Fresh to Salt Conversion

[Shuumai]

I have a 55 gallon tank that I want to convert to a marine fish-mostly tank. It has a metal stand. (I'm a little concerned about corrosion.) I have a choice of a Fluval 304 or a Magnum 350 w/bio-wheels canister filter. I have two fluorescent lights on individual timers and a dual-outlet air pump. The substrate is fine gravel. One heater.

Is the metal stand an issue? Would a stand made of MDF be any better?

Should I totally replace the substrate of unknown composition with aragonite or something?

[Rae C.]

If you don't know what was in the tank before, definitely change out the substrate.

Metal stand should be okay, just keep it clean to avoid salt corrosion.

[shuguley]

Welcom to Reef Central Shuumai!

First of all, you have made the first and most important step in learning about saltwater/reef aquariums... you came to reefcentral.com and asked for advice, there are a lot of great people here with a wealth of knowledge ready to help, but you have a lot of reading to do. Start by going and reading the first two threads in the "New To Hobby" forum.

Second, generally people do not use "bio-wheel canister filters" on salt aquariums, we like to use live rock and live sand and good flow for filtration. And yes, you should replace the gravel with aragonite, I'm not sure about the metal stand though.

Third, ask lots of questions and have fun!

[NaClH20reeffish]

To Reef Central

[otrlynn]

Hello. Have you looked at the two threads at the top of this forum marked with a * ? They contain great information for anyone new to saltwater. I go back and refer to them time and time again. Regarding the metal stand. You will probably have some corrosion due to dripped saltwater unless you are a neater reefer than I am. I had a 29 gallon marine tank on a metal stand for about 6 months and had this problem, though I will admit the finish on the stand was not in great shape to begin with (yes, it was the stand from an old freshwater tank). Also, you may want to have a sump below your tank, and though it probably could go on the bottom of your stand, there's a lot of "stuff" that goes with salt water that is not particularly attractive. A closed stand may better suit your purposes. You will not want to have to drain/move your tank once it is set up. Also, as noted above, your live rock and skimmer will make a canister filter unnecessary.

[dcog277]

The only thing I can recommend is to ask a lot of questions here before you go to the fish store. They will try to sell you everything.

[Shuumai]

I calculated the actual water volume of my 55 gallon tank to be 48 gallons. The base is roughly 4'x1'. How many pounds of aragonite should I use for a thin sand bed? This is the product I have in mind: http://www.petsmart.com/product/inde...ductId=2753226

A person at a pet shop suggested adding 5 pounds of live sand to whatever amount of aragonite that I use. Good?

I've heard of people using play sand for a substrate. Is that mad?

Is a canister filter useful at least for creating flow? The Fluval 304 is rated at 260 US gallons/hour. The Magnum 350 is rated at 350 gallons/hour. (I can remove the bio-wheels.)

I'm considering either re-painting my metal stand to help protect it from the salt, or getting a wooden stand that I saw on Craig's List for $40 USD. I've spilled plenty of fresh water on the stand, so keeping it dry isn't an option.

(In the past I thought of putting a curtain or tablecloth around the base of the metal stand to hide the mess. What? heh)

[Rae C.]

I wonder if a light coat of veggie oil onthe metal will protect it from the salt water. I think a curtain sounds fine, easy to change as desired.

[otrlynn]

From my understanding; you can use the canister to create flow. I don't have one, so I'm not real knowledgeable about them but I believe that the downside is whatever medium you use in them can become a trap for nitrates. If you are religious about cleaning it out (weekly?) that would be less of a problem. It is good to add a small bit of live sand to your dry sand, but the problem is that what is sold as bagged live sand, doesn't really have much living in it. If you can get a cup or two of live sand from an established tank, that is much better. Even if you can't, your "dead" sand will soon become live from your live rock, assuming you are planning on having live rock. It really is the mainstay of the biological filtration in the tank. I don't know the answer to your play sand question. I have read pros and cons on here regarding it... Just a reminder to rinse any sand that you use to cut down on cloudiness in the tank. Fill a 5 gallon bucket about one third full of sand and agitate like mad with water blasting from your garden hose, pour off the cloudy water and repeat several times with each bucket. You can do a final rinse with RODI water if you want to make sure that there is nothing harmful in the tap water you used. However, I didn't bother and I think that most people don't.

[tspors]

Hello,
If I can make one suggestion about getting information from your local pet store...... Only and I say that ONLY take advice from a local store if the store is owner operated. Not a chain. Owner operated stores have a bigger investment in you. Chain stares could care less about causing you issues. If they own the store their reputation is on the line everytime they give advice.

[Shuumai]

What if I start with sand only as far as bacteria goes?

Would the bacteria in my present system (filter media, lava rock) help jumpstart the marine tank, or is the bacteria different?

As far as filter media goes, the canister only requires a mechanical filter to block particles from reaching the impeller. In addition, the Fluval has three sets of media baskets; the Magnum has one.

I have a photo of my current gravel with a ruler. Is it just the size or the composition that matters?

[seapug]

Don't buy a canister or bio wheel filter, but if you already have one you can use it for flow or running carbon. You're going to want some sort of surface skimmer for the water intake. Reef tanks generate a lot of crap that turns into film on the water surface. A surface skimming overflow that empties to a sump then is pumped back to the main tank is ideal. If the tank isn't drilled, look into a simple HOB U-Tube overflow.

Dump the gravel and get a bag of dry coarse or fine aragonite.

[Shuumai]

OK, aragonite it is.

Yeah, I own the canisters already. The bio-wheels are just an attachment to the outlet line of the Magnum. I thought that the wheels would act like a trickle filter.

I'm going to do fish-only I think. I guess some live rock will be added since people keep saying how important it is.

I'm starting to get the idea that everything except the tank itself needs to be changed. heh

[otrlynn]

Yes, you are right, not much to transfer to a saltwater tank. Do not use your filter media from the freshwater tank; the bacteria are different. I would do some research about the lava rock and assume that you should not put it in unless a reliable source tells you that it will not cause problems. I would worry about something leaching out of it. Did you ever use a copper based medication in your freshwater tank? If so, everything needs to be very thoroughly cleaned. Anything that may have absorbed it needs to be thrown away. Invertebrates (the clean-up crew that you will want to help keep your substrate clean) are very sensitive to copper and cannot tolerate it.

[Shuumai]

How are bio-wheels different from trickle filters when it comes to aerobic bacteria?

Ah, the canister might be able to run without the mechanical filter media if carbon is not used either. Don't power heads work that way? Even better if I could put the outlet at one side of the tank and the intake at the opposite end.

So far, I'm thinking of doing the following: 80 pounds of fine aragonite, at least one live rock, maybe some plant life, and some hardy fish. Am I still falling short of crossing the threshold? (Sounding more like freshwater still? heh)

I've seen refractometers on ebay for about $30 USD total. Good?

[mindytoy]

hi and welcome.... do not use the canisters. i had a 404 and all it did was rise nitrates! it did create a nice flow, BUT nothing a small powerhead couldnt do. dont use them trust me, even if you take out all the media. you can use it IF you want to be breaking it up and cleaning it once or twice a week. its a PITA because you have to break the syphon, take out the water in the hoses, etc etc...not worth anything in saltwater

[Shuumai]

Eh? The 304 has a valve to hold the water in the hoses. Right...nitrates.

Anyway, which size aragonite to use? The store has one type that has 0.5 to 1mm grains. Then there is the 00lite one with "sugar" size grains. Maybe mix them?

Is a hang-on-tank protein skimmer good?

[otrlynn]

Size of sand is a matter of preference. I have the sugar size sand and it is somewhat challenging to get enough flow to keep detritus from settling on the bottom, without blowing the sand all over the place. If I had it to do again, I'd get something a little courser. The recommended amount of live rock for a marine tank is a minimum of one pound of rock per gallon of water. So, you should be looking at 50-75 lbs. of rock. If you buy really large pieces, you will be limited in how you could arrange them. You can grow "plants" (macro-algae) in the display tank, but you need to research what you put in there. Some plants, like caulerpa, are attractive initially but will spread like weeds and take over the tank. Many people use a form of macro-algae (chaetomorpha) in a refugium. It is there to use use up nitrates rather than for looks (it's pretty ugly). You can use a hang-on-back skimmer if you don't have a sump. Most experienced people will tell you that there are many benefits to a sump like increased water volume and the opportunity to get equipment like the skimmer and heaters out of the display. I would suggest you pick up a copy of "The Consciencious Marine Aquarist" It will help with understanding the "why" of many of the things you will read on here.

[mindytoy]

i mean to clean the filter dude you have to remove the canisters etc... it produces LOTS of nitrates.... do not use it unless you want to be cleaning it atleast once a week....

[Shuumai]

Well, I've gotten a lot of great advice. The concept of a nano reef caught my attention. Right now, I might keep my 55g as a freshwater tank.

[Taqpol]

Nanos are good if you are scared of the money investment involved with live rock, sand, and others supplies that are based on tank size. For this exact reason I started a nano and now I'm really kicking myself because I want to upgrade to a larger tank (75-90 gallon). Literally for $10-$50 more than what I paid to light my 20 gallon tall I could be lighting a 4 foot tank...

[Shuumai]

I have a 20 gallon long tank. I think I saw something about nanos less than 20g. How low can you go?!

[ILoveReefer]

I've seen refractometers on ebay for about $30 USD total. Good?
There pretty good for 30 bucks. I would deffinetly recommend it. I have had mine for a year or so and is dead on. You do have to recalibrate every so often but it's easy to do.