this is really weird. im almost ready to call it quits - Page 2

scarysdad · 02/04/2009, 12:50 PM

Thought that you'd been overdoing the Prime Kurquart1. Yeah you only dechlorinate the water you are adding not the whole tank every time FYI the one capful of Prime will dechlorinate 2 x the entire tank !! You have been overdosing by a factor of 25x every w/c all this chemical is in your tank not bound to any Chlorine. What I would do now is definitely find a source of RO water Walmart or LFS and do a large w/c on the 30 with it. If you can't get hold of RO do nothing do not add anymore tap + Prime you will only worsen the problem. Although it states on the bottle that Prime does not overactivate skimmers trust me it does so when you move on to your big tank and get a skimmer you are going to get mountains of foam and no skimmate. One last point about Prime....and Seachem who make it warned about this although it is not on the bottle NEVER use it with Copper containing meds it is lethal.....which also really renders it useless in a QT tank where you want to treat your new fish for possible illness.
Prime is a brilliant product(I use it exclusively on all my FW tanks)...it is the only conditioner I know that gets rid of Chloroamines without actually increasing ammonia in the tank.....but you have to be careful....

Glad I could help
Craig

sdc19982002 · 02/04/2009, 02:46 PM

Most of the de-chlorinators and water conditioners lower your dissolved oxygen in your tank. By overdosing the prime and by not running a skimmer (to add oxygen) I'm pretty sure that did it. Just remember to let your water sit for a while before putting it in the tank or run a powerhead in your mixing bucket. I would do a 50% water change and dont add anything except salt to the water. let it sit for a week and you should be ok. Good luck..

Chago09 · 02/04/2009, 03:00 PM

guys you can't overdose on Prime, trust me I know first hand. I dropped a entire large bottle into a tank. By the time I grabbed it out it was half empty. Who knows how much actually came out since the bottle could have filled with salt water. On the bottle it says you can dose 4 times the recomended amount safely, so really like 8 times until you actually cause harm.

My first question to you is, how much flow do you have in your tank?? are you only using a canister filter?

Killing chromis, just doesn't seem right?? I have some in my tank that I really wouldn't mind if they died LOL but they never do. Which leads me to think that there is something serioulsy wrong with your tank or the stock your getting. Your in Hamilton, isn't there a big als in steel town??? there stock isn't Grade A but there usually pretty good with some TLC to fatten them up.

As per the Naso, I bet it was sick before you bought it, then the stress of the 30 gallon finished the job. Tangs are tangs. They are not easy to keep in any situation. I had a Powder Blue tang for over a year and all of a sudden one day out of nowhere it got ick and died. There was absolutly no fluctuation in water quality.

Although again whats your flow??? SW requires good flow.

sdc19982002 · 02/04/2009, 03:06 PM

[
[B]guys you can't overdose on Prime, trust me I know first hand. I dropped a entire large bottle into a tank. By the time I grabbed it out it was half empty. Who knows how much actually came out since the bottle could have filled with salt water. On the bottle it says you can dose 4 times the recomended amount safely, so really like 8 times until you actually cause harm.

He overdosed by about 25 times. I can assure you in a 30 gallon tank, thats bad news.

Sk8r · 02/04/2009, 07:25 PM

Remember that to keep these creatures alive, you want to replicate the ocean they came from. Your salt mix is dehydrated ocean, with buffers, calcium, salt, magnesium, trace elements, etc.---and what you want to add it to should be H20 so pure and stripped of elements other than H's and O's that it's just 0 other things. That's what ro/di water is...no mineral content but H's and O's. When you add salt mix, it becomes buffered, balanced ocean, and stays that way until your critters use up some of the chemicals...or add a few from their food. Your skimmer is to remove spare amino acids (complex protein stuff). Your live rock is to get rid of decomposing poo and food, nitrate stuff. If you start more with the idea of creating and keeping very good water rather than how you're going to eliminate waste, your tank will be happy---IF you have the live rock and skimmer that will take care of those 'waste' things for you. A marine tank using live rock and skimmer is incredibly carefree, compared to freshwater, in my own experience---no filters to clean, just a skimmer to dump every few days. Just a way of looking at it. But I hope now you've got a handle on your problem---25x overdose of anything is a problem---and will be in smooth sailing from now on.

kurquhart1 · 02/04/2009, 09:41 PM

just to reply. my canister is 3 times the amount of flow needed for the 30 gallon. i also have a koralia 3 powerhead in there so i have plenty flow.

i definately have a better grasp on this now. i feel alot happier that the problem is solved now. i had some fish die, but i feel happier learning from the problem now then in the future when the tank is really going. i will definately be getting a skimmer and RO unit very soon. then i wont need to use conditioners and that will clear up alot of headaches for someone new such as myself.

there is a big al's where i am but it doesnt seem all that clean. not all that dirty either. there prices are alo crazy but being the only store near me i have no choice. buying online in canada is crazy and you get raped on shipping. hamilton doesnt seem to popular for saltwater so im not sure on any clubs or if they are that easy to find.

Sk8r · 02/05/2009, 09:42 AM

Well, a 4-week quarantine tank and very high water quality can solve the 'clean' bit. And white vinegar can clean up used equipment like new ( a great savings, if you know what you're looking for). Also---don't buy a fish that has just arrived at the shop, no matter how badly you want it. This frequently ends badly. Give it about 4 weeks in the shop tanks before you buy it---they have records, I'd hope, that give a clue as to when it came in. This is no sub for quarantine, but it does assure it was in decent health when you bought it.

02/04/2009, 03:00 PM	#28
Chago09 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Georgetown Posts: 1,132	guys you can't overdose on Prime, trust me I know first hand. I dropped a entire large bottle into a tank. By the time I grabbed it out it was half empty. Who knows how much actually came out since the bottle could have filled with salt water. On the bottle it says you can dose 4 times the recomended amount safely, so really like 8 times until you actually cause harm. My first question to you is, how much flow do you have in your tank?? are you only using a canister filter? Killing chromis, just doesn't seem right?? I have some in my tank that I really wouldn't mind if they died LOL but they never do. Which leads me to think that there is something serioulsy wrong with your tank or the stock your getting. Your in Hamilton, isn't there a big als in steel town??? there stock isn't Grade A but there usually pretty good with some TLC to fatten them up. As per the Naso, I bet it was sick before you bought it, then the stress of the 30 gallon finished the job. Tangs are tangs. They are not easy to keep in any situation. I had a Powder Blue tang for over a year and all of a sudden one day out of nowhere it got ick and died. There was absolutly no fluctuation in water quality. Although again whats your flow??? SW requires good flow. __________________ Currently no tank!

02/04/2009, 07:25 PM	#30
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Remember that to keep these creatures alive, you want to replicate the ocean they came from. Your salt mix is dehydrated ocean, with buffers, calcium, salt, magnesium, trace elements, etc.---and what you want to add it to should be H20 so pure and stripped of elements other than H's and O's that it's just 0 other things. That's what ro/di water is...no mineral content but H's and O's. When you add salt mix, it becomes buffered, balanced ocean, and stays that way until your critters use up some of the chemicals...or add a few from their food. Your skimmer is to remove spare amino acids (complex protein stuff). Your live rock is to get rid of decomposing poo and food, nitrate stuff. If you start more with the idea of creating and keeping very good water rather than how you're going to eliminate waste, your tank will be happy---IF you have the live rock and skimmer that will take care of those 'waste' things for you. A marine tank using live rock and skimmer is incredibly carefree, compared to freshwater, in my own experience---no filters to clean, just a skimmer to dump every few days. Just a way of looking at it. But I hope now you've got a handle on your problem---25x overdose of anything is a problem---and will be in smooth sailing from now on. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

02/05/2009, 09:42 AM	#32
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Well, a 4-week quarantine tank and very high water quality can solve the 'clean' bit. And white vinegar can clean up used equipment like new ( a great savings, if you know what you're looking for). Also---don't buy a fish that has just arrived at the shop, no matter how badly you want it. This frequently ends badly. Give it about 4 weeks in the shop tanks before you buy it---they have records, I'd hope, that give a clue as to when it came in. This is no sub for quarantine, but it does assure it was in decent health when you bought it. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

02/04/2009, 12:50 PM	#26
scarysdad Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Scotland Posts: 86	Thought that you'd been overdoing the Prime Kurquart1. Yeah you only dechlorinate the water you are adding not the whole tank every time FYI the one capful of Prime will dechlorinate 2 x the entire tank !! You have been overdosing by a factor of 25x every w/c all this chemical is in your tank not bound to any Chlorine. What I would do now is definitely find a source of RO water Walmart or LFS and do a large w/c on the 30 with it. If you can't get hold of RO do nothing do not add anymore tap + Prime you will only worsen the problem. Although it states on the bottle that Prime does not overactivate skimmers trust me it does so when you move on to your big tank and get a skimmer you are going to get mountains of foam and no skimmate. One last point about Prime....and Seachem who make it warned about this although it is not on the bottle NEVER use it with Copper containing meds it is lethal.....which also really renders it useless in a QT tank where you want to treat your new fish for possible illness. Prime is a brilliant product(I use it exclusively on all my FW tanks)...it is the only conditioner I know that gets rid of Chloroamines without actually increasing ammonia in the tank.....but you have to be careful.... Glad I could help Craig

02/04/2009, 02:46 PM	#27
sdc19982002 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Wills Point,Texas Posts: 925	Most of the de-chlorinators and water conditioners lower your dissolved oxygen in your tank. By overdosing the prime and by not running a skimmer (to add oxygen) I'm pretty sure that did it. Just remember to let your water sit for a while before putting it in the tank or run a powerhead in your mixing bucket. I would do a 50% water change and dont add anything except salt to the water. let it sit for a week and you should be ok. Good luck..

02/04/2009, 03:06 PM	#29
sdc19982002 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Wills Point,Texas Posts: 925	[ [B]guys you can't overdose on Prime, trust me I know first hand. I dropped a entire large bottle into a tank. By the time I grabbed it out it was half empty. Who knows how much actually came out since the bottle could have filled with salt water. On the bottle it says you can dose 4 times the recomended amount safely, so really like 8 times until you actually cause harm. He overdosed by about 25 times. I can assure you in a 30 gallon tank, thats bad news.

02/04/2009, 09:41 PM	#31
kurquhart1 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: hamilton ontario canada Posts: 141	just to reply. my canister is 3 times the amount of flow needed for the 30 gallon. i also have a koralia 3 powerhead in there so i have plenty flow. i definately have a better grasp on this now. i feel alot happier that the problem is solved now. i had some fish die, but i feel happier learning from the problem now then in the future when the tank is really going. i will definately be getting a skimmer and RO unit very soon. then i wont need to use conditioners and that will clear up alot of headaches for someone new such as myself. there is a big al's where i am but it doesnt seem all that clean. not all that dirty either. there prices are alo crazy but being the only store near me i have no choice. buying online in canada is crazy and you get raped on shipping. hamilton doesnt seem to popular for saltwater so im not sure on any clubs or if they are that easy to find.