corals and invert crash????

[dreed]

Hello everyone. I went on vacation for a week starting last Friday. I set up the tank with a water change (20%), put a full 20g container of RO/DI water next to the tank for my neighbor to top off as needed and had him only feed the pellets I got.

He called me 3 days ago and said that the hair algae was taking over. I have a branching hammer, a cabbage leather, a polyp colony and a grouping of about 15 Zoa's. I also had a pepermint shrimp and a banded cleaner shrimp. Everything was super healthy when I left and all was fine. At the end of his call, he said that my cleaner shrimp was dead and looked like it got caught in the rocks. I didn't think it possible but I got home today and saw that it was indeed stuck in a Fiji rock. Both shrimp were dead, my cabbage has most of the leather gone and only the feeder fingers mostly remaining, my hammer has receded and is in so far that the hard scales are sticking out of the top. The Zoa's and button polyps are closed up. I lost 2 cierth, 4 nassarius, 2 turbos and 2 astrea snails. I had only one cierth live and he is just moving around int he shell but not around the tank. I measured after I did a 10g water change in my 77g total setup and got the following parameter:

Temp 78.1
Saline 1.025
Ammo .25
Nitri 0
Nitra 0
Phosph 0
Calc 460
PH 8.2
Alk on the low side at around 1.9
Mag at 1400

I added some Kent Super Buffer to help with the low Alk.

What could have caused this? The fact that the shrimp might have died and started a new cycle comes to mind since he never removed the body.

I have 2 False Percs int he tank too and they were fine.

Are my corals doomed?

We might consider FOWLR now. That will open out options to fish we wanted but didn't consider.

I almost want out of the hobby since I can't keep it stable while gone but, have too much in my stuff, I don't think I'll get back even 80% of what I have in it.

Thanks for any help.

Dave

[Fish_wiz2]

ammonia caused this maybe over feeding causing bad water quality causing stuff to die causing a big mess. no they are not doomed but will be severely stress because of bad water. i would just get water back on track and start again but carefully planning so when you leave for vacations are urgent biz you will be ready, i have had something like that happen but luckily could prevent a disaster now i'm investing in webcams for my tank and maybe a controller

[dreed]

The house had an ammonia smell to it and the skimmer wass going nuts. It was overflowing after just 2 days.

I just lost a blue leg hermit now. The Hammer is really receding in deep. I think I may have lost it and the cabbage.

We'll see

My Chaeto has grown much bigger over the past 2 weeks too. I would have thought to see a higher nitrite or Nitrate count if ammonia was the culprit. Being at only .25, I didn't think that low of a level would be deadly.

Dave

[drparker]

No way to know for sure but I would be suspect of your neighbor doing something wrong that started the cycle. Like ignoring your tank for 4 days and seeing that the water level was low and pumps weren't running threw a bunch of fresh in, maybe even directly into the display tank.

A 65g in good shape should be able to handle the death of a single snail or shrimp without a complete crash. It sounds like they all died at once from some event.

[alextheromanian]

im a beginner but i must agree with drparker...

i have a 75 set up for 8 months not a reef granted but with a few corals and what not...

ive had fish die due to fighting ive had 2 CLEANER SHRIMP DIE due to temperature

i had 5 chromis die overnight and didnt take ANY of them out...

in a day or two before they even started decomposing the CUC was ALL over them things in an established tank like yours get consumed usually before they decompose.


i would suspect that your neighbor might has been busy and duped water in the diplay all at once...maybe moving some rock and pinching one of your cleaner shrimp...i dont know about the other but ive cerainly come CLOSE to killing crabs and shrimp dumping 5 gals of water at once in my display.....but then again i dont have a sump.

[dreed]

My tank has actually been up and running less than 8 months total.

Would an ammonia level of .25ppm cause stuff to die? I know it's bad for them but didn't think that low of a level would do anything. I think it might be on the turn around of a cycle but I see no Nitrites. We'll try again. I'm target feedign the corals and will see what happens. THe cabbage is just the fingers and they close up at night just like it did when it had all the meat between them so I hope there is recovery in it.

We'll see.

Dave

[Sk8r]

RUn carbon and keep changing it out: there's a lot to absorb, and it willl get biostuffs/organics.
Do at least a 20% but under 40% water change: nothing's much worse than what's in there.
Running a micron filter sock couldn't hurt.
Lord, this just makes you sick when this happens. But carbon and water changes and Amquel (safe at least with stony coral, and it's fussy) are a help; and start raising that alk at the rate indicated on the bottle/jar. You should not overdo with the correction.

Also test your magnesium more than once: it may start down.

[dreed]

Thanks Sk8r. I'm planning on a phosban reactor. Would getting one for phosban and one for carbon work? I think I saw a post once where there were people running two with a single pump and they were in series somehow.

I'll throw my filter sock back in for a few days and get it cleaned out.

Thanks
Dave

[drparker]

Yes two reactors is a great way to go. You run one pump with a Y. Not in series, because you want a higher flow through the carbon than you do through the GFO.

[BurntOutReefer]

"The house had an ammonia smell to it"....wow...must have a bloody good nose....

I would do 10% waterchange every other day. monitor ammon level (if any)....maybe try some Prime just in case.....I doubt very much that a shrimp death caused this

[dreed]

It's a wierd smell but has a big hint of ammonia in it and that's all I could see wrong with the readings other than the low Alk.

Ammonia was at .25ppm . I've done two 5 gallon changes and will do a 10 gallon tomorrow. The hammer is half and half. Some want to come out ant back while others don't want to come out yet.

He said he smelled the ammonia before the shrimp died and then everything went south. I don't know what it was but I think it's done. I still smell it now but it's subsiding.

I'll look into getting a set of reactors and a pump.

What are these chemicals you guys talk about. I'm nervous about trying any chemicals.

Thanks
Dave

[dreed]

Well, I feel like a dumb ***. It wasn't ammonia I was smelling. It was the burning of my heater that went out in the sump. It busted somehow and apparently killed off most of the inverts. It was a second heater and I have a backup. I moved the other one into a better visible and less harrassed spot and also got a second backup again.

The big question now is, can I start restocking after my next 15g water change on Friday? I'll check all the parameters again to verify everything is in order. I got Kent's version of the Prime stuff and it worked great. Got rid of the ammonia completely and the tank is already starting to clean up.

I'm glad I found the problem, now what needs to be done to start it going again?

Thanks
Dave

[drparker]

Last year I had three different glass heater break in a month. I now use the plastic Visi-therm Stealth heaters.

I'd wait a week or so to add anything and run carbon. Your stressed leather might still be giving off chemicals as a stress / defense response. No such thing as going to slow.

[dreed]

I think the leather is done but the Hammer is looking promising. My button polyps and Zoa's are all balled up and I don't know yet.

I'm looking at a reactor for carbon and then one for phosban next.

Thanks
Dave

[BurntOutReefer]

i fthe water went over 85 or so, the leather is toast....
zoa's might be ok, but only time will tell.....

[dreed]

Leather is out. It's not coming back. The hammer is more than likely coming back and I'll wait on the Zoa's

Dave