noob with a Q

alpine36 · 08/21/2008, 12:37 PM

thinking about switching over my 90 gal. cichlid tank to salt.

Don't want to do major mods to my setup.

Can I still use my tetratec pf500 hang on back filter?

what else would I need?

I have testing kits.

I'm sure I have sufficient lighting for fish.

JRechcygl · 08/21/2008, 12:41 PM

I suppose you could use that filter, its not the best but it'll do. You'll want to invest in power heads as well as a protein skimmer bare minimum

alpine36 · 08/21/2008, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JRechcygl
I suppose you could use that filter, its not the best but it'll do. You'll want to invest in power heads as well as a protein skimmer bare minimum

thanks for the quick reply.

i was thinking protien skimmer too. I would like to keep my system as quite as possible as the tank is in my room and I'm a light sleeper. Which skimmer can I get that does a good job while being quite.

Power heads to create current?
Can I use timers to activate them at the right timing to create a wave effect?
What powerheads do you reccomend for my size tank and where can I souerce some good timer units for the heads?

anything else to assure a stong system?

i would need to ro the water, right? any cheap units that work good?

refugium? Is that to maintain water quality?

Sk8r · 08/21/2008, 12:46 PM

Better go no-filter, with circulation pumps.
Best, go sump with return pump.
Live rock and skimmer does the filtration in a marine tank unless way many fish. A reef with fish: no mechanical filtration.

What you need for a reef: a HOB skimmer, a HOB (hangon) downflow box, a 30 g sump with partitiions, a mag 9 or 12 return pump, 90 lbs live-rock base rock combo; 90 lbs aragonite sand. And lights up to T5, no need for mh unless you want clams or the branching-stick corals. You'd need to discard all sand (bacteria don't match: it'd be a foaming mess) and ream out the tank with white vinegar. This is assuming you never used it for copper meds: that's lethal to inverts including your tank bacteria.

Marine tanks have a high and constant gurgle factor: like living with a loud fountain always on. The pumps are noisy. The lid fans are noisy. You have to make your peace with those sounds and just accept them. The only grace you have is that they never change. Alternatively you can put everything but the fans and the gurgle downstairs in the basement if you run two lines through your floor.

alpine36 · 08/21/2008, 12:51 PM

no mechanical filtration??

i can't use the sand from my cichlid setup?

bacteria don't match? As in cichlid bacteria?

Ream out the tank? wipe it down with vinigar you mean??

How do I subscribe to a thread?

Michael · 08/21/2008, 01:04 PM

start again, live rock and vigorous water movement should be your main filteration, sump if you can fit 1 in, you can then run a skimmer and phosban reactor on or in the sump and use it for top ups etc, ditch the cyclid sand, best to start with new, to subscribe to a thread click on the subscribe link at the first post,

alpine36 · 08/21/2008, 01:06 PM

subscribe link?

what powerheads do you reccomend for a 90 gal.

i plan on getting 2, 1 on each side.

Can I use 2 of these. without the controller??
http://www.petmountain.com/product/w...powerhead.html

masonicman · 08/21/2008, 01:17 PM

alpine36

I did the same thing that you are starting. I went from brackish to salt and tried to do it with my existing but good equipment. I think it caused more problems the good. As of today I have replaced every piece of equipment except the tank and bought much more. This hobby is addicting to get your tank perfect.

Sk8r · 08/21/2008, 01:24 PM

Go to the top of this forum thread listings and find the 2 that start with *.
Those two are the distillation of all the things you need to know.
About the only things that will work from the freshwater setup are your tank, your stand, and maybe your lights. Your filter might work for a quarantine setup...which you also need.

alpine36 · 08/21/2008, 01:27 PM

#2 It is not showing up. Maybe because I am new.
what power heads should I get? I plan on getting a controller in the future to replicate waves.
i would like to get a pair of power heads that I can later on control with a controller.

alpine36 · 08/21/2008, 02:18 PM

than the koralia 4 be used without the controller wave maker?

Sk8r · 08/21/2008, 02:22 PM

Try this link:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...readid=1031074

matthewscars · 08/21/2008, 02:22 PM

Honestly, I've done the 'cheap' set up a few years back. It's not worth it. This is one of those hobbies where the more money you spend and the more planning you do the better. You really cant half *** a salt/reef tank.

Ditch all your EQ you have right now, its useless. If you have a 90, expect to spend about $2,500-4,000 just to get it going.

You *need*:

30g Sump
Skimmer
T5 lighting (Get a NEP

)
New Sand
New Live Rock
Plumbing supplies
RODI system
Brute Trash can
Marine Testing supplies
TDS meter
Fragging EQ (if reef)
3x Koralia 3 or 4 pumps (or comperable)
heather
cooling fan
Ranco temp controller
2x Phosban Reactors
PH Meter (trust me its better than testing)
Refractometer
Salt mix (one bucket every 2 months)
Plastic Sleeves
tons of 5 gallon buckets

AND a crap load of little things that im forgetting.

Its not just 'oh im gonna switch over', its 'oh, im going to switch and i need to be prepared to spend $5,000 in the next 6 months on this hobby.'

Plus i literally spend 6 months reading this site every day and asking tons of questions to get a feel for what is what in the reefing hobby.

Good luck man.

alpine36 · 08/21/2008, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by alpine36
than the koralia 4 be used without the controller wave maker?

can I use it without the controller? does it use a special plug?

matthewscars · 08/21/2008, 02:30 PM

You need to buy the K4's especially made for the wavemaker (DC I believe). They are different from the AC K4s.

electraglide999 · 08/21/2008, 02:30 PM

power heads for water movement.

matthewscars · 08/21/2008, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by alpine36

Can I use 2 of these. without the controller??
http://www.petmountain.com/product/w...powerhead.html

"NOTE: Must Use a Koralia Wavemaker 2 Basic -or- Koralia Wavemaker 4 Deluxe controller to power these pumps! "

Rustylugnuts · 08/21/2008, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by alpine36
than the koralia 4 be used without the controller wave maker?

There are 2 different sets of koralias controllable(DC) and standard(AC). The standard koralia can run standalone with out a wavemaker but can run into problems when you try to put one on a controller.

toolfan · 08/21/2008, 03:33 PM

While I agree that the journey you are thinking about embarking on will most certainly be more expensive than anything you are used to being in the FW hobby. some of the items listed above are flat out incorrect to say the least. You dont need to have 2 phosban reactors, nor do you NEED T5 lighting. you dont NEED live rock, Koralia PH or a Ranco controller. these are all things that a lot of us do have but certainly not a must. An RO unit is nice but not a necessity. Many people use their local LFS to buy their water. Heck, many people on this site are able to use their tap water for their FO tanks.

If you are planning on simply having fish (no inverts) then simple NO flouresc lighting is fine. If your tank is not RR then I would suggest purchasing an overflow box and a 30 tank to use as a sump. (this is where most of your equipment will be housed as well as a refugium for nutrient exprt) a good skimmer is probably the most important peice of equipment you will buy. (kept in the sump) some powerheads for water movement (cheap maxijets will suffice), salt, hydrometer (although I strongly suggest a refractometer), I would also suggest the use of LR as your source of filtration (it isnt required to be successful but it's strongly recommended). I also would not recommend the use of the sand currently in your tank. Play sand purchased at HD will work fine (stay clear of silica based). you will need salt to make water with and some good testing supplies (Salifert is not the best but in my experiences, a good, middle of the road product that render accurate results.

alpine36 · 08/21/2008, 04:29 PM

thanks.
i will eventually cough up the dough for saltwater.

But need to unload all my cichlids first.

Sk8r · 08/21/2008, 04:29 PM

Yes, before we scare this new reefer into next week, let's also mention the cheapest way into this hobby to be able to keep very many things, and that is the Aquapod, Solana, etc, ---the all-in-ones. They have miniaturized but functional equipment, let you learn the ropes until you're sure whether this is for you, you use it until you get too ambitious---and then you sell it on to the next person. A used Aquapod could get you into the hobby for not very much cash at all: new, they're around 300.00. Check out Foster-smith etc, on the all-in-ones and then check out the Used Equipment forum and you may feel a lot less wallet-shock!
There are quite a few marine fish and inverts that do nicely in a pod: the smallest clowns, gobies, blennies, all colorful and personable fish: these are good systems, and you don't have to be a master chemist or plumber to get set up: they work pretty well out of the box, some sand, live rock, and a month's patience and you're up and running.

Sk8r · 08/21/2008, 04:29 PM

Yes, before we scare this new reefer into next week, let's also mention the cheapest way into this hobby to be able to keep very many things, and that is the Aquapod, Solana, etc, ---the all-in-ones. They have miniaturized but functional equipment, let you learn the ropes until you're sure whether this is for you, you use it until you get too ambitious---and then you sell it on to the next person. A used Aquapod could get you into the hobby for not very much cash at all: new, they're around 300.00. Check out Foster-smith etc, on the all-in-ones and then check out the Used Equipment forum and you may feel a lot less wallet-shock!
There are quite a few marine fish and inverts that do nicely in a pod: the smallest clowns, gobies, blennies, all colorful and personable fish: these are good systems, and you don't have to be a master chemist or plumber to get set up: they work pretty well out of the box, some sand, live rock, and a month's patience and you're up and running.

Im14abeer · 08/21/2008, 09:44 PM

Hi alpine, you can limp in to saltwater, but consider this. Doing things "right" from the start is always less expensive and more rewarding. I put right in quotes because there are multiple ways of accomplishing your goals, and here at reef central, they've all been tried. The first thing to decide is what you aim to keep, then build the system around the most demanding specimens.

This hobby has a huge attrition rate, IMO because people get in over their heads right away, too much, too fast. That doesn't have to happen. If you make good use of the search function and resources here and other sites, you can avoid the mistakes that drive others back to freshwater or out of the hobby.

That said, regardless of what you intend to keep, if it were me I'd...

1) Drill the tank for overflows. The tank will be empty and HOB overflows, though better than ever, are always a potential flood source.

2) Get the biggest tank that will fit in your stand for a sump/fuge

3) Replace the sandbed

4) Get some live rock

5) Find a protein skimmer, properly sized to your tank, and with a good reputation.

6) Refractometer, hydrometers are mostly junk, and good ones cost as much as a refractometer. (read about proper calibration)

7) Read, Read, Read. This is more important than all the equipment. If you do enough reading, you'll know for yourself what will likely work and what likely won't.

8) Don't take criticism too hard, for one thing tone doesn't come across in this medium. And those who have harsh words for your mistakes have almost certainly made those mistakes themselves.

Good luck and one other thing... if you haven't found the subscribe link yet, look under the reply box at the end of the thread. There's the three boxes for submit, spell check and reset. Under that are three links, it's the one to the far right.

alpine36 · 08/25/2008, 08:33 AM

thanks for all the replies.

I will eventually go to salt water if the time ever comes.

I realize that it will take the bulk of my time and money once i get started, so I'm going to simplify the rest of my life first in preparation.

Not sure yet, what I want to keep.

I love corals, I also love critters, and predatory fish are cool looking, but I am aware that not all species get along. i would like to have a sea horse and a eel as well, if possible..

i'm mainly scared of losing my fish because of some small parasite or illness, or just plan old water imbalance, due to lack of testing periodically.

08/21/2008, 12:37 PM	#1
alpine36 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: ct Posts: 49	noob with a Q thinking about switching over my 90 gal. cichlid tank to salt. Don't want to do major mods to my setup. Can I still use my tetratec pf500 hang on back filter? what else would I need? I have testing kits. I'm sure I have sufficient lighting for fish.

08/21/2008, 12:46 PM	#4
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Better go no-filter, with circulation pumps. Best, go sump with return pump. Live rock and skimmer does the filtration in a marine tank unless way many fish. A reef with fish: no mechanical filtration. What you need for a reef: a HOB skimmer, a HOB (hangon) downflow box, a 30 g sump with partitiions, a mag 9 or 12 return pump, 90 lbs live-rock base rock combo; 90 lbs aragonite sand. And lights up to T5, no need for mh unless you want clams or the branching-stick corals. You'd need to discard all sand (bacteria don't match: it'd be a foaming mess) and ream out the tank with white vinegar. This is assuming you never used it for copper meds: that's lethal to inverts including your tank bacteria. Marine tanks have a high and constant gurgle factor: like living with a loud fountain always on. The pumps are noisy. The lid fans are noisy. You have to make your peace with those sounds and just accept them. The only grace you have is that they never change. Alternatively you can put everything but the fans and the gurgle downstairs in the basement if you run two lines through your floor. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

08/21/2008, 01:04 PM	#6
Michael NTTH Rookie Help Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Gloucester, England,UK Posts: 7,808 Blog Entries: 6	start again, live rock and vigorous water movement should be your main filteration, sump if you can fit 1 in, you can then run a skimmer and phosban reactor on or in the sump and use it for top ups etc, ditch the cyclid sand, best to start with new, to subscribe to a thread click on the subscribe link at the first post, __________________ Don't be afraid to ask questions, we in the new to the hobby are here to help you [For My Tank Spec,Photo Album,Articles and website, click on my name] MY Very Kindest and Warmest Regards , MIKE Current Tank Info: I have a 92 gal Corner Tank, and way too many pieces of equipment to list really, (proud member of the reef central corner club)

08/21/2008, 01:06 PM	#7
alpine36 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: ct Posts: 49	subscribe link? what powerheads do you reccomend for a 90 gal. i plan on getting 2, 1 on each side. Can I use 2 of these. without the controller?? http://www.petmountain.com/product/w...powerhead.html Last edited by alpine36; 08/21/2008 at 01:21 PM.

08/21/2008, 01:17 PM	#8
masonicman Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: NJ Posts: 1,313	alpine36 I did the same thing that you are starting. I went from brackish to salt and tried to do it with my existing but good equipment. I think it caused more problems the good. As of today I have replaced every piece of equipment except the tank and bought much more. This hobby is addicting to get your tank perfect. __________________ It is better to ask for forgiveness then to ask for permission.......... Current Tank Info: 75 gal mixed reef, 216w LED, Remora Pro skimmer, HOB fuge, 400w htr, ATO RO/DI, 90lbs LR and 1" SB.

08/21/2008, 12:41 PM	#2
JRechcygl Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Somewhere playing with lamps Posts: 449	I suppose you could use that filter, its not the best but it'll do. You'll want to invest in power heads as well as a protein skimmer bare minimum __________________ Rechcygl...Yeah only one vowel AKA Dr.Fragenstein Big Glass tank lit by thin glass bulbs Current Tank Info: Propane, 180 reef

08/21/2008, 12:51 PM	#5
alpine36 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: ct Posts: 49	no mechanical filtration?? i can't use the sand from my cichlid setup? bacteria don't match? As in cichlid bacteria? Ream out the tank? wipe it down with vinigar you mean?? How do I subscribe to a thread?

08/21/2008, 01:24 PM	#9
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Go to the top of this forum thread listings and find the 2 that start with *. Those two are the distillation of all the things you need to know. About the only things that will work from the freshwater setup are your tank, your stand, and maybe your lights. Your filter might work for a quarantine setup...which you also need. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

08/21/2008, 01:27 PM	#10
alpine36 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: ct Posts: 49	#2 It is not showing up. Maybe because I am new. what power heads should I get? I plan on getting a controller in the future to replicate waves. i would like to get a pair of power heads that I can later on control with a controller.

08/21/2008, 02:18 PM	#11
alpine36 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: ct Posts: 49	than the koralia 4 be used without the controller wave maker?

08/21/2008, 02:22 PM	#12
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Try this link: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...readid=1031074 __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

08/21/2008, 02:22 PM	#13
matthewscars Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Astoria, NY Posts: 657	Honestly, I've done the 'cheap' set up a few years back. It's not worth it. This is one of those hobbies where the more money you spend and the more planning you do the better. You really cant half *** a salt/reef tank. Ditch all your EQ you have right now, its useless. If you have a 90, expect to spend about $2,500-4,000 just to get it going. You need: 30g Sump Skimmer T5 lighting (Get a NEP ) New Sand New Live Rock Plumbing supplies RODI system Brute Trash can Marine Testing supplies TDS meter Fragging EQ (if reef) 3x Koralia 3 or 4 pumps (or comperable) heather cooling fan Ranco temp controller 2x Phosban Reactors PH Meter (trust me its better than testing) Refractometer Salt mix (one bucket every 2 months) Plastic Sleeves tons of 5 gallon buckets AND a crap load of little things that im forgetting. Its not just 'oh im gonna switch over', its 'oh, im going to switch and i need to be prepared to spend $5,000 in the next 6 months on this hobby.' Plus i literally spend 6 months reading this site every day and asking tons of questions to get a feel for what is what in the reefing hobby. Good luck man. __________________ A plane passed silently overhead, the streetlights, and the buds on the trees and the night, were still. Current Tank Info: 90g Reef/35g Sump with Foam Rock Wall. 10g Propagation Reef. 55g Goldfish Tank.

08/21/2008, 02:30 PM	#15
matthewscars Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Astoria, NY Posts: 657	You need to buy the K4's especially made for the wavemaker (DC I believe). They are different from the AC K4s. __________________ A plane passed silently overhead, the streetlights, and the buds on the trees and the night, were still. Current Tank Info: 90g Reef/35g Sump with Foam Rock Wall. 10g Propagation Reef. 55g Goldfish Tank.

08/21/2008, 02:30 PM	#16
electraglide999 Moved On Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: wisconsin Posts: 130	power heads for water movement.

08/21/2008, 03:33 PM	#19
toolfan Moved On Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Boston,Ma Posts: 87	While I agree that the journey you are thinking about embarking on will most certainly be more expensive than anything you are used to being in the FW hobby. some of the items listed above are flat out incorrect to say the least. You dont need to have 2 phosban reactors, nor do you NEED T5 lighting. you dont NEED live rock, Koralia PH or a Ranco controller. these are all things that a lot of us do have but certainly not a must. An RO unit is nice but not a necessity. Many people use their local LFS to buy their water. Heck, many people on this site are able to use their tap water for their FO tanks. If you are planning on simply having fish (no inverts) then simple NO flouresc lighting is fine. If your tank is not RR then I would suggest purchasing an overflow box and a 30 tank to use as a sump. (this is where most of your equipment will be housed as well as a refugium for nutrient exprt) a good skimmer is probably the most important peice of equipment you will buy. (kept in the sump) some powerheads for water movement (cheap maxijets will suffice), salt, hydrometer (although I strongly suggest a refractometer), I would also suggest the use of LR as your source of filtration (it isnt required to be successful but it's strongly recommended). I also would not recommend the use of the sand currently in your tank. Play sand purchased at HD will work fine (stay clear of silica based). you will need salt to make water with and some good testing supplies (Salifert is not the best but in my experiences, a good, middle of the road product that render accurate results.

08/21/2008, 04:29 PM	#20
alpine36 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: ct Posts: 49	thanks. i will eventually cough up the dough for saltwater. But need to unload all my cichlids first.

08/21/2008, 09:44 PM	#23
Im14abeer BRILLIANT! Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Grosse Pointe Farms, MI Posts: 406	Hi alpine, you can limp in to saltwater, but consider this. Doing things "right" from the start is always less expensive and more rewarding. I put right in quotes because there are multiple ways of accomplishing your goals, and here at reef central, they've all been tried. The first thing to decide is what you aim to keep, then build the system around the most demanding specimens. This hobby has a huge attrition rate, IMO because people get in over their heads right away, too much, too fast. That doesn't have to happen. If you make good use of the search function and resources here and other sites, you can avoid the mistakes that drive others back to freshwater or out of the hobby. That said, regardless of what you intend to keep, if it were me I'd... 1) Drill the tank for overflows. The tank will be empty and HOB overflows, though better than ever, are always a potential flood source. 2) Get the biggest tank that will fit in your stand for a sump/fuge 3) Replace the sandbed 4) Get some live rock 5) Find a protein skimmer, properly sized to your tank, and with a good reputation. 6) Refractometer, hydrometers are mostly junk, and good ones cost as much as a refractometer. (read about proper calibration) 7) Read, Read, Read. This is more important than all the equipment. If you do enough reading, you'll know for yourself what will likely work and what likely won't. 8) Don't take criticism too hard, for one thing tone doesn't come across in this medium. And those who have harsh words for your mistakes have almost certainly made those mistakes themselves. Good luck and one other thing... if you haven't found the subscribe link yet, look under the reply box at the end of the thread. There's the three boxes for submit, spell check and reset. Under that are three links, it's the one to the far right. __________________ Veni, vidi, fishi Current Tank Info: Mixed 235 "reefin' in the corner." Reefbreeders 48 & 32. 2x Tunze 6255 on a 7096, Basement sump, Avast cs1, mag 18 return. Chaeto, kalk.

08/25/2008, 08:33 AM	#24
alpine36 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: ct Posts: 49	thanks for all the replies. I will eventually go to salt water if the time ever comes. I realize that it will take the bulk of my time and money once i get started, so I'm going to simplify the rest of my life first in preparation. Not sure yet, what I want to keep. I love corals, I also love critters, and predatory fish are cool looking, but I am aware that not all species get along. i would like to have a sea horse and a eel as well, if possible.. i'm mainly scared of losing my fish because of some small parasite or illness, or just plan old water imbalance, due to lack of testing periodically.