DSB and/or Refugium

[LoneRegister]

I previously ran successfully a 90G Reef.

I had a sump, and the aquairum was setup with a DSB.

I have just decided to get back into it - and have purchsed a new sump with a section for refugium.

Can someone kindly let me know (or point me) about the differences between DSB and refugium - or am I thinking wrong.

Should I run both?

My previous DSB was 1/2" PVC pipe arranged on the bottom of the tank - with egg crate over that - and then with mesh/netting over that to prevent the sand from entering the void.

Much thanks to everyone here who responds. My apologies if this has been asked before.

Kevin

[Boyman]

Hi there, welcome back. I think you are thinking wrong. I think what you are looking for is DSB/SSB/BB with a refugium or a sump.

[WaterKeeper]

A fuge is mainly to act as a safe haven for the tiny critters that would be lunch in the display. It is a safe place for them to grow and breed. It does help a DSB in that many of the organisms in the fuge are beneficial to the DSB and help repopulate those lost through predation.

[LoneRegister]

Am I thinking that the "empty" space below the egg crate does not make a DSB?

Is anyone else using this kind of setup for the sand in their display tank?

Basically- last time I setup the tank I had the PVC pipe + egg crate + mesh setup so that underneath the egg crate was just water - and no sand. Above the egg create was the sand bed - perhaps 2-3 inches of sand.

[WaterKeeper]

It is a type of DSB called a plenum or NNR (Natural Nitrate Reduction) system. The void space is called a plenum and supposedly keeps some oxygen tension in the bed. From my point of view it is not needed as a DSB seems to work as well. You can use it if you wish but I'd up that covering to at least 5" of sand. This is an area of ongoing debate and that debate is going on Here. It is a long thread but it gives a lot of pros and cons of different systems of husbandry.

[LoneRegister]

Thanks Tom,

I'll do some reading on the debate. I am leaning now towards the DSB with 4-5" of sand. Which without the NNR/Plenem system will save me about 1-1-1/2" of space which would be nice.

*sigh* forgot how expensive this all was. But I do remember how beautiful it is too!

[WaterKeeper]

How long have you been inactive? If they still sold Southdown when you quit then you are in for a shock.

[LoneRegister]

I shut down my last tank in late 2004 if I recall correctly.

If you search here by my posting name you'll see some of the stuff that I did previously.

So far- I am taking it a lot slower this time. I am contemplating a build out of a new stand system that will allow me to later expand to a much larger tank - perhaps 180.

Right now though, I am resetting my 90, just bought a refugium sump tank.

[Benuski]

Well my 2 cents is not to use a plenum I have used one in the past and all started out great but I believe that is later what caused my tank to be unstable. I use a refugium with 3" of sand and curently have nothing in my tank as an experiment everything seems fine but when my system gets a little more load I plan on using sand on the tank bottom.

[WaterKeeper]

Four years can be an eternity in this hobby. Changes take place almost monthly and, although many are just fads, some get great followings and become standards in fairly short order.

[LoneRegister]

Yeah - I am seeing changes and such. I think when I got out - refugiums were gaining favor and are now a "default"

So what I am thinking of setting up is this:

90 gallon 48" x 18" x 24"
4-5" sand bed. No plenum.
sump with baffles, refugium, and Euro Reef CS-6 Skimmer (man that thing always worked great for me!)
QuietOne5000 main sump pump
Two power heads for the corners of the tank.

Then of course the live rock which I will probably start out with some base rock + a little live rock in order to seed the base rock.

Using the live rock to kick the tank through it's cycle.

Then a 3 or 4 chromi's added carefully.

Thoughts or suggestions on things that may have changed up?

How about what kind of plant(s) to use in the refuguim. How deep should the refugium sand be?

What kind of sand would you recommend. I read that you are a STRONG opponent of the "bags" of live sand - and lean towards something else?

Kevin

[LoneRegister]

When I got out - it was due to a failure/spill in the plumbing that happened at a totally innoportune time. Luckily, I was able to get all my livestock out to a friend who also had a tank.

[LoneRegister]

Finally - I used the plenum method - and after about 2-3 years, I started getting slime algea (the red stuff with bubbles) in the tank and fought that for a long time.

I now wonder if my Plenum and sand were saturated/full? Or if I just didn't have enough sand in there to begin with anyway....

[WaterKeeper]

Kevin,

That equipment list sounds fine. I'd use some of the sugar fine sized packaged aragonite dry sands. That wet packaged stuff is just the same stuff wetted down and sprinkled with bacteria. The LR you have has all the bacteria they provide and more. Buy the cheaper dry stuff. It is a good idea to seed the bed with true LS. I like to use about 10% of the bed at least and order on-line from a couple of suppliers to get good diversity. It is not the bacteria you are seeking but the worms and other critters that keep the bed agitated.

The algae may have been from the plenum being improperly set up. Many people feel it uses less sand than a DSB but in fact in uses more as you need at least 5-6 inches over the top of the plenum.

You plan on a fuge with macro algae. Chaetomorpha is the best algae to use in a fuge. It is undemanding in light requirements, grows fast, has a high nutrient uptake rate and doesn't go sexual, a major problem with Caulerpa that was commonly used a few years ago. It too will help limit nutrients that can fuel pest algae growth.

[LoneRegister]

Tom -thanks for the info. How do you tell "live" sand from "wet" sand online. Any tips you'd be willing to share with me or private message me with?

[WaterKeeper]

Its not a secret. There are several suppliers out there

See if it is advertised as Pacific, Caribbean or aquacultured LS. Live Aquaria, Walt Smith International, Aquatic Connections and Petco all carry true LS. You can usually tell the real stuff as it doesn't come in pretty, colorful sealed bags with tons of wording on the label.

[CnLHolman01]

Ips is another option to adding diversity to your sand.
http://www.ipsf.com/
I would prefer knowing what I am putting in.
I added sugar fine sand and in the sump ordered some grunge from GARF http://www.garf.org/.
I have tons of pods and lots of coraline algea.
I would hold off on the chromis, and do some homework. They tend to kill each other off until there is only one left. Also they don't really perform any benefical task in your aquarium. I like to look for fish that eat bristleworm, flatworms, stir the sand, eat algea, ect. I do have two clowns and a chromis (formally 5 of them). I got mine when I first got into saltwater before I knew better.

[WaterKeeper]

Detrivore kits are fine. They do tend to lack the diversity of true LS but if you can tell which of the over 10,000 species of polychaete, bristle worms, you order; I do suppose the ipsf "baby worms" will indeed give you the comfort of what you are adding.