PAR Difference of 20k and 14k MH

paintballer768 · 08/01/2008, 09:56 PM

Bulb replacement time for me is right around the corner. I kind of want to switch to a 20k bulb to see the color difference, but due to money constraints I cant buy another 14k just incase something were to happen. Heres my question...

24 gallon tank, 150 watt Sunpod MH.
Im keeping zoos and LPS at different heights throughout the tank. (Acans, FS, chalice)

Would I have any problem keeping, lets say, a LPS coral at the bottom? Like will I have to worry about it not getting enough light?

My guess would be 150 watts over a tank thats 20" deep (its a 24 gallon aquapod) to the bottom of the tank really shouldnt worry but I have to check

danceswithfish · 08/01/2008, 10:05 PM

Why are you replacing your bulb? Metal halide bulbs last for ages. Some might argue that there is a change spectrum of the light but I have read articles that suggest the shift is small.

paintballer768 · 08/01/2008, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by danceswithfish
Why are you replacing your bulb? Metal halide bulbs last for ages. Some might argue that there is a change spectrum of the light but I have read articles that suggest the shift is small.

Its been 6 months since I bought the fixture (still using the stock one Current USA gave me) and Ive been told they only last about this long before the quality begins to decline

danceswithfish · 08/01/2008, 10:17 PM

I think you got some bad info there. Quality may decline over time, but I don't think you need a new bulb. I am sure that the bulbs are good for a lot longer than 6 months.

paintballer768 · 08/01/2008, 10:22 PM

Ill google it and see what I come up with. Regardless of whether it needs to be replaced or not though, what do you all think about keeping LPS/Zoos/Softies with no problems anywhere in the tank?

danceswithfish · 08/01/2008, 10:30 PM

If you want a new bulb just to see a color differance, I don't think you have to worry about not getting enough par for lps.

stagefright13 · 08/01/2008, 10:30 PM

I replace MH bulbs every 12 months. That is the suggested change out period. After 6 months they slowly decline. VERY slowly.

But certain bulbs. Radium?? Need a change at 6 months if I remember correctly. But any normal bulb should last 12 months.

Actually I have run them much longer... They don't blow out at 12 months. They just don't have the spectrum and oomf of a new one.

paintballer768 · 08/01/2008, 10:35 PM

I just read this article (http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/7/aafeature1) and it says about every 15 months or so. Regardless, Im itching for a change, but it is good to know how long theyll last, it even goes into particular bulbs. What do you all recommend for the 20k spectrum? I was thinking XM?

paintballer768 · 08/01/2008, 11:02 PM

Anyone that uses 20ks have any comments? Please, I know some of you are out there.

Toddrtrex · 08/02/2008, 12:19 AM

I use 20 Ks on my 58 ( granted they are 250 watts ) and on my sand bed I have clams, acans, zoas, and some digis. All of them are showing great growth.

I think that you will be fine keeping LPS at the bottom. At worst you might notice some slower growth, but otherwise I don't see any issues.

downhillbiker · 08/02/2008, 12:30 AM

i dont think you would have any problems. i would think you could try out the 20k if you would like, but keep the 14k, they are still good. i would think you could keep SPS under that amount of light, higher in the tank. MH, or other point-source lighting is very powerful, more than you think. what i would acually try a "bluer" or more powerful 14k phoenix, or a 12k radium. they are much more blue than their spectrum would suggest, while still putting out the PAR.

paintballer768 · 08/02/2008, 05:45 AM

Thanks Toddrtrex and downhillbiker for the input. Ive been told that the 14k Pheonix are also much bluer than most 14k bulbs, can anyone vouch for these? Maybe a FTS with just the pheonix on if anyone has them?

discocarp · 08/02/2008, 06:03 AM

I don't use the phoenix (I use single ended) but I have heard very good things about them from people I trust.

As for "enough light" for lps - you are absolutely fine. Don't worry about 14k/20k other than which you prefer the look of. I run 175w halides on a 30" deep lps dominated tank. Great growth and colors. In a 24g with either 150w halide you are absolutely fine.

rkelman · 08/02/2008, 06:04 AM

Don't forget Reeflux 12k. I loooove mine.

paintballer768 · 08/02/2008, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by discocarp
I don't use the phoenix (I use single ended) but I have heard very good things about them from people I trust.

As for "enough light" for lps - you are absolutely fine. Don't worry about 14k/20k other than which you prefer the look of. I run 175w halides on a 30" deep lps dominated tank. Great growth and colors. In a 24g with either 150w halide you are absolutely fine.

Thats good to hear. I just want to be able to know that I can put whatever I want, wherever I want and not worry about light. I dont keep SPS so I think I can put any LPS/zoanthid/softie in there and do just fine.

Now its down to bulb, Im looking for comparison shots, or at least a picture of your tank with a 20k bulb over it. Anybody got pictures like that? I know the divers den on LiveAquaria uses only 20k in their photos, which makes me think it wont be too too blue. If I could find out what bulb that is I would buy it.

paintballer768 · 08/02/2008, 10:14 AM

Anyone have any pics or reviews?

downhillbiker · 08/02/2008, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rkelman
Don't forget Reeflux 12k. I loooove mine.

i meant 12k reeflux not radium. people really like the reeflux for making the corals pop, and they are fairly high in PAR.

downhillbiker · 08/02/2008, 10:54 AM

also keep in mind that many electronic ballasts underdrive the bulbs, which makes them bluer and duller. i dont know much about your ballasts, but i do know 20k bulbs from liveaquaria are probably powered by top-of-the-line ballasts, and overdrive, which makes them whiter than what they would be on a electronic ballast.

cashman95 · 08/02/2008, 11:56 AM

12 Reeflux bulbs...d0 not pop with certain kind of ballast!

I did NOT like them under PFO or ICECAP balast.....DO-DO Brown!

If you want POP, with good intensity, go with radium or pheonix. XM has terrible par and they also tend to loose their spectrum under electronic ballast!

This website will help give you some idea of color and par.
http://www.reeflightinginfo.arvixe.com/index.htm

You have to take in consideration metal halide bulbs will differ in color under diferent ballast,reflectors,and even wattage so finding the perfect bulb for you is really more of a trial and error thing. You might try and find a used bulb in the selling forums to help cushion the price just in case you dont like it. Just be sure its not to old and has already shifted! Hope this helps!

stagefright13 · 08/02/2008, 12:23 PM

Well I put in an XM 15k 250 watt single ended mogul yesterday. And is MUCH brighter than my 175 watt 10k Hamilton. And that is including the 2 URI 03 actinics I used with the Hamilton bulb. The XM is brighter than all 3 bulbs. But the color is similar.

I use a hand wired non electronic ballast for both. Never tried an electronic ballast so can't answer on that. And of course only on my second day of bulb use. But for the price I could change it out more often. But the brightness and color are beautiful. At least on my small 29 gallon it looks like the sun...

The Hamilton bulb was very white. So I used the actinics in addition to it. The 15 has the same effect alone. I would image the 20k would have less par and be a bit too blue for my taste. But if you have alot of corals it may make them glow. Such as a black light and a white tee shirt.

BTW my BTA is heading to the sand with this on...

08/01/2008, 09:56 PM	#1
paintballer768 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: South FL Posts: 227	PAR Difference of 20k and 14k MH Bulb replacement time for me is right around the corner. I kind of want to switch to a 20k bulb to see the color difference, but due to money constraints I cant buy another 14k just incase something were to happen. Heres my question... 24 gallon tank, 150 watt Sunpod MH. Im keeping zoos and LPS at different heights throughout the tank. (Acans, FS, chalice) Would I have any problem keeping, lets say, a LPS coral at the bottom? Like will I have to worry about it not getting enough light? My guess would be 150 watts over a tank thats 20" deep (its a 24 gallon aquapod) to the bottom of the tank really shouldnt worry but I have to check

08/01/2008, 10:05 PM	#2
danceswithfish Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: BC Canada Posts: 491	Why are you replacing your bulb? Metal halide bulbs last for ages. Some might argue that there is a change spectrum of the light but I have read articles that suggest the shift is small. __________________ Click on my name, "danceswithfish" then click on "visit danaceswithfish's homepage!" to see my 90g build!

08/01/2008, 10:17 PM	#4
danceswithfish Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: BC Canada Posts: 491	I think you got some bad info there. Quality may decline over time, but I don't think you need a new bulb. I am sure that the bulbs are good for a lot longer than 6 months. __________________ Click on my name, "danceswithfish" then click on "visit danaceswithfish's homepage!" to see my 90g build!

08/01/2008, 10:22 PM	#5
paintballer768 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: South FL Posts: 227	Ill google it and see what I come up with. Regardless of whether it needs to be replaced or not though, what do you all think about keeping LPS/Zoos/Softies with no problems anywhere in the tank? __________________ -Jeff Current Tank Info: 24 gallon mixed SPS LPS Zoas

08/01/2008, 10:30 PM	#6
danceswithfish Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: BC Canada Posts: 491	If you want a new bulb just to see a color differance, I don't think you have to worry about not getting enough par for lps. __________________ Click on my name, "danceswithfish" then click on "visit danaceswithfish's homepage!" to see my 90g build!

08/01/2008, 10:30 PM	#7
stagefright13 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Hatboro, PA USA Posts: 899	I replace MH bulbs every 12 months. That is the suggested change out period. After 6 months they slowly decline. VERY slowly. But certain bulbs. Radium?? Need a change at 6 months if I remember correctly. But any normal bulb should last 12 months. Actually I have run them much longer... They don't blow out at 12 months. They just don't have the spectrum and oomf of a new one.

08/01/2008, 10:35 PM	#8
paintballer768 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: South FL Posts: 227	I just read this article (http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/7/aafeature1) and it says about every 15 months or so. Regardless, Im itching for a change, but it is good to know how long theyll last, it even goes into particular bulbs. What do you all recommend for the 20k spectrum? I was thinking XM? __________________ -Jeff Current Tank Info: 24 gallon mixed SPS LPS Zoas

08/01/2008, 11:02 PM	#9
paintballer768 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: South FL Posts: 227	Anyone that uses 20ks have any comments? Please, I know some of you are out there. __________________ -Jeff Current Tank Info: 24 gallon mixed SPS LPS Zoas

08/02/2008, 12:19 AM	#10
Toddrtrex Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Carol Stream, IL Posts: 23,162	I use 20 Ks on my 58 ( granted they are 250 watts ) and on my sand bed I have clams, acans, zoas, and some digis. All of them are showing great growth. I think that you will be fine keeping LPS at the bottom. At worst you might notice some slower growth, but otherwise I don't see any issues. __________________ Click my name and then "visit toddrtrex's homepage" for tank pictures Current Tank Info: 210g reef and 65g reef

08/02/2008, 12:30 AM	#11
downhillbiker Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 2,831	i dont think you would have any problems. i would think you could try out the 20k if you would like, but keep the 14k, they are still good. i would think you could keep SPS under that amount of light, higher in the tank. MH, or other point-source lighting is very powerful, more than you think. what i would acually try a "bluer" or more powerful 14k phoenix, or a 12k radium. they are much more blue than their spectrum would suggest, while still putting out the PAR. __________________ The friendliest GIANT you'll ever meet. Current Tank Info: 200g Marineland Deep Dimension (Lumenmax Reflectors/Dual PFO 400w/Radium 20K) and 2xFrag Tanks (One TEK T5 fixture and one MH, Galaxy/Phoenix) on same system w/100g sump w/6"x100g DSB, AquaC EV-1000 Skimmer, Reeflo Barracuda return pump

08/02/2008, 05:45 AM	#12
paintballer768 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: South FL Posts: 227	Thanks Toddrtrex and downhillbiker for the input. Ive been told that the 14k Pheonix are also much bluer than most 14k bulbs, can anyone vouch for these? Maybe a FTS with just the pheonix on if anyone has them? __________________ -Jeff Current Tank Info: 24 gallon mixed SPS LPS Zoas

08/02/2008, 06:03 AM	#13
discocarp Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Winter Park, FL Posts: 2,707	I don't use the phoenix (I use single ended) but I have heard very good things about them from people I trust. As for "enough light" for lps - you are absolutely fine. Don't worry about 14k/20k other than which you prefer the look of. I run 175w halides on a 30" deep lps dominated tank. Great growth and colors. In a 24g with either 150w halide you are absolutely fine.

08/02/2008, 06:04 AM	#14
rkelman Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Belleville, Ontario Canada Posts: 3,438	Don't forget Reeflux 12k. I loooove mine.

08/02/2008, 10:14 AM	#16
paintballer768 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: South FL Posts: 227	Anyone have any pics or reviews? __________________ -Jeff Current Tank Info: 24 gallon mixed SPS LPS Zoas

08/02/2008, 10:54 AM	#18
downhillbiker Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 2,831	also keep in mind that many electronic ballasts underdrive the bulbs, which makes them bluer and duller. i dont know much about your ballasts, but i do know 20k bulbs from liveaquaria are probably powered by top-of-the-line ballasts, and overdrive, which makes them whiter than what they would be on a electronic ballast. __________________ The friendliest GIANT you'll ever meet. Current Tank Info: 200g Marineland Deep Dimension (Lumenmax Reflectors/Dual PFO 400w/Radium 20K) and 2xFrag Tanks (One TEK T5 fixture and one MH, Galaxy/Phoenix) on same system w/100g sump w/6"x100g DSB, AquaC EV-1000 Skimmer, Reeflo Barracuda return pump

08/02/2008, 11:56 AM	#19
cashman95 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Greenville, S.C. Posts: 810	12 Reeflux bulbs...d0 not pop with certain kind of ballast! I did NOT like them under PFO or ICECAP balast.....DO-DO Brown! If you want POP, with good intensity, go with radium or pheonix. XM has terrible par and they also tend to loose their spectrum under electronic ballast! This website will help give you some idea of color and par. http://www.reeflightinginfo.arvixe.com/index.htm You have to take in consideration metal halide bulbs will differ in color under diferent ballast,reflectors,and even wattage so finding the perfect bulb for you is really more of a trial and error thing. You might try and find a used bulb in the selling forums to help cushion the price just in case you dont like it. Just be sure its not to old and has already shifted! Hope this helps! __________________ SPS Tank with sump in the garage, 400watt Radium/Lumatek ballast,ReefKeeper2 controlling it all!! VHO actinics in the works! Current Tank Info: 24x24x20 Rimless Cube

08/02/2008, 12:23 PM	#20
stagefright13 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Hatboro, PA USA Posts: 899	Well I put in an XM 15k 250 watt single ended mogul yesterday. And is MUCH brighter than my 175 watt 10k Hamilton. And that is including the 2 URI 03 actinics I used with the Hamilton bulb. The XM is brighter than all 3 bulbs. But the color is similar. I use a hand wired non electronic ballast for both. Never tried an electronic ballast so can't answer on that. And of course only on my second day of bulb use. But for the price I could change it out more often. But the brightness and color are beautiful. At least on my small 29 gallon it looks like the sun... The Hamilton bulb was very white. So I used the actinics in addition to it. The 15 has the same effect alone. I would image the 20k would have less par and be a bit too blue for my taste. But if you have alot of corals it may make them glow. Such as a black light and a white tee shirt. BTW my BTA is heading to the sand with this on... Last edited by stagefright13; 08/02/2008 at 12:36 PM.