How to replace old sandbed

stagefright13 · 08/16/2008, 01:56 PM

I want to replace my 7 year old sand bed in the next couple weeks. I ordered 40 pounds of sand. Aside from removing all the critters and shells laying in it for the hermits. How do I get it out? And how do I put the new stuff back in?

It is pretty deep so I expect some bad stuff to come as I suck it out. I was thinking of using my shop vac hooked to a 1 inch ID water change hose. And have my girlfriend hit the switch on and off when I have it positioned. This ok?

But more importantly how do I put the new sand back in? I mean without killing everything in a sand storm. Can I put it back in a little at a time? I ordered 40 pounds of sand. Not sure how much I need. Because it was a long time ago when I set it up.

The main is a little 29.

JRechcygl · 08/16/2008, 02:54 PM

It'll be messy thats for sure!! You can put it in slowly as in over a couple days or slowly like a couple cups of sand at a time. Its going to be cloudy! I would personally bite the bullet and put it all in at once. Just use like a cup for measuring or someother scoop and cover the sand as you put it in the tank so it doesn't go all over. Then as you get to the bottom of the tank, release your hand and let it out. Why do you want to take out the sand?

stagefright13 · 08/16/2008, 03:05 PM

I need to replace it cause it is 7 years old and my Nitrates are at 25+ now. It is used up as far as I can tell. After 15 or 20 0 tds water changes it stays the same. And I added a huge LTA that dug a huge hole in the sand and I think released the trapped nitrates.

But hey I might be wrong. Maybe I should just dump more sand in. But how do I lay it gently on the bottom. Obviously I can't pour it in from the surface....

My gut feeling is to suck it all out at once. Then replace it all over a few days somehow.

JustinReef · 08/16/2008, 03:24 PM

I did this once. What I decided to do was remove all my fish and corals and out them in a temporary rubbermaid container with powerhead and sponge filter and a bit of LR. I just wanted to play it safe incase anything really bad came out of the sand. Then I siphoned out all the sand and added all the new stuff. Waited a day and a half for the sandstorm to subside, did a 30% or so water change and then tested the water. All was fine but I think I waited one day to add the fish and corals back. Everything was fine.

stagefright13 · 08/16/2008, 05:47 PM

thanks for the advice. I am still afraid to do it lol. But have 40 pounds of sand coming.

Did you use a shop vac?

JustinReef · 08/16/2008, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by stagefright13
thanks for the advice. I am still afraid to do it lol. But have 40 pounds of sand coming.

Did you use a shop vac?

No just 7/8" vinyl tubing. So a little slow but worked just fine. A shop vac would work well I think but I have never tried. I have cleaned my sump with a shop vac though and it was awesome.

stagefright13 · 08/16/2008, 06:02 PM

Thinking of shop vac and my girlfriend on th trigger. Hooked to a water change hose. Me with hose

I think that will be ok. But worried about how to dump that much sand in. Even slowly. I am dumping like .2 mm sand.

markeo99 · 08/16/2008, 06:06 PM

get some pvc pipe that will go to the bottom and dump the sand in the pipe I've done that before and it wworked quite well

da1jewfish · 08/16/2008, 06:57 PM

If it were me, I would not takke out the old sand, no way. Instead I would swish the sand up little by little, over the course of a week or so... let the filter and skimmer do the job, plus your filter feeders will love it.

How do you expect to filter out the inverts, ie. pods and such thats living in there?

stagefright13 · 08/16/2008, 07:12 PM

True I put only a cup of sand into a fuge I had and was Pod city after a few weeks.

stagefright13 · 08/16/2008, 07:20 PM

I vacuumed alot of sand over the years. Should I just dump more in? And how do I pump 20 pounds or more in. I may have to figure this out on my own

Building a new sump right now so no hurry but will have to be done. Maybe a new thread...

LobsterOfJustice · 08/16/2008, 10:36 PM

Putting sand in is easy, just scoop it in a cup, lower it to the bottom, and dump it there. It will be a bit tedious because you have to do it one scoop at a time but it goes faster than you'd think.

widmer · 08/17/2008, 01:21 AM

I haven't a clue who told you that putting new sand in will fix your nitrates. But if you want to give it a try anyways, I would replace it over a few weeks in sections, so bacteria can migrate into the new stuff to seed it.

stagefright13 · 08/21/2008, 12:06 AM

Well I ended up replacing the front right 25% of the sand bed so far. And glad I did. The water I poured off it down the drain looked like some bad skimmate.

My tips if someone has never done it before are:

I used a 1" vacuum line and it sucked it down pretty good. I rinsed the new Nature's Ocean Aragonite sand in R/O water till it was pretty clean. A bunch of twigs and stuff came out. And alot of cloudy dust. Then I drained the ro water off and rinsed it twice with saltwater.

Final tip. I took the tube off my large gravel vacuum (2.5 to 3 inch?) and covered the end with saran wrap. Filled the pipe with sand then while holding the saran wrap on the pipe with one hand put the pipe down to where I wanted the sand. Then yanked the saran wrap and got a large amount of sand in per shot. I put about 12 pounds in a short amount of time. And all my pets were fine. 'Cept my big Clarkii bit me alot lol...

I also put a 200 micron filter in my sump and a carbon pack in my overflow just in case to catch any debris. Didn't hardly get cloudy.

One thing I did notice when I checked the old sand tho for creatures. I have a bunch of snails evidently that live under there. After sifting the sand I found them and put them back. They quickly dissapeared into the sand on the other side of the tank. Didn't even know I had them and have no clue what they are.

Gonna replace ALL the sand over a few week period. Of course it's impossible to get it all. Gonna wait a while for the first batch to seed well. My Devil's hand coral didn't even flinch an eyebrow. Stayed open the whole time with no effect at all.

DaveMorris · 08/21/2008, 12:56 AM

Two things that I would say here:

1) Sandbeds do not get "old" and "need to be replaced". If you have the right mix of sand dwelling critters in there, then the sand should be fine.

2) IMO, you should NEVER vacuum a sandbed. If it is getting dirty, then you do not have enough detritus eaters for your tank and feeding habits.

I had a 90g tank with a 6" sandbed in it for over 9 years. When I took the tank down, because of a move, none of the sand was clumped together, none of it was black and smelly, and I had billions of stars, worms, snails, pods, and other sandbed life that came out with it. Including two cukes that I didn't even know I had. I persosnally would never consider replacing a sandbed in a running tank. It is absolutely not necessary.

Now all that being said....If you are going to do it, I would do it like you are. Sections at a time. And expect a cycle to happen in your tank just like when it is new. You are stirring everything up and it sounds like your sandbed isn't in very good shape. It will be a shock to the system.

ludnix · 08/21/2008, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DaveMorris
Two things that I would say here:

1) Sandbeds do not get "old" and "need to be replaced". If you have the right mix of sand dwelling critters in there, then the sand should be fine.

2) IMO, you should NEVER vacuum a sandbed. If it is getting dirty, then you do not have enough detritus eaters for your tank and feeding habits.

I had a 90g tank with a 6" sandbed in it for over 9 years. When I took the tank down, because of a move, none of the sand was clumped together, none of it was black and smelly, and I had billions of stars, worms, snails, pods, and other sandbed life that came out with it. Including two cukes that I didn't even know I had. I persosnally would never consider replacing a sandbed in a running tank. It is absolutely not necessary.

Now all that being said....If you are going to do it, I would do it like you are. Sections at a time. And expect a cycle to happen in your tank just like when it is new. You are stirring everything up and it sounds like your sandbed isn't in very good shape. It will be a shock to the system.

Could you recommend some creatures to keep the sand bed healthy long term? I've recently set up our 120, and I'd like to keep the sand bed healthy long-term. We currently have a 2 nassarius snails that came from my previous tank, but I'm sure we are going to need a lot more sand bed based critters.

There's a few mini-stars that I've seen in the rockwork and in the refugium but I haven't noticed any in the sand bed so far.

DaveMorris · 08/22/2008, 12:31 AM

Here is some light reading for you. I really like Dr. Ron and he has taught me a lot about sandbeds.

http://www.ronshimek.com/deep_sand_beds.html

And this is where I got my critters to kick start my sandbed.

http://www.ipsf.com/livesand.html

stagefright13 · 08/22/2008, 06:46 PM

Well I took like a 2 years nap on my tank. Where I did no maintenance at all. Over the past few months I have been slowly bringing it back up to speed. New light, New protien skimmer, new pumps, etc. And the sand has got to go. From 2 years with no water change it is dirty. There is plenty of life in it. But I have to get rid of the crud that built up.

I have also been restocking my cleanup crew too. But only adding a few critters every 2 weeks. I just go slow with everything...

But that is good reading about the sandbeds. I've read many great articles like that over the years. And is the reason I went with a dsb. And I like the look of sand. And many people DO replace it after a certain amount of time.

DaveMorris · 08/22/2008, 11:17 PM

I know that it is done here and there...I just don't feel that it is usually necessary. It sounds like you are taking a good approach to it though.

BTW...what kind of audio work do you do? I am a freelance audio engineer and IATSE stagehand here in San Diego.

Michael · 08/23/2008, 12:25 AM

have a looks at this thread

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...readid=1233581

stagefright13 · 08/23/2008, 09:21 AM

I'm a small studio owner. stagefrightrecords.com I know crazy occupation. I'm either rich or poor lol!
Do mostly mixing but also tracking, voice overs etc.

My sand didn't really smell at all. But had a brown poo pour out of it when I drained the water out of it.

I got my new sump and skimmer in last night. I drilled the little tank for a Kent float valve for top off. Tank is starting to look really nice now. Alot of work the past few months but hey I did take a couple years off... I'll post a few pics when the light comes back on.

My cleanup crew slowly died off over the years. And I didn't replace them. I'm sure that had alot to do with it.

stagefright13 · 08/23/2008, 10:37 AM

And Michael my tank is very similar to that thread but smaller. I even have the same sand and carpet color lol. Maybe my sand is a bit finer tho. Natures ocean aragonite #1. Some of the sand was transfered from my first tank over 7 years ago.

08/16/2008, 02:54 PM	#2
JRechcygl Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Somewhere playing with lamps Posts: 449	It'll be messy thats for sure!! You can put it in slowly as in over a couple days or slowly like a couple cups of sand at a time. Its going to be cloudy! I would personally bite the bullet and put it all in at once. Just use like a cup for measuring or someother scoop and cover the sand as you put it in the tank so it doesn't go all over. Then as you get to the bottom of the tank, release your hand and let it out. Why do you want to take out the sand? __________________ Rechcygl...Yeah only one vowel AKA Dr.Fragenstein Big Glass tank lit by thin glass bulbs Current Tank Info: Propane, 180 reef

08/16/2008, 10:36 PM	#12
LobsterOfJustice Recovering Detritophobe Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 7,443	Putting sand in is easy, just scoop it in a cup, lower it to the bottom, and dump it there. It will be a bit tedious because you have to do it one scoop at a time but it goes faster than you'd think. __________________ If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right. I remember when zoanthids were called things like "green" and "orange" and not "reverse gorilla nipple." Current Tank Info: 180g reef with all the bells and whistles

08/21/2008, 12:56 AM	#15
DaveMorris VP, SDMAS Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Sunny San Diego, CA Posts: 1,309	Two things that I would say here: 1) Sandbeds do not get "old" and "need to be replaced". If you have the right mix of sand dwelling critters in there, then the sand should be fine. 2) IMO, you should NEVER vacuum a sandbed. If it is getting dirty, then you do not have enough detritus eaters for your tank and feeding habits. I had a 90g tank with a 6" sandbed in it for over 9 years. When I took the tank down, because of a move, none of the sand was clumped together, none of it was black and smelly, and I had billions of stars, worms, snails, pods, and other sandbed life that came out with it. Including two cukes that I didn't even know I had. I persosnally would never consider replacing a sandbed in a running tank. It is absolutely not necessary. Now all that being said....If you are going to do it, I would do it like you are. Sections at a time. And expect a cycle to happen in your tank just like when it is new. You are stirring everything up and it sounds like your sandbed isn't in very good shape. It will be a shock to the system. __________________ Dave My 130g tank: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2387989 Current Tank Info: 130g build in progress

08/22/2008, 12:31 AM	#17
DaveMorris VP, SDMAS Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Sunny San Diego, CA Posts: 1,309	Here is some light reading for you. I really like Dr. Ron and he has taught me a lot about sandbeds. http://www.ronshimek.com/deep_sand_beds.html And this is where I got my critters to kick start my sandbed. http://www.ipsf.com/livesand.html __________________ Dave My 130g tank: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2387989 Current Tank Info: 130g build in progress

08/22/2008, 11:17 PM	#19
DaveMorris VP, SDMAS Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Sunny San Diego, CA Posts: 1,309	I know that it is done here and there...I just don't feel that it is usually necessary. It sounds like you are taking a good approach to it though. BTW...what kind of audio work do you do? I am a freelance audio engineer and IATSE stagehand here in San Diego. __________________ Dave My 130g tank: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2387989 Current Tank Info: 130g build in progress

08/16/2008, 01:56 PM	#1
stagefright13 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Hatboro, PA USA Posts: 899	How to replace old sandbed I want to replace my 7 year old sand bed in the next couple weeks. I ordered 40 pounds of sand. Aside from removing all the critters and shells laying in it for the hermits. How do I get it out? And how do I put the new stuff back in? It is pretty deep so I expect some bad stuff to come as I suck it out. I was thinking of using my shop vac hooked to a 1 inch ID water change hose. And have my girlfriend hit the switch on and off when I have it positioned. This ok? But more importantly how do I put the new sand back in? I mean without killing everything in a sand storm. Can I put it back in a little at a time? I ordered 40 pounds of sand. Not sure how much I need. Because it was a long time ago when I set it up. The main is a little 29.

08/16/2008, 03:05 PM	#3
stagefright13 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Hatboro, PA USA Posts: 899	I need to replace it cause it is 7 years old and my Nitrates are at 25+ now. It is used up as far as I can tell. After 15 or 20 0 tds water changes it stays the same. And I added a huge LTA that dug a huge hole in the sand and I think released the trapped nitrates. But hey I might be wrong. Maybe I should just dump more sand in. But how do I lay it gently on the bottom. Obviously I can't pour it in from the surface.... My gut feeling is to suck it all out at once. Then replace it all over a few days somehow.

08/16/2008, 03:24 PM	#4
JustinReef Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,715	I did this once. What I decided to do was remove all my fish and corals and out them in a temporary rubbermaid container with powerhead and sponge filter and a bit of LR. I just wanted to play it safe incase anything really bad came out of the sand. Then I siphoned out all the sand and added all the new stuff. Waited a day and a half for the sandstorm to subside, did a 30% or so water change and then tested the water. All was fine but I think I waited one day to add the fish and corals back. Everything was fine.

08/16/2008, 05:47 PM	#5
stagefright13 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Hatboro, PA USA Posts: 899	thanks for the advice. I am still afraid to do it lol. But have 40 pounds of sand coming. Did you use a shop vac?

08/16/2008, 06:02 PM	#7
stagefright13 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Hatboro, PA USA Posts: 899	Thinking of shop vac and my girlfriend on th trigger. Hooked to a water change hose. Me with hose I think that will be ok. But worried about how to dump that much sand in. Even slowly. I am dumping like .2 mm sand.

08/16/2008, 06:06 PM	#8
markeo99 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: south dakota Posts: 185	get some pvc pipe that will go to the bottom and dump the sand in the pipe I've done that before and it wworked quite well

08/16/2008, 06:57 PM	#9
da1jewfish Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: West Palm, FL Posts: 990	If it were me, I would not takke out the old sand, no way. Instead I would swish the sand up little by little, over the course of a week or so... let the filter and skimmer do the job, plus your filter feeders will love it. How do you expect to filter out the inverts, ie. pods and such thats living in there?

08/16/2008, 07:12 PM	#10
stagefright13 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Hatboro, PA USA Posts: 899	True I put only a cup of sand into a fuge I had and was Pod city after a few weeks.

08/16/2008, 07:20 PM	#11
stagefright13 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Hatboro, PA USA Posts: 899	I vacuumed alot of sand over the years. Should I just dump more in? And how do I pump 20 pounds or more in. I may have to figure this out on my own Building a new sump right now so no hurry but will have to be done. Maybe a new thread...

08/17/2008, 01:21 AM	#13
widmer Drug Enthusiast Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Rochester, MN Posts: 2,958	I haven't a clue who told you that putting new sand in will fix your nitrates. But if you want to give it a try anyways, I would replace it over a few weeks in sections, so bacteria can migrate into the new stuff to seed it.

08/21/2008, 12:06 AM	#14
stagefright13 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Hatboro, PA USA Posts: 899	Well I ended up replacing the front right 25% of the sand bed so far. And glad I did. The water I poured off it down the drain looked like some bad skimmate. My tips if someone has never done it before are: I used a 1" vacuum line and it sucked it down pretty good. I rinsed the new Nature's Ocean Aragonite sand in R/O water till it was pretty clean. A bunch of twigs and stuff came out. And alot of cloudy dust. Then I drained the ro water off and rinsed it twice with saltwater. Final tip. I took the tube off my large gravel vacuum (2.5 to 3 inch?) and covered the end with saran wrap. Filled the pipe with sand then while holding the saran wrap on the pipe with one hand put the pipe down to where I wanted the sand. Then yanked the saran wrap and got a large amount of sand in per shot. I put about 12 pounds in a short amount of time. And all my pets were fine. 'Cept my big Clarkii bit me alot lol... I also put a 200 micron filter in my sump and a carbon pack in my overflow just in case to catch any debris. Didn't hardly get cloudy. One thing I did notice when I checked the old sand tho for creatures. I have a bunch of snails evidently that live under there. After sifting the sand I found them and put them back. They quickly dissapeared into the sand on the other side of the tank. Didn't even know I had them and have no clue what they are. Gonna replace ALL the sand over a few week period. Of course it's impossible to get it all. Gonna wait a while for the first batch to seed well. My Devil's hand coral didn't even flinch an eyebrow. Stayed open the whole time with no effect at all.

08/22/2008, 06:46 PM	#18
stagefright13 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Hatboro, PA USA Posts: 899	Well I took like a 2 years nap on my tank. Where I did no maintenance at all. Over the past few months I have been slowly bringing it back up to speed. New light, New protien skimmer, new pumps, etc. And the sand has got to go. From 2 years with no water change it is dirty. There is plenty of life in it. But I have to get rid of the crud that built up. I have also been restocking my cleanup crew too. But only adding a few critters every 2 weeks. I just go slow with everything... But that is good reading about the sandbeds. I've read many great articles like that over the years. And is the reason I went with a dsb. And I like the look of sand. And many people DO replace it after a certain amount of time.

08/23/2008, 12:25 AM	#20
Michael NTTH Rookie Help Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Gloucester, England,UK Posts: 7,808 Blog Entries: 6	have a looks at this thread http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...readid=1233581 __________________ Don't be afraid to ask questions, we in the new to the hobby are here to help you [For My Tank Spec,Photo Album,Articles and website, click on my name] MY Very Kindest and Warmest Regards , MIKE Current Tank Info: I have a 92 gal Corner Tank, and way too many pieces of equipment to list really, (proud member of the reef central corner club)

08/23/2008, 09:21 AM	#21
stagefright13 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Hatboro, PA USA Posts: 899	I'm a small studio owner. stagefrightrecords.com I know crazy occupation. I'm either rich or poor lol! Do mostly mixing but also tracking, voice overs etc. My sand didn't really smell at all. But had a brown poo pour out of it when I drained the water out of it. I got my new sump and skimmer in last night. I drilled the little tank for a Kent float valve for top off. Tank is starting to look really nice now. Alot of work the past few months but hey I did take a couple years off... I'll post a few pics when the light comes back on. My cleanup crew slowly died off over the years. And I didn't replace them. I'm sure that had alot to do with it. Last edited by stagefright13; 08/23/2008 at 09:27 AM.

08/23/2008, 10:37 AM	#22
stagefright13 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Hatboro, PA USA Posts: 899	And Michael my tank is very similar to that thread but smaller. I even have the same sand and carpet color lol. Maybe my sand is a bit finer tho. Natures ocean aragonite #1. Some of the sand was transfered from my first tank over 7 years ago. Last edited by stagefright13; 08/23/2008 at 10:42 AM.