seeding sand and rock to make live

genpetahhhh · 12/28/2008, 07:50 PM

I am going to be starting a new tank in a few weeks. I want to save money on rock and sand so one thing I am planning on doing is buying some play sand and a limestone block (I can try carving it into nice pieces, but most likely it will just become rubble for my fuge. ) and put these in a plastic bin with salt water, heater, powerhead, and something to seed them. So my question is what is the best method to seed these and go about getting this into good filter material.

The things I was thinking of were:
1) Buy a small bag of live sand from somewhere like Petsmart or my LFS
2) Trying to buy a plastic baggy of live sand from an established tank at my LFS (not sure if they do this or not)
3) Buy a small amount of live rock from my LFS (if so, what size would be best for this to work?)

My guess is a combination of the above would work best.

Also, how should I setup the powerhead(s)? Aim them at the rock or at the surface to increase air exchange? Maybe one doing each? And I am assuming the more powerful the pump the better correct? This is my first time trying to seed rock so I don't really know what I am doing.

GaryR1984 · 12/28/2008, 08:17 PM

Buy a piece of nice live rock from your LFS and ask them for a cup of sand from a single system show tank they have.

Add a light to the bin and wait, wait, wait, and wait some more!

Phyxius · 12/28/2008, 08:34 PM

You could also try and find some local reefers in your area and see if you could get a cup of sand from them. A few cups from some different people would give you a good start in seeding your sand bed.
A piece or two of live rock like GaryR1984 mentioned will also work well too to kick off your system

mc-cro · 12/28/2008, 08:38 PM

I would try and get a sample of live rock and live sand from as many different places as possible, to ensure you get a nice variation of critters. keep in mind, the more live stuff you get the shorter time you will have to wait.

genpetahhhh · 12/28/2008, 10:09 PM

Thanks. And good idea about the light. I probably wouldn't have thought of that since when I cured my current rock I didn't need one, but that wasn't trying to turn dead rock into live rock.

Is my idea of breaking up the limestone a good idea even? Will it be too dense? Or should it be just fine as rubble for a fuge?

rgrobe · 12/28/2008, 10:22 PM

Be careful with the playsand. Make sure the sand is not silica based or you may end up with higher silica levels than you would want. The sand usually used in reef systems is aragonite which is calcium based. You have the right idea on seeding. I don't know enough about the limestone to comment on that. I would suspect the limestone will leach affecting the alk levels. Not sure how much it will affect the levels though.

genpetahhhh · 12/28/2008, 10:43 PM

I didn't even think of the silica part. Diatoms would just love me to overlook that. I guess that makes the cheap sand at lowes no longer an option. I should still be able to get some aragonite for less than live aragonite though....hopefully.

and instead of limestone, what about Aragocrete? Anyone have much experience with this? I wouldn't want it for the main display (unless maybe for a support structure), but it would be great for the fuge I bet...if it works well that is. I could seed it the same way

genpetahhhh · 12/28/2008, 10:44 PM

oh yeah, and what do I need to do to help the growth in the seeding? Like add fish food or something to increase ammonia?

rgrobe · 12/28/2008, 10:58 PM

Theoretically when you seed with established sand or rock the bacteria will multily and spread naturally. They used to recommend adding damsel(s) to start the cycle because they are cheap and hardy. Nonetheless you would still be subjecting them to the spikes in ammonia and nitrites. If you do decide to help the cycle along you can add an uncooked shrimp (from a supermarket seafood counter) and allow it to decompose.

genpetahhhh · 12/28/2008, 11:42 PM

and any advice on where to aim the powerhead(s) for best results? or should I have a couple, one or more for rock and the same for the surface?

rgrobe · 12/28/2008, 11:51 PM

One at each end pointed to the opposite front corner. creates an X pattern. Drop a little flake food and check for dead spots. Adjust the flow as necesary or add a third to icrease flow through roocks.

genpetahhhh · 12/29/2008, 01:50 AM

thanks! I will go tom to look for some good aragonite sand (I am guessing my LFS will be the best source for this) and use it to both create live sand and to make some aragocrete with. The small pieces I would make should dry quickly so I should be able to start seeding them soon. This should be a fun experiment for me. Thanks everyone for your help!

12/28/2008, 07:50 PM	#1
genpetahhhh Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Wilmette, IL Posts: 89	seeding sand and rock to make live I am going to be starting a new tank in a few weeks. I want to save money on rock and sand so one thing I am planning on doing is buying some play sand and a limestone block (I can try carving it into nice pieces, but most likely it will just become rubble for my fuge. ) and put these in a plastic bin with salt water, heater, powerhead, and something to seed them. So my question is what is the best method to seed these and go about getting this into good filter material. The things I was thinking of were: 1) Buy a small bag of live sand from somewhere like Petsmart or my LFS 2) Trying to buy a plastic baggy of live sand from an established tank at my LFS (not sure if they do this or not) 3) Buy a small amount of live rock from my LFS (if so, what size would be best for this to work?) My guess is a combination of the above would work best. Also, how should I setup the powerhead(s)? Aim them at the rock or at the surface to increase air exchange? Maybe one doing each? And I am assuming the more powerful the pump the better correct? This is my first time trying to seed rock so I don't really know what I am doing.

12/28/2008, 08:34 PM	#3
Phyxius Moving About Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: RTP NC Posts: 2,405	You could also try and find some local reefers in your area and see if you could get a cup of sand from them. A few cups from some different people would give you a good start in seeding your sand bed. A piece or two of live rock like GaryR1984 mentioned will also work well too to kick off your system __________________ -Mike I never drink water because of the disgusting things that fish do in it. W. C. Fields Current Tank Info: JUST SOLD AND TOOK DOWN ALL 11/10---210g AGA, 80g sump, Tunze Streams. Tunze ATO,RK Elite Controller, RKII,Dart, GEO Calcium& Nielsen Kalk Reactors,GEO media reactor, Kaleini Rock, 3-250 watt 14k EVC , VHO..... 34g Solana and 60g cube Last edited by Phyxius; 12/28/2008 at 08:39 PM.

12/28/2008, 08:38 PM	#4
mc-cro (macro) Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 2,238	I would try and get a sample of live rock and live sand from as many different places as possible, to ensure you get a nice variation of critters. keep in mind, the more live stuff you get the shorter time you will have to wait. __________________ Time is the most valuable thing you have... spend it wisely Current Tank Info: 60x26x24 AGE 3 sided starphire

12/28/2008, 08:17 PM	#2
GaryR1984 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 974	Buy a piece of nice live rock from your LFS and ask them for a cup of sand from a single system show tank they have. Add a light to the bin and wait, wait, wait, and wait some more!

12/28/2008, 10:09 PM	#5
genpetahhhh Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Wilmette, IL Posts: 89	Thanks. And good idea about the light. I probably wouldn't have thought of that since when I cured my current rock I didn't need one, but that wasn't trying to turn dead rock into live rock. Is my idea of breaking up the limestone a good idea even? Will it be too dense? Or should it be just fine as rubble for a fuge?

12/28/2008, 10:22 PM	#6
rgrobe Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: San Diego area Posts: 416	Be careful with the playsand. Make sure the sand is not silica based or you may end up with higher silica levels than you would want. The sand usually used in reef systems is aragonite which is calcium based. You have the right idea on seeding. I don't know enough about the limestone to comment on that. I would suspect the limestone will leach affecting the alk levels. Not sure how much it will affect the levels though.

12/28/2008, 10:43 PM	#7
genpetahhhh Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Wilmette, IL Posts: 89	I didn't even think of the silica part. Diatoms would just love me to overlook that. I guess that makes the cheap sand at lowes no longer an option. I should still be able to get some aragonite for less than live aragonite though....hopefully. and instead of limestone, what about Aragocrete? Anyone have much experience with this? I wouldn't want it for the main display (unless maybe for a support structure), but it would be great for the fuge I bet...if it works well that is. I could seed it the same way

12/28/2008, 10:44 PM	#8
genpetahhhh Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Wilmette, IL Posts: 89	oh yeah, and what do I need to do to help the growth in the seeding? Like add fish food or something to increase ammonia?

12/28/2008, 10:58 PM	#9
rgrobe Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: San Diego area Posts: 416	Theoretically when you seed with established sand or rock the bacteria will multily and spread naturally. They used to recommend adding damsel(s) to start the cycle because they are cheap and hardy. Nonetheless you would still be subjecting them to the spikes in ammonia and nitrites. If you do decide to help the cycle along you can add an uncooked shrimp (from a supermarket seafood counter) and allow it to decompose.

12/28/2008, 11:42 PM	#10
genpetahhhh Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Wilmette, IL Posts: 89	and any advice on where to aim the powerhead(s) for best results? or should I have a couple, one or more for rock and the same for the surface?

12/28/2008, 11:51 PM	#11
rgrobe Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: San Diego area Posts: 416	One at each end pointed to the opposite front corner. creates an X pattern. Drop a little flake food and check for dead spots. Adjust the flow as necesary or add a third to icrease flow through roocks.

12/29/2008, 01:50 AM	#12
genpetahhhh Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Wilmette, IL Posts: 89	thanks! I will go tom to look for some good aragonite sand (I am guessing my LFS will be the best source for this) and use it to both create live sand and to make some aragocrete with. The small pieces I would make should dry quickly so I should be able to start seeding them soon. This should be a fun experiment for me. Thanks everyone for your help!