turnover rate explained

CloruroDiSodio · 12/25/2008, 11:03 AM

Hello all,

I am relatively new to the hobby. I had a successful 55gal saltwater tank MANY years ago with ancient undergravel filter and am going to get back into the hobby with a 180gal (fish and hardy inverts). I wanted to use some of the newer filtration with an external wet/dry filter in addition to some live rock. I was thinking of shooting for a turnover rate of 10 per hour or 1800 gph. My question is this: When we say "turnover rate" is this literally 1800 gallons flowing between the tank and sump? I just want to make sure I understand this term correctly since I want to spec my equipment accurately. If this is the case I was thinking of using two 1.5" outlet drain pipes to the sump. Do you think this would be sufficient?

thanks a lot!

jon99 · 12/25/2008, 01:06 PM

Turn over rate or flow or whatever you want to call it is the sum total of flow in your tank including return from sump, powerheads, closed loop, etc. The flow through the sump should actually be somewhere between 3-5X the volume of the display (500-900). The reason for this is it helps eliminate microbubbles in the sump which can then enter your display. It also allows for more dwell time in the sump, which is generally where the water is filtered, cleaned, heated, etc.

jon99 · 12/25/2008, 01:10 PM

Check this link for a overflow calculator...

http://www.reefcentral.org/calc/drain.php

Whatever size you need I would recommend 2 of them. Incase something clogs one you have a backup to keep the water from overflowing all over the floor.

CloruroDiSodio · 12/25/2008, 01:39 PM

Hi Jon99,

Thank you for the replies, it makes sense now. I thought 1800 gph through the sump sounded like too much! I'll shoot for around 7 to 800 or so. Thanks also for the link.

take care

nmbeg · 12/25/2008, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CloruroDiSodio
I wanted to use some of the newer filtration with an external wet/dry filter in addition to some live rock.

A little off topic, but if you want to use a wet/dry..... then you are still a little behind the times. Usually these days most people go with Live rock, along with a skimmer. Seems to give great results for everyone.

Not to say that a wet/dry is wrong or can't be done, but i would seriously re-consider that.

More people here can tell you more about that.

CloruroDiSodio · 12/25/2008, 06:21 PM

Hi nmbeg,

Thank you for the post. Yeah I am still trying to catch up with the newer "technology". I was thinking of a wet dry (bioballs) in addition to the live rock. Is this a goofy thing to do? Live rock goes right into the main tank itself correct? I thought if for some reason the live rock doesn't do so well at least I'll have some back up bacteria on the bioballs. I planned on putting a nice filter mesh bag to keep particulates from going into the wet dry.

Thanks

nmbeg · 12/25/2008, 06:41 PM

The live rock goes into the display and you can have some in your sump as well.

but i am waiting for others on this board to chime in....

might wanna ask your question in a new thread about live rock vs wet/dry.

honestly, I don't know if anyone here uses a wet/dry anymore.

harleyreefer · 12/25/2008, 06:48 PM

If you follow the recipe of about 1.5 pounds of Live Rock per gallon, the rock will work fine. I think the issue of bio balls is the kind of bactiria involved, and the function they serve. the bacteria that lives on the live rock. Someone with a black belt in reefkeeping could explain it far better than I, but I think it involves the amount of oxigen each bacteria needs.
I do know that I personally have been strongly steered away from bio balls by others who know far more than I on this subject.

Live rock and a good skimmer are generally what is recomended for a reef tank.

BTW, welcome to reef central, and to the wonderful world of reefing!!!!

Reverend Reefer · 12/25/2008, 09:38 PM

alot of people also recommend deep sand beds and don't forget a good protein skimmer.

CloruroDiSodio · 12/25/2008, 10:01 PM

That's a good idea, I'll do that

Thanks again

12/25/2008, 11:03 AM	#1
CloruroDiSodio Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: New York Posts: 597	turnover rate explained Hello all, I am relatively new to the hobby. I had a successful 55gal saltwater tank MANY years ago with ancient undergravel filter and am going to get back into the hobby with a 180gal (fish and hardy inverts). I wanted to use some of the newer filtration with an external wet/dry filter in addition to some live rock. I was thinking of shooting for a turnover rate of 10 per hour or 1800 gph. My question is this: When we say "turnover rate" is this literally 1800 gallons flowing between the tank and sump? I just want to make sure I understand this term correctly since I want to spec my equipment accurately. If this is the case I was thinking of using two 1.5" outlet drain pipes to the sump. Do you think this would be sufficient? thanks a lot!

12/25/2008, 01:10 PM	#3
jon99 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atl Ga Posts: 817	Check this link for a overflow calculator... http://www.reefcentral.org/calc/drain.php Whatever size you need I would recommend 2 of them. Incase something clogs one you have a backup to keep the water from overflowing all over the floor. __________________ Current tank: 210 gallon mixed reef 2x250w radium, 1x400w radium, 2x vortech mp40, 2 seaswirls. 40 gallon frag tank 250w radium, vortech mp10, seaswirl. 55 gallon sump w/ remote DSB, turf scrubber, SR Current Tank Info: 210 in the works

12/25/2008, 06:48 PM	#8
harleyreefer Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Lufkin Texas Posts: 84	If you follow the recipe of about 1.5 pounds of Live Rock per gallon, the rock will work fine. I think the issue of bio balls is the kind of bactiria involved, and the function they serve. the bacteria that lives on the live rock. Someone with a black belt in reefkeeping could explain it far better than I, but I think it involves the amount of oxigen each bacteria needs. I do know that I personally have been strongly steered away from bio balls by others who know far more than I on this subject. Live rock and a good skimmer are generally what is recomended for a reef tank. BTW, welcome to reef central, and to the wonderful world of reefing!!!! __________________ 200 gal DT w/ 110 sump 3x korilla4, 4x korilla7, quiet one 6000 return pump AquaC400 skimmer 72" constalation t5 fixture reefkeeper Elite, PC4x3,MLCx2(12 moon leds),SL1,Net Current Tank Info: 200 gallon w/110 sump

12/25/2008, 09:38 PM	#9
Reverend Reefer Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 883	alot of people also recommend deep sand beds and don't forget a good protein skimmer. __________________ - Rev. Tank: 65G glass 48" long tank; Sump/Fuge: 30G. Lighting: LEDs+single T5 strip. Maintenance: ATO Kalkwasser + 10% weekly WC, daily feedings LPS+Softies dominated.

12/25/2008, 01:06 PM	#2
jon99 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atl Ga Posts: 817	Turn over rate or flow or whatever you want to call it is the sum total of flow in your tank including return from sump, powerheads, closed loop, etc. The flow through the sump should actually be somewhere between 3-5X the volume of the display (500-900). The reason for this is it helps eliminate microbubbles in the sump which can then enter your display. It also allows for more dwell time in the sump, which is generally where the water is filtered, cleaned, heated, etc.

12/25/2008, 01:39 PM	#4
CloruroDiSodio Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: New York Posts: 597	Hi Jon99, Thank you for the replies, it makes sense now. I thought 1800 gph through the sump sounded like too much! I'll shoot for around 7 to 800 or so. Thanks also for the link. take care

12/25/2008, 06:21 PM	#6
CloruroDiSodio Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: New York Posts: 597	Hi nmbeg, Thank you for the post. Yeah I am still trying to catch up with the newer "technology". I was thinking of a wet dry (bioballs) in addition to the live rock. Is this a goofy thing to do? Live rock goes right into the main tank itself correct? I thought if for some reason the live rock doesn't do so well at least I'll have some back up bacteria on the bioballs. I planned on putting a nice filter mesh bag to keep particulates from going into the wet dry. Thanks

12/25/2008, 06:41 PM	#7
nmbeg Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 894	The live rock goes into the display and you can have some in your sump as well. but i am waiting for others on this board to chime in.... might wanna ask your question in a new thread about live rock vs wet/dry. honestly, I don't know if anyone here uses a wet/dry anymore.

12/25/2008, 10:01 PM	#10
CloruroDiSodio Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: New York Posts: 597	That's a good idea, I'll do that Thanks again