RO/DI from Ebay: ONE review inside! - Page 2

second_decimal · 08/07/2008, 10:08 AM

another option you have is to remove that huge disposal and replace it with a smaller unit giving you more room to install your drain above the trap. (thats the small ellbow in the drainline. it is always filled with water to prevent the sewer gas from going into the house. sewergas not only smells bad, but can be dangerous as well) here is a thread with my ro install under my sink.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...readid=1445316

also.... i dont know how you have everything else hooked up, but dont use di water for drinking ! you have to split into the line after the ro membrane before it goes into the di cartrige for drinking water. remember to use checkvalves and i assume you got a auto shutoff valve hooked up as well.

cabrego · 08/07/2008, 10:13 AM

I am puzzled why none of the systems I have seen actually include an air gap. It seems like it should be standard equipment, since it is so important.

cabrego · 08/07/2008, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by second_decimal
another option you have is to remove that huge disposal and replace it with a smaller unit giving you more room to install your drain above the trap. (thats the small ellbow in the drainline. it is always filled with water to prevent the sewer gas from going into the house. sewergas not only smells bad, but can be dangerous as well) here is a thread with my ro install under my sink.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...readid=1445316

also.... i dont know how you have everything else hooked up, but dont use di water for drinking ! you have to split into the line after the ro membrane before it goes into the di cartrige for drinking water. remember to use checkvalves and i assume you got a auto shutoff valve hooked up as well.

dont worry I am not drinking di water, there is two outputs a di and a ro.

I guess i really have 2 issues with this install:

1. relocating the drainline above the trap.
2. including an air trap with the drain line.

does that sound right?

second_decimal · 08/07/2008, 10:34 AM

from what i can see, yes
the drainline is pretty important. you dont want to have sewerwater / gas fouling up your unit.

a temporary fix would be not to use the automatic drain and just run the drain into your sink or something.

the air gap is there to prevent back suction. another way to prevent back suction is to place the line higher than the drain. for example, when you do a waterchange on your tank using lets say a python hose, you start a syphon and place one end in the tank that sits higher than the drain and one end in a bucket. the syphon sucks the water over the tank lip and makes it drain. if you had an airgap though, it would never drain because the vacuum is not able to materialize itself. how are you tapping the drinking water? dont you have a faucet?

cabrego · 08/07/2008, 10:41 AM

Yes there is a faucet. RO goes to the faucet, RODI goes to a seperate line.

It is not to much trouble to figure out a way to fix this issue, this is one thing I had not really encoutered in my research. And it is something I want to get right.

I picked the easiest spot to drill and tap in the drain line, this was obviously a mistake. I am sure the instructions said something about instally before the trap or something like that now that I think of it, I guess I thought I had it right considering the space allotment.

second_decimal · 08/07/2008, 10:42 AM

btw john guest fittings are the little valves etc. that you push the ro tubes into and they lock it in place. google it if you dont kow what i am talking about. also, i was looking at teh pics, it looks like you do have an ro faucet. that faucet is where the airgap is located if you have that kind. if you dont, get one. the faucet should have 3 hookups. two 1/4 ro on the bottom side and one 3/8 ro that goes into the bottom of the faucet

second_decimal · 08/07/2008, 10:45 AM

when you relocate the drain, i would leave the drain fitting in place, just cut the tube and get a john guest shut off to plug the tube.

AZDesertRat · 08/07/2008, 10:46 AM

All systems that are NSF approved come with air gap faucets. Look at the Watts Premier units sold at places like Costco and WalMart for one example.
Most if not all the RO/DI suppliers sell an air gap faucet but you don't see them on RC so much as those vendors are catering to the reef hobby and not so much the drinking water crowd. I like you use my RO for both drinking and reef so I am very careful about water quality and my families health.

cabrego · 08/07/2008, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by second_decimal
btw john guest fittings are the little valves etc. that you push the ro tubes into and they lock it in place. google it if you dont kow what i am talking about. also, i was looking at teh pics, it looks like you do have an ro faucet. that faucet is where the airgap is located if you have that kind. if you dont, get one. the faucet should have 3 hookups. two 1/4 ro on the bottom side and one 3/8 ro that goes into the bottom of the faucet

the faucet that came with the system is a non air gap type faucet. This will require me to buy an air gap i suppose.

second_decimal · 08/07/2008, 11:02 AM

i find it hilarious that alot of the ro faucets advertise "no lead".... i mean seriously, does that imply there are ro faucets that actually have lead in them???? if you drink ro water, you can consider yourself safe from the recent findings of pharma residue in the worlds water supply.

http://www.wbko.com/home/headlines/16434341.html

oh and in case you live in italy...
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releas...-cri080305.php

cabrego · 08/07/2008, 11:12 AM

something like this work?

http://www.airgap.com/gapAro.htm

second_decimal · 08/07/2008, 11:51 AM

i am not familiar with those units... my recomendation would be to look at a new airgap faucet. they are like 20$ at hd or lowes.

JNye · 08/07/2008, 01:40 PM

Good idea on the air gap, a check valve is not a sufficient backflow device. Hey second decimal who cares if a faucet has lead in it? Half of Chicago still uses lead pipes to supply their drinking water to the house, been using them for a hundred years now.

cabrego · 08/07/2008, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zestay
i have pretty much the same system ( water general ) but mine has 2 out puts.
one is ro -> carbon filter for taste that is on my sink
the other is DI

i have my dual inline tds meter hooked up to each of the out puts. my RO is 8
DI is 0

now my filter did sit unused for about 3 months and i noticed my TDS was up to about 30 untill i drained the tank and let it refil with fresh water than it was back down to 8 and 0

Are you saying your drinking water ro>taste filter> is at about 8 ppm?

Just curious because right now mine is around 30. I am on my 10 th gallon of fresh water.

AZDesertRat · 08/07/2008, 03:55 PM

Any of those would work but the air gap faucet may be cheaper.
Here is a link for faucets but you may find them cheaper somewhere else.
http://www.wattspremier.com/watts/sh...ectGroup_ID=10

and here:
http://www.spectrapure.com/St_faucet.htm

Your filtered water TDS is pretty high for running 10 gallons already. If you have a final taste and odor carbon filter installed, disconnect it and try again. granular carbon filters actually add TDS back into the treated water, for drinking its not much of a concern but if you are running that water to a final DI it will exhaust your DI in a hurry.
As a reference my tap water TDS is 835, my RO only TDS averages between 5 and 6 and DI is a true 0 TDS for well over 800 gallons per 20 oz DI cartridge. I don't recall if you posted your tap water TDS but you should be getting 96-98% rejection with a new membrane.

cabrego · 08/07/2008, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AZDesertRat
Any of those would work but the air gap faucet may be cheaper.
Here is a link for faucets but you may find them cheaper somewhere else.
http://www.wattspremier.com/watts/sh...ectGroup_ID=10

and here:
http://www.spectrapure.com/St_faucet.htm

Your filtered water TDS is pretty high for running 10 gallons already. If you have a final taste and odor carbon filter installed, disconnect it and try again. granular carbon filters actually add TDS back into the treated water, for drinking its not much of a concern but if you are running that water to a final DI it will exhaust your DI in a hurry.
As a reference my tap water TDS is 835, my RO only TDS averages between 5 and 6 and DI is a true 0 TDS for well over 800 gallons per 20 oz DI cartridge. I don't recall if you posted your tap water TDS but you should be getting 96-98% rejection with a new membrane.

I am running through a taste filter. I suspected that could be part of the issue.

The Final product will go from the storage tank through the taste filter or DI, depending on which valve is opened.

My TDS is only 190, I suppose I should test the water right after the RO at some point.

AZDesertRat · 08/07/2008, 04:35 PM

What I did was run my RO line into the pressure tank. I installed a couple of tees in that line, one leading back to my DI filters and the other to my drinking water faucets (more than one plus the refrigerator water and cie maker in the door) with the taste and odor filter closer to the faucets so it would not have any effect on the water going to the DI. If you are storing RO water in apressure tank you will want to make it a habit to completely drain the pressure tank every few weeks so it can completely refill with fresh low TDS RO water. Drinking water systems tend to cycle frequently due to filling a glass now an then so they have lots of starts and stops which leads to TDS creep and concentrated TDS in the pressure tank. Draining the tank on a regular basis helps keep this in check. I keep a couple 5G water jugs around for water changes so I let a couple get empty then fill them up so I get a nice long RO cycle to flush everything well.
If your tap TDS is 190 you should see no more than 6 or 8 TDS from the RO worst case and I would expect it to be closer to 4 or 5 on a new membrane.

tenpoint · 08/16/2008, 09:48 PM

Desert Rat,
I'm new to this and want a r/o filter for waterchanges on a 60g tank. What brand/model Can I get away with for a relative reasonable price. I figure if I'm gonna be investing alot in keeping an enjoyable nice saltwater tank, I outta get a good filter for the water to help protect my investments. Thanks. Keep in mind I am new to this so Anyway to make it understandable is appreciated. THANKS

AZDesertRat · 08/17/2008, 12:03 AM

I think there are two ways of looking at investing in RO/DI units. One is you are in it for the long haul so buy the best you can and it will reward you for years to come, or two invest less up front and replace membranes and DI filters more often over the next The breakeven point is about 2 or 3 years, with average tap water quality and even sooner if you have high TDS and CO2 like we do here in Phoenix.
By the best I am referring to the Spectrapure MaxCap system which will set you back about $350 initially but give you greatly extended filter life and lower overall replacement costs after a few years. My next choice would be Buckeye Field Supplies 75 GPD Premium system at $169, less initial investment but the DI will not last as long as the MaxCap (though probably longer than 50% of the other units out there) so long term costs will be higher.
Both will serve you well and both have great customer service and support.

x947 · 08/17/2008, 02:10 PM

I'm gonna show my ignorance here, but why not drink the water from the DI filter. That water should only be used in the tank ??

Quote:

Originally posted by second_decimal
another option you have is to remove that huge disposal and replace it with a smaller unit giving you more room to install your drain above the trap. (thats the small ellbow in the drainline. it is always filled with water to prevent the sewer gas from going into the house. sewergas not only smells bad, but can be dangerous as well) here is a thread with my ro install under my sink.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...readid=1445316

also.... i dont know how you have everything else hooked up, but dont use di water for drinking ! you have to split into the line after the ro membrane before it goes into the di cartrige for drinking water. remember to use checkvalves and i assume you got a auto shutoff valve hooked up as well.

AZDesertRat · 08/17/2008, 02:36 PM

DI water has a blah, bland taste since it contains no minerals or anything for that matter. Its just not refreshing. RO on the other hand still contains enough minerals to have a taste to it.
Some will try to convince you drinking DI is bad for you buit this is supposition and has been proven in a documented medical or scientific test. The porblems with testing are you cannot survive on water alone and in such massive quantities to be able to actualy cause harm, you would drown internally long before any testing could be deemed conclusive. Also you receive more minerals from a single potato chip than from all the water you consume in a day so testing is about impossible.

08/07/2008, 10:08 AM	#26
second_decimal Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: houston, tx Posts: 152	another option you have is to remove that huge disposal and replace it with a smaller unit giving you more room to install your drain above the trap. (thats the small ellbow in the drainline. it is always filled with water to prevent the sewer gas from going into the house. sewergas not only smells bad, but can be dangerous as well) here is a thread with my ro install under my sink. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...readid=1445316 also.... i dont know how you have everything else hooked up, but dont use di water for drinking ! you have to split into the line after the ro membrane before it goes into the di cartrige for drinking water. remember to use checkvalves and i assume you got a auto shutoff valve hooked up as well. __________________ "one good thing about music, when it hits you feel no pain"

08/07/2008, 10:34 AM	#29
second_decimal Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: houston, tx Posts: 152	from what i can see, yes the drainline is pretty important. you dont want to have sewerwater / gas fouling up your unit. a temporary fix would be not to use the automatic drain and just run the drain into your sink or something. the air gap is there to prevent back suction. another way to prevent back suction is to place the line higher than the drain. for example, when you do a waterchange on your tank using lets say a python hose, you start a syphon and place one end in the tank that sits higher than the drain and one end in a bucket. the syphon sucks the water over the tank lip and makes it drain. if you had an airgap though, it would never drain because the vacuum is not able to materialize itself. how are you tapping the drinking water? dont you have a faucet? __________________ "one good thing about music, when it hits you feel no pain"

08/07/2008, 10:42 AM	#31
second_decimal Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: houston, tx Posts: 152	btw john guest fittings are the little valves etc. that you push the ro tubes into and they lock it in place. google it if you dont kow what i am talking about. also, i was looking at teh pics, it looks like you do have an ro faucet. that faucet is where the airgap is located if you have that kind. if you dont, get one. the faucet should have 3 hookups. two 1/4 ro on the bottom side and one 3/8 ro that goes into the bottom of the faucet __________________ "one good thing about music, when it hits you feel no pain"

08/07/2008, 10:45 AM	#32
second_decimal Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: houston, tx Posts: 152	when you relocate the drain, i would leave the drain fitting in place, just cut the tube and get a john guest shut off to plug the tube. __________________ "one good thing about music, when it hits you feel no pain"

08/07/2008, 11:02 AM	#35
second_decimal Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: houston, tx Posts: 152	i find it hilarious that alot of the ro faucets advertise "no lead".... i mean seriously, does that imply there are ro faucets that actually have lead in them???? if you drink ro water, you can consider yourself safe from the recent findings of pharma residue in the worlds water supply. http://www.wbko.com/home/headlines/16434341.html oh and in case you live in italy... http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releas...-cri080305.php __________________ "one good thing about music, when it hits you feel no pain"

08/07/2008, 10:13 AM	#27
cabrego Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: McAllen,TX Posts: 720	I am puzzled why none of the systems I have seen actually include an air gap. It seems like it should be standard equipment, since it is so important.

08/07/2008, 10:41 AM	#30
cabrego Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: McAllen,TX Posts: 720	Yes there is a faucet. RO goes to the faucet, RODI goes to a seperate line. It is not to much trouble to figure out a way to fix this issue, this is one thing I had not really encoutered in my research. And it is something I want to get right. I picked the easiest spot to drill and tap in the drain line, this was obviously a mistake. I am sure the instructions said something about instally before the trap or something like that now that I think of it, I guess I thought I had it right considering the space allotment.

08/07/2008, 10:46 AM	#33
AZDesertRat Moved On Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: NW Phoenix Posts: 16,621	All systems that are NSF approved come with air gap faucets. Look at the Watts Premier units sold at places like Costco and WalMart for one example. Most if not all the RO/DI suppliers sell an air gap faucet but you don't see them on RC so much as those vendors are catering to the reef hobby and not so much the drinking water crowd. I like you use my RO for both drinking and reef so I am very careful about water quality and my families health.

08/07/2008, 11:12 AM	#36
cabrego Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: McAllen,TX Posts: 720	something like this work? http://www.airgap.com/gapAro.htm

08/07/2008, 11:51 AM	#37
second_decimal Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: houston, tx Posts: 152	i am not familiar with those units... my recomendation would be to look at a new airgap faucet. they are like 20$ at hd or lowes. __________________ "one good thing about music, when it hits you feel no pain"

08/07/2008, 01:40 PM	#38
JNye Moved On Up Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Lansing, IL Posts: 2,230	Good idea on the air gap, a check valve is not a sufficient backflow device. Hey second decimal who cares if a faucet has lead in it? Half of Chicago still uses lead pipes to supply their drinking water to the house, been using them for a hundred years now. __________________ Joe Current Tank Info: it don't matter just don't bite it

08/07/2008, 03:55 PM	#40
AZDesertRat Moved On Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: NW Phoenix Posts: 16,621	Any of those would work but the air gap faucet may be cheaper. Here is a link for faucets but you may find them cheaper somewhere else. http://www.wattspremier.com/watts/sh...ectGroup_ID=10 and here: http://www.spectrapure.com/St_faucet.htm Your filtered water TDS is pretty high for running 10 gallons already. If you have a final taste and odor carbon filter installed, disconnect it and try again. granular carbon filters actually add TDS back into the treated water, for drinking its not much of a concern but if you are running that water to a final DI it will exhaust your DI in a hurry. As a reference my tap water TDS is 835, my RO only TDS averages between 5 and 6 and DI is a true 0 TDS for well over 800 gallons per 20 oz DI cartridge. I don't recall if you posted your tap water TDS but you should be getting 96-98% rejection with a new membrane.

08/07/2008, 04:35 PM	#42
AZDesertRat Moved On Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: NW Phoenix Posts: 16,621	What I did was run my RO line into the pressure tank. I installed a couple of tees in that line, one leading back to my DI filters and the other to my drinking water faucets (more than one plus the refrigerator water and cie maker in the door) with the taste and odor filter closer to the faucets so it would not have any effect on the water going to the DI. If you are storing RO water in apressure tank you will want to make it a habit to completely drain the pressure tank every few weeks so it can completely refill with fresh low TDS RO water. Drinking water systems tend to cycle frequently due to filling a glass now an then so they have lots of starts and stops which leads to TDS creep and concentrated TDS in the pressure tank. Draining the tank on a regular basis helps keep this in check. I keep a couple 5G water jugs around for water changes so I let a couple get empty then fill them up so I get a nice long RO cycle to flush everything well. If your tap TDS is 190 you should see no more than 6 or 8 TDS from the RO worst case and I would expect it to be closer to 4 or 5 on a new membrane.

08/16/2008, 09:48 PM	#43
tenpoint Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Kentucky Posts: 1	Desert Rat, I'm new to this and want a r/o filter for waterchanges on a 60g tank. What brand/model Can I get away with for a relative reasonable price. I figure if I'm gonna be investing alot in keeping an enjoyable nice saltwater tank, I outta get a good filter for the water to help protect my investments. Thanks. Keep in mind I am new to this so Anyway to make it understandable is appreciated. THANKS

08/17/2008, 12:03 AM	#44
AZDesertRat Moved On Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: NW Phoenix Posts: 16,621	I think there are two ways of looking at investing in RO/DI units. One is you are in it for the long haul so buy the best you can and it will reward you for years to come, or two invest less up front and replace membranes and DI filters more often over the next The breakeven point is about 2 or 3 years, with average tap water quality and even sooner if you have high TDS and CO2 like we do here in Phoenix. By the best I am referring to the Spectrapure MaxCap system which will set you back about $350 initially but give you greatly extended filter life and lower overall replacement costs after a few years. My next choice would be Buckeye Field Supplies 75 GPD Premium system at $169, less initial investment but the DI will not last as long as the MaxCap (though probably longer than 50% of the other units out there) so long term costs will be higher. Both will serve you well and both have great customer service and support.

08/17/2008, 02:36 PM	#46
AZDesertRat Moved On Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: NW Phoenix Posts: 16,621	DI water has a blah, bland taste since it contains no minerals or anything for that matter. Its just not refreshing. RO on the other hand still contains enough minerals to have a taste to it. Some will try to convince you drinking DI is bad for you buit this is supposition and has been proven in a documented medical or scientific test. The porblems with testing are you cannot survive on water alone and in such massive quantities to be able to actualy cause harm, you would drown internally long before any testing could be deemed conclusive. Also you receive more minerals from a single potato chip than from all the water you consume in a day so testing is about impossible.