Need Automation Help

LPS_Blasto · 11/29/2008, 06:30 PM

I have several tanks, but I will be traveling a lot in the coming year. My wife and kids likes the tanks, but my wife is too small (5'3" and 96lbs soaking wet with her clothes on) to lug buckets of water around and she is afraid to dose any chemicals or even run a pH test. I can do water changes regularly, but I will not always be here to monitor the day to day status of the tanks.

I have never used any automation equipment, but I want to try it.

Please don't try and talk me out of using automation equipment. I know reefing is work and I am quite familiar with the care of reef tanks. I've been doing this for over 20yrs. I would like this thread to stay centered on the specifics of hardware.

I really don't even know where to start. Do I need a software program to run from my PC? Are there solenoid activated top off devices? How can I automatically monitor and dose pH? How can I monitor alk and calcium levels?

I would probably only try to automate one tank for now. But I do have a number of tanks that would benefit from monitoring and automation. Are there any systems that are expandable? Would it be possible to monitor several tanks down the road?

Thanks in advance.

Playa-1 · 11/29/2008, 09:25 PM

Do I need a software program to run from my PC?
If you want to be able to monitor and control your controller from a PC then you will need Software and a controller capable of performing that function.

Are there solenoid activated top off devices?
You have several options for Auto Top off, and yes a Solenoid activated is one of your options. The Controller also has a power strip where each plug is controlled by the Controller. So you could also set up an electric pump of your choice that could be controlled by the Controller using a water level monitoring device, such as a float switch or a series of float switches.

How can I automatically monitor and dose pH?
A controller will monitor the Ph. I use Kalk as an ATO and so Low PH is never an Issue for me. Although you could easily set it up, I wouldn't recommend dosing for the purpose of controlling PH. Low Ph issues are usually more related to gas exchange issues that need to be dealt with by addressing the root of the problem as opposed to Dosing a quick fix solution.

How can I monitor alk and calcium levels?
You could easily set up a controller to dose for you based on your daily dosing routine. You would still need to manually test your basic water parameters on a regular basis. At that time you could adjust your dosing amounts to maintain the desired water parameters. This is a bit of a trial and error adjustment at first. Once you get it dialed in, It required very little tweaking.

A good tank controller, dosing pumps and possibly an Auto Top Off system is what your looking for. I'm using the Aquatronica Controller and It would do the things that you require of it. It's expandable and would allow you to automate multiple tanks with a single controller. You could even monitor and make adjustments on your lap top when your traveling if you needed to.

There are lots of ways to configure the controllers but I will give you an Idea of how mine is set up.
My Controller turns lighting on and off at designated times. You can also set up safeguards to do things like override heaters, lighting, Pumps etc.., for different situations. For example:
My heaters operate on their own thermostat but the Controller will kill the power to them if the tank gets too hot. The Controller will also Kill the lighting if the tank hits 85 and turn on the chiller if the tank hits 86. I don't like to pay for the chiller to run so it's there for an emergency in my situation. I could easily set it up to turn on and off fans at certain temps.

I'm able to program and track information on my PC or the controller itself.

You could either set up an ATO system and use dosing pumps to deliver a two part solution to maintain your Calcium and ALK, or you could do like me and set up a 30gal Kalk reservoir and top-off with a dosing pump. The dosing pump runs for a few minutes every hour throughout the night. The controller monitors the PH and will override the dosing pump and shut it off if the PH were to get too high. That's a nice feature when dealing with Kalk. I've got it setup so that the periodic dosing covers my daily evaporation. The Controller will also topoff the tank with Kalk very slowly via the dosing pump should the water level drop. My 30 gallon Kalk reservoir is a new addition. I'm hoping to only have to mix Kalk once per month. In the summer times it may increase to twice per month, we will see how it goes.

This unit tracks PH, Conductivity, Temp, Redox, Water level which is nice because you can look up history. I can tell you what these parameters were at 4am yesterday or set it up to track longer periods of time if I want. You can also set up water spill sensors. Set alarms to sound if certain parameters are out of spec.

Overall with the right setup you should be able to easily set it up so that your wife doesn't have to do anything but feed the fish and maybe empty the skimmer. I'm sure you could automate that too if you wanted. Some people go as far as automating water changes. I haven't found the need for that yet.

jeffhaag · 11/30/2008, 11:44 AM

I would use a Tunze Osmolator to handle the top off portion. As for dosing, if you are using a 2 part, just get a peristalic pump so it can dose both parts of the chemicals for you. You just mix up a enough to last a few weeks through the dosing pumps.

IslandCrow · 11/30/2008, 02:12 PM

I think Playa pretty much hit everything. Just as a point of reference, here's specifically what I do for automation. I'm also gone quite a bit, and I don't have anyone else at home, so automation is extremely important for me.

First off, I have an Aquacontroller 3. It's one of the best purchases I've ever made for my tank. I can monitor PH and temperature from anywhere in the world. That doesn't seem like much, but it's amazing what you can diagnose with just those two parameters. I use the controller itself to automate my lights, pumps and heater. It could also easily be used to control dosing, auto top-off or a calcium reactor.

Speaking of Auto top-off, I use an Aqualifter pump attached to a water level controller to dose kalkwasser as top-off. It feeds from a 5g bucket, and that combined with how slowly it doses (I also have a gang valve attached to the tubing so it just drips the kalkwasser) keeps me from worrying too much about overflowing my tank/sump.

Lastly, I use an Aqua Medic peristaltic dosing pump (http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_Aquari...eef_doser.html) to dose my alkalinity and calcium supplements. It takes a little while to get everything dialed in, but once you do, it does a great job maintaining your calcium and alkalinity. I just test about once a month and adjust manually if needed.

One last thing. It's not really automation, but I have all of my essential equipment hooked up to a deep cycle marine battery through an UPS style inverter. That way, if I lose power, everything important continues to run without interruption.

LPS_Blasto · 11/30/2008, 03:45 PM

Thanks to all for the replies.

Playa-1 it sounds like you have a nice system.

I don't really want to start purchasing the equipment until I understand how these controllers work. Maybe I am over thinking the complexity? I'm VERY confused on how these things work to monitor and correct low or elevated levels of alk and ph.

It goes against all my best judgment to purchase equipment that I do not understand, but I am beginning to think that is the only way I will ever figure it out.

Playa-1 · 11/30/2008, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LPS_Blasto
Thanks to all for the replies.

Playa-1 it sounds like you have a nice system.

I don't really want to start purchasing the equipment until I understand how these controllers work. Maybe I am over thinking the complexity? I'm VERY confused on how these things work to monitor and correct low or elevated levels of alk and ph.

It goes against all my best judgment to purchase equipment that I do not understand, but I am beginning to think that is the only way I will ever figure it out.

It's not going to monitor and adjust ALK & Calcium for you. But what it can do is Dose a set amount on a regular basis. So if you know your tank uses 2 oz a day of a supplement then you can set your controller to deliver 2 oz a day of a certain supplement. You would set this up based on your current dosing schedule and likely some trial and error while your getting things dialed in. You would still be required to test your water on a regular basis. I test mine every other week normally. When you test your ALK and Calcium on your regularly scheduled water test then you would know if your dosing schedule would need to be adjusted. I set my dosing based on time and a little up front volumetric measurements of how much my dosing pump will deliver in X number of seconds. An example would be, If your tested your water when you were back in town and noticed your Calcium and ALK were a little high then you might adjust your controller to only deliver 1.5 oz of supplement per day instead of 2 oz per day.

Another good example is that I know that my tank evaporates 1 gallon a day of water. So I use the controller to replace the evaporation with 1 gallon of Kalk which maintains my Calcium, ALK and replaces the evaporated water. The way I do it is divide the 1 gallon of Kalk by 8 hour of dosing. So with 128oz in a gallon I need to dose 128/8=16oz per dose spread out over the night. Since PH is normally A little lower at night anyway that's a gr8 time to dose Kalk. I can't just dose all of the Kalk at once or it would shoot my ph thru the roof. I can dose 16oz every hour throughout the night without my PH getting out of line. If I were to notice my ALK and Calcium were starting to get too high or too low the next time I test my water parameters then I would simply adjust my Kalk solution to be a little stronger or a little weaker.

As far a PH goes, It's not an objective to control PH directly. On the other hand when dosing Kalk, a PH spike could be a real problem. I program My controller to override the dosing pump and shut the power off to it, if the PH gets to high. So If my Ph is over 8.4 the dosing pump shuts off and will not come back on until the ph falls back below 8.4. At that time the dosing pump will resume it's regularly scheduled program.

In addition to the dosing pump being set to dose Kalk thru the night it is also set to topoff the water should the water get to low in the sump. That's set up on the same kalk solution with the same ph override programmed into place.

I want to reiterate that you should not be trying to control your PH directly. The PH should stay within the 7.8 to 8.4 range without any intentional manipulation on your part. If the Ph is falling outside of that range then you have a problem that you need to investigate and figure out a solution for. It's not a problem that your controller is going to solve for you. And it's not a problem that's going to be solved with a supplement. Supplements for PH problems are considered a Quick fix and should be avoided as they will throw off you water parameters and cause you other problems. With that being said, The controller will monitor the PH and can track the information over time to give you excellent feedback. The controller will be a tool to help you figure out if you have a PH problem.

11/29/2008, 06:30 PM	#1
LPS_Blasto Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 581	Need Automation Help I have several tanks, but I will be traveling a lot in the coming year. My wife and kids likes the tanks, but my wife is too small (5'3" and 96lbs soaking wet with her clothes on) to lug buckets of water around and she is afraid to dose any chemicals or even run a pH test. I can do water changes regularly, but I will not always be here to monitor the day to day status of the tanks. I have never used any automation equipment, but I want to try it. Please don't try and talk me out of using automation equipment. I know reefing is work and I am quite familiar with the care of reef tanks. I've been doing this for over 20yrs. I would like this thread to stay centered on the specifics of hardware. I really don't even know where to start. Do I need a software program to run from my PC? Are there solenoid activated top off devices? How can I automatically monitor and dose pH? How can I monitor alk and calcium levels? I would probably only try to automate one tank for now. But I do have a number of tanks that would benefit from monitoring and automation. Are there any systems that are expandable? Would it be possible to monitor several tanks down the road? Thanks in advance.

11/29/2008, 09:25 PM	#2
Playa-1 Moved On Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Laguna Niguel, CA Posts: 7,497	Do I need a software program to run from my PC? If you want to be able to monitor and control your controller from a PC then you will need Software and a controller capable of performing that function. Are there solenoid activated top off devices? You have several options for Auto Top off, and yes a Solenoid activated is one of your options. The Controller also has a power strip where each plug is controlled by the Controller. So you could also set up an electric pump of your choice that could be controlled by the Controller using a water level monitoring device, such as a float switch or a series of float switches. How can I automatically monitor and dose pH? A controller will monitor the Ph. I use Kalk as an ATO and so Low PH is never an Issue for me. Although you could easily set it up, I wouldn't recommend dosing for the purpose of controlling PH. Low Ph issues are usually more related to gas exchange issues that need to be dealt with by addressing the root of the problem as opposed to Dosing a quick fix solution. How can I monitor alk and calcium levels? You could easily set up a controller to dose for you based on your daily dosing routine. You would still need to manually test your basic water parameters on a regular basis. At that time you could adjust your dosing amounts to maintain the desired water parameters. This is a bit of a trial and error adjustment at first. Once you get it dialed in, It required very little tweaking. A good tank controller, dosing pumps and possibly an Auto Top Off system is what your looking for. I'm using the Aquatronica Controller and It would do the things that you require of it. It's expandable and would allow you to automate multiple tanks with a single controller. You could even monitor and make adjustments on your lap top when your traveling if you needed to. There are lots of ways to configure the controllers but I will give you an Idea of how mine is set up. My Controller turns lighting on and off at designated times. You can also set up safeguards to do things like override heaters, lighting, Pumps etc.., for different situations. For example: My heaters operate on their own thermostat but the Controller will kill the power to them if the tank gets too hot. The Controller will also Kill the lighting if the tank hits 85 and turn on the chiller if the tank hits 86. I don't like to pay for the chiller to run so it's there for an emergency in my situation. I could easily set it up to turn on and off fans at certain temps. I'm able to program and track information on my PC or the controller itself. You could either set up an ATO system and use dosing pumps to deliver a two part solution to maintain your Calcium and ALK, or you could do like me and set up a 30gal Kalk reservoir and top-off with a dosing pump. The dosing pump runs for a few minutes every hour throughout the night. The controller monitors the PH and will override the dosing pump and shut it off if the PH were to get too high. That's a nice feature when dealing with Kalk. I've got it setup so that the periodic dosing covers my daily evaporation. The Controller will also topoff the tank with Kalk very slowly via the dosing pump should the water level drop. My 30 gallon Kalk reservoir is a new addition. I'm hoping to only have to mix Kalk once per month. In the summer times it may increase to twice per month, we will see how it goes. This unit tracks PH, Conductivity, Temp, Redox, Water level which is nice because you can look up history. I can tell you what these parameters were at 4am yesterday or set it up to track longer periods of time if I want. You can also set up water spill sensors. Set alarms to sound if certain parameters are out of spec. Overall with the right setup you should be able to easily set it up so that your wife doesn't have to do anything but feed the fish and maybe empty the skimmer. I'm sure you could automate that too if you wanted. Some people go as far as automating water changes. I haven't found the need for that yet. Last edited by Playa-1; 11/29/2008 at 10:19 PM.

11/30/2008, 02:12 PM	#4
IslandCrow Reef Monkey Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Rockledge, Fl Posts: 5,759	I think Playa pretty much hit everything. Just as a point of reference, here's specifically what I do for automation. I'm also gone quite a bit, and I don't have anyone else at home, so automation is extremely important for me. First off, I have an Aquacontroller 3. It's one of the best purchases I've ever made for my tank. I can monitor PH and temperature from anywhere in the world. That doesn't seem like much, but it's amazing what you can diagnose with just those two parameters. I use the controller itself to automate my lights, pumps and heater. It could also easily be used to control dosing, auto top-off or a calcium reactor. Speaking of Auto top-off, I use an Aqualifter pump attached to a water level controller to dose kalkwasser as top-off. It feeds from a 5g bucket, and that combined with how slowly it doses (I also have a gang valve attached to the tubing so it just drips the kalkwasser) keeps me from worrying too much about overflowing my tank/sump. Lastly, I use an Aqua Medic peristaltic dosing pump (http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_Aquari...eef_doser.html) to dose my alkalinity and calcium supplements. It takes a little while to get everything dialed in, but once you do, it does a great job maintaining your calcium and alkalinity. I just test about once a month and adjust manually if needed. One last thing. It's not really automation, but I have all of my essential equipment hooked up to a deep cycle marine battery through an UPS style inverter. That way, if I lose power, everything important continues to run without interruption. __________________ All opinions in the above message should be taken with 35 ppt salt. -Mike C. Current Tank Info: I have a reef screen saver on my phone, does that count?

11/30/2008, 11:44 AM	#3
jeffhaag Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Chickamauga, GA Posts: 442	I would use a Tunze Osmolator to handle the top off portion. As for dosing, if you are using a 2 part, just get a peristalic pump so it can dose both parts of the chemicals for you. You just mix up a enough to last a few weeks through the dosing pumps.

11/30/2008, 03:45 PM	#5
LPS_Blasto Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 581	Thanks to all for the replies. Playa-1 it sounds like you have a nice system. I don't really want to start purchasing the equipment until I understand how these controllers work. Maybe I am over thinking the complexity? I'm VERY confused on how these things work to monitor and correct low or elevated levels of alk and ph. It goes against all my best judgment to purchase equipment that I do not understand, but I am beginning to think that is the only way I will ever figure it out.