Making equipment list - suggestions please

bacawarrior · 10/22/2008, 10:23 AM

Ok, so I've been throwing some ideas around, and need advice on what equipment would be best. I'm working up a wish list of equipment for my setup, but want the best for my purposes. For example... I could run out and buy a skimmer "rated" for x number of gallons, but I would have no idea if it was a good one or not, since I'm new. So here goes.

What I have come up with so far:
145g reef tank 54x26x24
two overflows
Closed Loop with one intake and 4 returns
Haven't decided what to do about a sump/fuge yet, but it will be at least a 39g tank, if not larger.
T5/MH combo, probably 4 T5s and two MHs
Gravity fed auto top off from reservoir built into cabinet
Central power supply of GFCIs controlled by a DJ board
Rena filstar xp1 to run carbon.
two 200w heaters and one 150 as a backup
UV sterilizer
Refractometer and PH meter
I already have a varied assortment of maxi jets, 600s, 900s, and a couple of 1200s.

1. What would be a good skimmer for my purposes? It will eventually be a reef with several fish... EVENTUALLY. LOL It'll take a while to stock this giant on a college students budget.

2. What about flow rate and return pumps from the sump? I was thinking maybe two mag 5s with two returns. Also, what size returns and drains? I need to know what size bulkheads to plan on installing.

3. Same questions for the closed loop. What size drain and returns, and what flow rate pump should I get? It won't have much headloss, I plan on mounting it right under the top of the cabinet.

4. What temp lights, and should I look at maybe 3MHs instead of only two? I plan on timers using the t5s with both regular and actinic bulbs for "sunrise" and "sunset", and the MHs for "mid day".

5. What about the various reactors there are, such as Kalk and phosban?

6. What wattage and or brand of UV sterilizer should I look at?

I guess that's about it for now. I'll have lots and lots of other questions later on.

Thanks

Jocko · 10/22/2008, 11:22 AM

Just want to throw out a few things, since I know you don't have enough to think about as it is.

-Are you sure you want the closed loop. They aren't as popular as they used to be. I think the complexity is often sited as a problem. Also modern powerheads tend to be very efficient and not give off a lot of heat. I think the added flexibility in placement combined with the lack of plumbing has made powerheads the more popular choice these days. Maybe I'm wrong though.

-What is the carbon and UV sterilizer for? Are you sure you need those? Any time you can eliminate something (yielding a simpler setup), that's a win in my book. At the least, these are things you can wait and get later, long after you tank has started cycling with live rock. Same goes for the kalk and phosban.

-Did you order the tank yet? What is the motivation for 2 overflows? I've heard many people lament the loss of space caused by 2 large overflows. Something to keep in mind.

bacawarrior · 10/22/2008, 11:51 AM

The closed loop was suggested to me by TGreene, who does professional setups for a living. He puts one in pretty much all his systems. I like the idea of it cause I'm going to do a rock/foam wall, and can hide it in there. Won't have powerheads hanging all over the place, and I can put two loclines on each return to really customize the flow.

I know I won't need the carbon and UV till later on, I'm just trying to make my plans now so that I can add anything I want to it later on. Basically, I want to have everything ready to just plug in any items I may want to add later on. Same with the Kalk reactors, etc.

I'm going to have the glass cut and drilled at a shop, then build the tank myself, so I guess i actually could just put one overflow in the corner, and hide it behind the rock/foam wall. I'm only going to have two viewing panes with the way I'm designing my stand. The front, and left end. There will be a cabinet on the right end.

I'm about to start working on a computer design of my plans. I may post it when I get it all worked up.

bacawarrior · 10/22/2008, 11:55 AM

The closed loop was suggested to me by TGreene, who does professional setups for a living. He puts one in pretty much all his systems. I like the idea of it cause I'm going to do a rock/foam wall, and can hide it in there. Won't have powerheads hanging all over the place, and I can put two loclines on each return to really customize the flow.

I know I won't need the carbon and UV till later on, I'm just trying to make my plans now so that I can add anything I want to it later on. Basically, I want to have everything ready to just plug in any items I may want to add later on. Same with the Kalk reactors, etc.

I'm going to have the glass cut and drilled at a shop, then build the tank myself, so I guess i actually could just put one overflow in the corner, and hide it behind the rock/foam wall. I'm only going to have two viewing panes with the way I'm designing my stand. The front, and left end. There will be a cabinet on the right end.

I'm about to start working on a computer design of my plans for the tank and cabinet. I may post it when I get it all worked up.

bacawarrior · 10/22/2008, 11:58 AM

Ok, don't know why that posted twice, but oh well.

bacawarrior · 10/22/2008, 07:13 PM

bump

zachofalltrades · 10/22/2008, 07:35 PM

I like how in the double posts were just slightly different

At any rate, that's an odd width tank, have you looked into light fixtures for it yet? Plan on just putting a 48" fixture on it? All those lights will use a lot of electricity for a fish only tank though....

And how cold does it get in your house? I keep my house at 67 in the winter so I stay on the high end of recommended wattage for heaters, if it doesn't get that cold where you are you'll probably be ok. If it get's warm you think you'll need a chiller? (esp with all the lights)...

I'm a bit of a newb too but I figured I'd through my ideas out there since not too many other's were...

bacawarrior · 10/22/2008, 07:59 PM

It won't be FO. It's going to be a reef with fish, so I want enough lighting for anything I may put in there. If it was FO or FOWLR, I'd just wire up some cheap t8s from lowes.

I keep my house at about 70, and it stays pretty constant. Even if the power goes off, there's a gas fireplace with a thermostat. I also plan on getting a gas generator for just such an event to keep the lights and pumps running so things don't die. Every few years we'll get a bad ice storm that knocks out the power for days at a time. It's a rare occasion, but it would really suck to lose hundreds of dollars worth of corals that way.

Wow, got of topic. I guess it wouldnt' hurt to go with a little more wattage on the heaters though.

Everybody's opinions and ideas count. I'm actually surprised at the lack of responses. Figured this would be a prime opportunity for everybody to chime in with their two cents.

ljosh · 10/23/2008, 03:08 PM

Im not sure what a Rena filstar xp1 cost but I think that all you need for running carbon is TLF phosban reactor with minijet 400. I recommend a a second reactor for running some GFO as well. I run them both all the time wether they are needed or not.

bacawarrior · 10/23/2008, 03:53 PM

ljosh, you do make a very good point... why pay 75 bucks or so for a canister filter when I could just build my own chamber out of pvc, fill it with carbon, put a hose on each end, and power it with a powerhead I already have. Not exactly what you suggested... but even cheaper!

Thanks

Rouselb · 10/23/2008, 06:11 PM

CL are mainly used on public and commercial due to maintenance. For home, it cost far less to run several PH then it would to run one large pump for a CL.

bacawarrior · 10/26/2008, 08:39 AM

Rouselb, I mainly want to closed loop because I don't really like the look of all the powerheads in the tank, and I will only only have one side that I can put them on because of the rock/foam wall.

I've pretty much decided on a MSX200 skimmer. Seems to be the consensus on another thread.

I'll cut out the canister filter and the UV sterilizer.

So now I guess I'm still looking for some answers for questions 2,3, and 4.

Thanks

Rouselb · 10/26/2008, 08:49 AM

Flow from a sump can be anything from 3x up. I used to run 3000gph through my fuge/sump when i used MM, now i run 600gph with the same results. I have a 200 gal tank, and 150gal sump/fuge.

bacawarrior · 10/26/2008, 09:19 AM

Thanks. So I'm not too far off if I used two mag5 pumps for my returns? After about 6ft of headloss(not counting the valves/elbows) that would probably put me at what?... 7-800gph? I was also thinking about the two pump setup just as insurance in case one went out. Or would I be better off to just go with one mag9.5 or mag7?

Rouselb · 10/26/2008, 02:32 PM

Mag 5s with 6 foot of head loss will give you nothing...maybe 200gph. You need to run a Mag9 for 6 foot head loss, that will give you about 600gph. You dont need two pumps, you will have PH in the main tank to give flow even if the main pump stops working.

james3586 · 10/26/2008, 06:21 PM

isnt closed loop better because i have a 144 gal with a HD70 Blueline external pump two returns and i had it plumbed with 4 lock lines on the bottom shooting in all different areas from the bottom front to the upper back. I then ran 4 locklines on the back of the two returns total eight locklines 4 for each return concealed for looks with great amount of flow in the tank to the 30 gal sump. trickle filter only filled with liverock no socks or sponges. Why do people put those like 4 400 dollar power heads that look so bad? is that all you do no sump no external pump just add water fish coral and 4 to 6 powerheads? I let my live rock and skimmer filter my 144 halfround , is that what ph users do? how do you skim?

10/22/2008, 10:23 AM	#1
bacawarrior Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Fayetteville, AR Posts: 21	Making equipment list - suggestions please Ok, so I've been throwing some ideas around, and need advice on what equipment would be best. I'm working up a wish list of equipment for my setup, but want the best for my purposes. For example... I could run out and buy a skimmer "rated" for x number of gallons, but I would have no idea if it was a good one or not, since I'm new. So here goes. What I have come up with so far: 145g reef tank 54x26x24 two overflows Closed Loop with one intake and 4 returns Haven't decided what to do about a sump/fuge yet, but it will be at least a 39g tank, if not larger. T5/MH combo, probably 4 T5s and two MHs Gravity fed auto top off from reservoir built into cabinet Central power supply of GFCIs controlled by a DJ board Rena filstar xp1 to run carbon. two 200w heaters and one 150 as a backup UV sterilizer Refractometer and PH meter I already have a varied assortment of maxi jets, 600s, 900s, and a couple of 1200s. 1. What would be a good skimmer for my purposes? It will eventually be a reef with several fish... EVENTUALLY. LOL It'll take a while to stock this giant on a college students budget. 2. What about flow rate and return pumps from the sump? I was thinking maybe two mag 5s with two returns. Also, what size returns and drains? I need to know what size bulkheads to plan on installing. 3. Same questions for the closed loop. What size drain and returns, and what flow rate pump should I get? It won't have much headloss, I plan on mounting it right under the top of the cabinet. 4. What temp lights, and should I look at maybe 3MHs instead of only two? I plan on timers using the t5s with both regular and actinic bulbs for "sunrise" and "sunset", and the MHs for "mid day". 5. What about the various reactors there are, such as Kalk and phosban? 6. What wattage and or brand of UV sterilizer should I look at? I guess that's about it for now. I'll have lots and lots of other questions later on. Thanks

10/22/2008, 07:35 PM	#7
zachofalltrades Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 137	I like how in the double posts were just slightly different At any rate, that's an odd width tank, have you looked into light fixtures for it yet? Plan on just putting a 48" fixture on it? All those lights will use a lot of electricity for a fish only tank though.... And how cold does it get in your house? I keep my house at 67 in the winter so I stay on the high end of recommended wattage for heaters, if it doesn't get that cold where you are you'll probably be ok. If it get's warm you think you'll need a chiller? (esp with all the lights)... I'm a bit of a newb too but I figured I'd through my ideas out there since not too many other's were... __________________ 55 FOWLR Current Tank Info: 55g FOWLR

10/23/2008, 06:11 PM	#11
Rouselb Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Detroit Michigan Posts: 1,238	CL are mainly used on public and commercial due to maintenance. For home, it cost far less to run several PH then it would to run one large pump for a CL. __________________ Larry Current Tank Info: 425g Mixed Reef, (6) Orphek LED mods, (4) MP60s, (2) Bubble King SM250 Skimmer, LMIII for Dose & ATO

10/26/2008, 08:49 AM	#13
Rouselb Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Detroit Michigan Posts: 1,238	Flow from a sump can be anything from 3x up. I used to run 3000gph through my fuge/sump when i used MM, now i run 600gph with the same results. I have a 200 gal tank, and 150gal sump/fuge. __________________ Larry Current Tank Info: 425g Mixed Reef, (6) Orphek LED mods, (4) MP60s, (2) Bubble King SM250 Skimmer, LMIII for Dose & ATO

10/26/2008, 02:32 PM	#15
Rouselb Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Detroit Michigan Posts: 1,238	Mag 5s with 6 foot of head loss will give you nothing...maybe 200gph. You need to run a Mag9 for 6 foot head loss, that will give you about 600gph. You dont need two pumps, you will have PH in the main tank to give flow even if the main pump stops working. __________________ Larry Current Tank Info: 425g Mixed Reef, (6) Orphek LED mods, (4) MP60s, (2) Bubble King SM250 Skimmer, LMIII for Dose & ATO

10/22/2008, 11:22 AM	#2
Jocko Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Boston Posts: 595	Just want to throw out a few things, since I know you don't have enough to think about as it is. -Are you sure you want the closed loop. They aren't as popular as they used to be. I think the complexity is often sited as a problem. Also modern powerheads tend to be very efficient and not give off a lot of heat. I think the added flexibility in placement combined with the lack of plumbing has made powerheads the more popular choice these days. Maybe I'm wrong though. -What is the carbon and UV sterilizer for? Are you sure you need those? Any time you can eliminate something (yielding a simpler setup), that's a win in my book. At the least, these are things you can wait and get later, long after you tank has started cycling with live rock. Same goes for the kalk and phosban. -Did you order the tank yet? What is the motivation for 2 overflows? I've heard many people lament the loss of space caused by 2 large overflows. Something to keep in mind.

10/22/2008, 11:51 AM	#3
bacawarrior Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Fayetteville, AR Posts: 21	The closed loop was suggested to me by TGreene, who does professional setups for a living. He puts one in pretty much all his systems. I like the idea of it cause I'm going to do a rock/foam wall, and can hide it in there. Won't have powerheads hanging all over the place, and I can put two loclines on each return to really customize the flow. I know I won't need the carbon and UV till later on, I'm just trying to make my plans now so that I can add anything I want to it later on. Basically, I want to have everything ready to just plug in any items I may want to add later on. Same with the Kalk reactors, etc. I'm going to have the glass cut and drilled at a shop, then build the tank myself, so I guess i actually could just put one overflow in the corner, and hide it behind the rock/foam wall. I'm only going to have two viewing panes with the way I'm designing my stand. The front, and left end. There will be a cabinet on the right end. I'm about to start working on a computer design of my plans. I may post it when I get it all worked up.

10/22/2008, 11:55 AM	#4
bacawarrior Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Fayetteville, AR Posts: 21	The closed loop was suggested to me by TGreene, who does professional setups for a living. He puts one in pretty much all his systems. I like the idea of it cause I'm going to do a rock/foam wall, and can hide it in there. Won't have powerheads hanging all over the place, and I can put two loclines on each return to really customize the flow. I know I won't need the carbon and UV till later on, I'm just trying to make my plans now so that I can add anything I want to it later on. Basically, I want to have everything ready to just plug in any items I may want to add later on. Same with the Kalk reactors, etc. I'm going to have the glass cut and drilled at a shop, then build the tank myself, so I guess i actually could just put one overflow in the corner, and hide it behind the rock/foam wall. I'm only going to have two viewing panes with the way I'm designing my stand. The front, and left end. There will be a cabinet on the right end. I'm about to start working on a computer design of my plans for the tank and cabinet. I may post it when I get it all worked up.

10/22/2008, 11:58 AM	#5
bacawarrior Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Fayetteville, AR Posts: 21	Ok, don't know why that posted twice, but oh well.

10/22/2008, 07:13 PM	#6
bacawarrior Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Fayetteville, AR Posts: 21	bump

10/22/2008, 07:59 PM	#8
bacawarrior Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Fayetteville, AR Posts: 21	It won't be FO. It's going to be a reef with fish, so I want enough lighting for anything I may put in there. If it was FO or FOWLR, I'd just wire up some cheap t8s from lowes. I keep my house at about 70, and it stays pretty constant. Even if the power goes off, there's a gas fireplace with a thermostat. I also plan on getting a gas generator for just such an event to keep the lights and pumps running so things don't die. Every few years we'll get a bad ice storm that knocks out the power for days at a time. It's a rare occasion, but it would really suck to lose hundreds of dollars worth of corals that way. Wow, got of topic. I guess it wouldnt' hurt to go with a little more wattage on the heaters though. Everybody's opinions and ideas count. I'm actually surprised at the lack of responses. Figured this would be a prime opportunity for everybody to chime in with their two cents.

10/23/2008, 03:08 PM	#9
ljosh Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: B.C. Canada Posts: 354	Im not sure what a Rena filstar xp1 cost but I think that all you need for running carbon is TLF phosban reactor with minijet 400. I recommend a a second reactor for running some GFO as well. I run them both all the time wether they are needed or not.

10/23/2008, 03:53 PM	#10
bacawarrior Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Fayetteville, AR Posts: 21	ljosh, you do make a very good point... why pay 75 bucks or so for a canister filter when I could just build my own chamber out of pvc, fill it with carbon, put a hose on each end, and power it with a powerhead I already have. Not exactly what you suggested... but even cheaper! Thanks

10/26/2008, 08:39 AM	#12
bacawarrior Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Fayetteville, AR Posts: 21	Rouselb, I mainly want to closed loop because I don't really like the look of all the powerheads in the tank, and I will only only have one side that I can put them on because of the rock/foam wall. I've pretty much decided on a MSX200 skimmer. Seems to be the consensus on another thread. I'll cut out the canister filter and the UV sterilizer. So now I guess I'm still looking for some answers for questions 2,3, and 4. Thanks

10/26/2008, 09:19 AM	#14
bacawarrior Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Fayetteville, AR Posts: 21	Thanks. So I'm not too far off if I used two mag5 pumps for my returns? After about 6ft of headloss(not counting the valves/elbows) that would probably put me at what?... 7-800gph? I was also thinking about the two pump setup just as insurance in case one went out. Or would I be better off to just go with one mag9.5 or mag7?

10/26/2008, 06:21 PM	#16
james3586 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 55	isnt closed loop better because i have a 144 gal with a HD70 Blueline external pump two returns and i had it plumbed with 4 lock lines on the bottom shooting in all different areas from the bottom front to the upper back. I then ran 4 locklines on the back of the two returns total eight locklines 4 for each return concealed for looks with great amount of flow in the tank to the 30 gal sump. trickle filter only filled with liverock no socks or sponges. Why do people put those like 4 400 dollar power heads that look so bad? is that all you do no sump no external pump just add water fish coral and 4 to 6 powerheads? I let my live rock and skimmer filter my 144 halfround , is that what ph users do? how do you skim?