Can't get zero phosphates

Crustman · 11/17/2008, 11:37 PM

Do I need to get a reactor. I put the phosban media in a bag and put it in a Lifegard canister that is in line with my new Coralife Turbo Sea high pressure pump. My phosphate is at about 1.0 mg/L. I moved the tank as my first reef tank and made up most of the salt water with tap water before I knew better. All the fish survived and most of my corals are doing fine except a frogspawn.
Does a reactor need its own pum or can it just be plumbed inline?
There is some product that when put in a tank removes all phosphate but costs about 50 dollars a jar. This is more than the reactor by Two little fishes.

CoRPS · 11/17/2008, 11:39 PM

I can't really help you here as I know nothing about phosphates. But how long have you had your tank running? have you been using RO/DI as water since you've found out tap = no?

I'd just stick to weekly water changes and hope that helps. Also test the TDS and Phosphate readings of the fresh RO/DI before you drop it in the tank. It could be that you need new media for your RO/DI filter.

Toddrtrex · 11/17/2008, 11:42 PM

What is the rated GPH of that pump? I am wondering if too fast, I have a phosban reactor and only running an MJ400 on it, and it is throttled back. The media ( phosban ) is to be only slowly tumbling.

CoRPS · 11/17/2008, 11:43 PM

A little off topic but, do you have any pictures of your arowana tank?

cwegescheide · 11/17/2008, 11:46 PM

How did you test for phosphates? The only accurate way that I know of to get an accurate reading on Po4 is to have your water tested using a Hannah meter. Test kits that you can find at your LFS are notoriously inaccurate.

For 1 I'd make sure all future water changes are done using an RO/DI unit. Dont trust LFS water either. Normally they never change their filter media and if tested, they will show a high TDS. Get your own. A decent one is probably less than 200. Money well spent.

IMO you don't want to have 0 Phosphates anyways. Your corals do need phosphates, just not extremely elevated since that will lead to browning/RTN/death.

I try to keep my tanks around .01 - .02 ppm P04 and Nitrates < 5.

wordwarrior · 11/18/2008, 12:15 AM

The Red Sea brand tests kits are very accurate for saltwater setups. I use them all and they have never failed me. I run a phosphate remover - usually Pura - about twice a month for 48 hours. I mix it in a bag with carbon - cleans up really nice and never have phosphate levels higher than .01.

cwegescheide · 11/18/2008, 01:16 AM

One of these days I will compare the results from the Hanna Meter and a Red Sea Phosphate test kit. I'm putting my money on the Hanna Meter.

tmz · 11/18/2008, 08:15 AM

The Redd Sea kits are very poor in my experience. API or Salifert are better. The later will typically( in my experience) give higher readings than the Red Sea. The Salifert is closest to the Hanna colorimeter reading.

Enough of the test talk. High PO4 is likely in this situation since tap water was used. Hiugh phosphate will inhibit coral calcification and is harmfull to some corals particularly sps. It will also fuel nuisance algae growth. A product with ganualted ferric oxide will reduce it. If one bag won't do it maybe you need a bit more.

You may also wish to consider growing macroalgae in a regfugium to manage phosphae levels long tem.

jprince58 · 11/18/2008, 08:37 AM

Although not based in scientific study, I suspect there are some tanks that you just cannot get to the desired low PO4 levels. I have one that I've been fighting with for three years. Where it's coming from is anyone's guess. My presumption is that it's leaching from the rocks. I have a Hanna colorimeter and test both the water going in and the system: 0 going in; high system result. Two other tanks have given no problems with PO4 whatsoever.

My recommendation: Switch to RO/DI if possible, get some macro algae going, and get yourself a Hanna meter (the cost of a few test kits will pay for it) so you know what you really have going on with the PO4.

wordwarrior · 11/18/2008, 10:44 AM

Yes, Salifert is also good. Haven't tried API. As for the Hanna Meter - mmmm, I might take some of that action. I understand, however, that these various tests kits all have their ups and downs and likely relate 'good' or 'bad' depending on the water conditions in your area. Personally I use RO for water changes and the Red Sea brand works well here.

returnofsid · 11/18/2008, 11:00 AM

Phosphate is hard to get an accurate test for because your algaes are consuming it. I wouldn't worry about getting your levels to zero. Zero phosphates is almost impossible and not actually healthy for your tank. Just try for a low reading and let your Macro Algae take care of the rest!!

11/17/2008, 11:37 PM	#1
Crustman Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Mobile, Alabama Posts: 941	Can't get zero phosphates Do I need to get a reactor. I put the phosban media in a bag and put it in a Lifegard canister that is in line with my new Coralife Turbo Sea high pressure pump. My phosphate is at about 1.0 mg/L. I moved the tank as my first reef tank and made up most of the salt water with tap water before I knew better. All the fish survived and most of my corals are doing fine except a frogspawn. Does a reactor need its own pum or can it just be plumbed inline? There is some product that when put in a tank removes all phosphate but costs about 50 dollars a jar. This is more than the reactor by Two little fishes. __________________ Tom Current Tank Info: 65 gallon reef with 8 T-5's, ATI Blue Plus, Blue Special, KZ Fiji Purple, Vertex IN 100, phosphate and carbon reactor Coralife Turbo Sea Pump

11/17/2008, 11:42 PM	#3
Toddrtrex Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Carol Stream, IL Posts: 23,162	What is the rated GPH of that pump? I am wondering if too fast, I have a phosban reactor and only running an MJ400 on it, and it is throttled back. The media ( phosban ) is to be only slowly tumbling. __________________ Click my name and then "visit toddrtrex's homepage" for tank pictures Current Tank Info: 210g reef and 65g reef

11/18/2008, 12:15 AM	#6
wordwarrior Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Alberta Posts: 11	The Red Sea brand tests kits are very accurate for saltwater setups. I use them all and they have never failed me. I run a phosphate remover - usually Pura - about twice a month for 48 hours. I mix it in a bag with carbon - cleans up really nice and never have phosphate levels higher than .01. __________________ The truth is, there is no truth Current Tank Info: zoos, leathers and mushrooms - six acro frags, a few fish including a yellow tang, scooter blenny, cleaner wrasse, cleaner shrimp, fire shrimp, yellow watchman goby, magnificent goby, flasher wrasses and clown fish

11/18/2008, 08:15 AM	#8
tmz ReefKeeping Mag staff Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: West Seneca NY Posts: 27,691	The Redd Sea kits are very poor in my experience. API or Salifert are better. The later will typically( in my experience) give higher readings than the Red Sea. The Salifert is closest to the Hanna colorimeter reading. Enough of the test talk. High PO4 is likely in this situation since tap water was used. Hiugh phosphate will inhibit coral calcification and is harmfull to some corals particularly sps. It will also fuel nuisance algae growth. A product with ganualted ferric oxide will reduce it. If one bag won't do it maybe you need a bit more. You may also wish to consider growing macroalgae in a regfugium to manage phosphae levels long tem. __________________ Tom Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals.

11/18/2008, 08:37 AM	#9
jprince58 Premium Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Jenks, OK, USA Posts: 751	Although not based in scientific study, I suspect there are some tanks that you just cannot get to the desired low PO4 levels. I have one that I've been fighting with for three years. Where it's coming from is anyone's guess. My presumption is that it's leaching from the rocks. I have a Hanna colorimeter and test both the water going in and the system: 0 going in; high system result. Two other tanks have given no problems with PO4 whatsoever. My recommendation: Switch to RO/DI if possible, get some macro algae going, and get yourself a Hanna meter (the cost of a few test kits will pay for it) so you know what you really have going on with the PO4. __________________ 'I refuse to discount another man's opinion -- until he opens his mouth to speak.' -- Anonymous Jeff Prince Current Tank Info: 72g bow mixed reef; 40g frag

11/17/2008, 11:39 PM	#2
CoRPS Big Time Reefer Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: P-RINE Posts: 2,887	I can't really help you here as I know nothing about phosphates. But how long have you had your tank running? have you been using RO/DI as water since you've found out tap = no? I'd just stick to weekly water changes and hope that helps. Also test the TDS and Phosphate readings of the fresh RO/DI before you drop it in the tank. It could be that you need new media for your RO/DI filter.

11/17/2008, 11:43 PM	#4
CoRPS Big Time Reefer Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: P-RINE Posts: 2,887	A little off topic but, do you have any pictures of your arowana tank?

11/17/2008, 11:46 PM	#5
cwegescheide YOU have been ignored! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Tampa, Florida Posts: 5,231	How did you test for phosphates? The only accurate way that I know of to get an accurate reading on Po4 is to have your water tested using a Hannah meter. Test kits that you can find at your LFS are notoriously inaccurate. For 1 I'd make sure all future water changes are done using an RO/DI unit. Dont trust LFS water either. Normally they never change their filter media and if tested, they will show a high TDS. Get your own. A decent one is probably less than 200. Money well spent. IMO you don't want to have 0 Phosphates anyways. Your corals do need phosphates, just not extremely elevated since that will lead to browning/RTN/death. I try to keep my tanks around .01 - .02 ppm P04 and Nitrates < 5.

11/18/2008, 01:16 AM	#7
cwegescheide YOU have been ignored! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Tampa, Florida Posts: 5,231	One of these days I will compare the results from the Hanna Meter and a Red Sea Phosphate test kit. I'm putting my money on the Hanna Meter.

11/18/2008, 10:44 AM	#10
wordwarrior Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Alberta Posts: 11	Yes, Salifert is also good. Haven't tried API. As for the Hanna Meter - mmmm, I might take some of that action. I understand, however, that these various tests kits all have their ups and downs and likely relate 'good' or 'bad' depending on the water conditions in your area. Personally I use RO for water changes and the Red Sea brand works well here. __________________ The truth is, there is no truth Current Tank Info: zoos, leathers and mushrooms - six acro frags, a few fish including a yellow tang, scooter blenny, cleaner wrasse, cleaner shrimp, fire shrimp, yellow watchman goby, magnificent goby, flasher wrasses and clown fish

11/18/2008, 11:00 AM	#11
returnofsid Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 3,852	Phosphate is hard to get an accurate test for because your algaes are consuming it. I wouldn't worry about getting your levels to zero. Zero phosphates is almost impossible and not actually healthy for your tank. Just try for a low reading and let your Macro Algae take care of the rest!!