewarding hobby than the 7 cichlid tanks I used to have.

07/26/2008, 10:32 AM	#17
sammyinafrica Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 23	tbar, I USED to live in Africa as a missionary. I now live in San Antonio TX. I have seen several 125+ tanks "reef ready" with various sumps, lights, ect...anywhere from $500-2000. Money is an issue...but I am patient. I do not mind buying a tank, waiting a few months, buying the next stuff...ect...I could take me a year or more of collecting, but I am okay with that. Since I am looking to have the same size tank as you. Could send you a personal email and we can chat that way?

07/26/2008, 11:04 AM	#18
tbar Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: SE Virginia Posts: 452	PM sent __________________ I have done a 5 gal water change (about 17%) every week since week one. Hopefully having this posted here will motivate me enough to keep doing so. Current Tank Info: 33L, Two 36" 24 watt Marineland LED's, Tunze 9002 Skimmer, 2 Koralia 1's, pico hob filter for carbon.

07/26/2008, 12:07 PM	#20
sammyinafrica Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 23	Brickyardpub Great info! Thanks! It seems that my initial dream of a reef tank will be put on hold for a "fish only tank" at the beginning....Especially if I find a good deal on a used "ready to go" salt water tank. more reading and more research IS required. Thanks again.

07/27/2008, 04:13 AM	#21
cdbias2 Appalachian Reef Society Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Alum Creek, WV (No more) Posts: 1,433	I purchased a used 125g and paid a professional aquarium mover to move it to my house and initial setup. It cost me $300 and I had to supply 2 additional helpers. That $300 was some of the best money I spent. Moving a used tank is an art in itself. I had no idea. I showed up with a 5g bucket and he showed up with 30 of them. LOL. We did not reuse any of the water. One more point. Myself and others feel a huge responsibility in the SW hobby to keep things alive and healthy. When something dies, it not like flushing a goldfish. As a newbie, you dont feel this, but you will in time. I think this is where alot of the buyers remorse comes from because people start thinking that maybe if they bought that other more expensive light, skimmer, etc; maybe their fish wont be suffering. Also alot of fish cost $50. If it dies you certainly aren't going to replace it and put it in the same tank without upgrades. Now what did that $50 fish cost?

07/27/2008, 12:21 PM	#22
sammyinafrica Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 23	cdbias2(PM sent)... I think that $50 fish was free? Right I have looked at my local reef club (LRC???) and there are numerous posts with 100+ tanks with fish (all well within my price range)... Many of them expressed concern for their well being. You are right, at this point I am only thinking of the fish loss from a financial stand point...In time that will change I am sure, but I doubt I will name my fish However, my wife will. When you bought your used tank how did you replace the water in your tank? did youhave to cycle the system? Purchase IMMEDIATE upgrades?

07/27/2008, 12:41 PM	#23
cdbias2 Appalachian Reef Society Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Alum Creek, WV (No more) Posts: 1,433	Yes immediate upgrades (better skimmer and pump) and the mover I hired was a LFS owner and we used newly made SW 100%. The 30 buckets were used for transfer of the rock wet and rinsing the rock before being placed in the tank. My tank did cycle a little but I lost no livestock. Since then I've only added a 20L refugium and a 70g sump. I love my external Lifereef skimmer.