Filter question on 40 breeder

[BCarratura]

Okay so I've read that you don't need a refugium, sump, wet/dry/ on any tank under 55 gallons. this seems very general to me and I have a 40 breeder that I'm setting up as we speak.

Here is my situation.

I have 2 hydors 400gph, 1 hydor 240 gph, aquac remora skimmer, 1 - 150 mh 2-t5 actinic. 40 lbs live sand, 60 lbs live rock. I have a marine land 350 running on it. I have a small amount of reef carbon and just two sponges on it.

I rinse the sponges every 2 days. Do I really need these methods of filtration? Wouldn't the live rock suffice with a small bio load? I"m looking for more corals / anemone's than anything. Crustrations, snails, etc. A few fish. Not many, all small ones. So what does everyone more experienced think?

If i need one I'll buy one, I just don't want to if I don't.
Thanks!

[fishoutawater]

You might not "need" a sump, but I can't imagine a tank without one. Great place to hide extra equipment, heaters, ato, skimmer, etc. Also make it much easier to dose supplements and if plumbed correctly make water changes much easier. They also help with oxygenating your water and with controlling your tank temperatures. A fuge in your sump with some macroalgae will help with nitrates, and if you put it on a reverse lighting schedule it will help stabilize your ph swings from day to night. And......

[BCarratura]

What if I mod a Aquaclear 110 to a refugium? Seems easy enough. Would I then need that Marineland 350 on there also? Any info would help!
Thanks again.

[Jenisiz]

That would work. It's enough room to hide your heater and depending on your skimmer, a nice place for your outlet. I've done this in the past with a marineland biowheel style (Removed the wheel). Great for breaking up the surface.

[runningstix]

I had a 46 bowfront with a canister filter. Used to stuff carbon and filter floss. Now I have a 58 with a sump/refugium. I will never ever ever go the route sumpless. It makes your life easier and your tank more stable.

[Aquabucket]

You really don't need the sponges but they can help if you continue to rinse them occasionally. Every 2 days is overkill though. Every 2 weeks would be more than enough.

Assembling your rock work to wall off an area for chaetomorpha inside your display that can be an effective option over an external refugium. One advantage of this is the strong lighting it can get making the algae a bit more effective. It also makes a great haven for small pods and other organisms.

[Juruense]

I do not have a sump. However it would be nice to hide all the equipment. But a sump, overflow, and pump are a significant expense you can make due without.

I agree on chaeto in the DT, it actually looks nice (to me) and grows pods well.

[BCarratura]

First off, the replies I've been getting have been great, I really appreciate all the input.

2nd- How do i convert the BIO WHEEL to a refugium? I currently have 4 bio wheels in my house lol. We have a lot of tanks, we = my roomates and I. I have a 150, 200, 350, and 100. I'd like to mod the 350 if I could, but that has two split sides to it.
I also have a aquaclear 50. I just think that would be a bit small for a refugium.

Any input helps! Thanks again!

[BCarratura]

Oh I forgot to ask this also. I have a 40 Breeder total tank gph is 1024 gph in the tank. RemoraC Protein Skimmer.

Do i even need a filter?? Wouldn't the live rock be sufficeint with the filtration? Isn't that what people say at least?

[fishoutawater]

Your skimmer is the mechanical filter, your live rock is your biological filter. Water movement keeps detritus from settling in your tank. That should be all you need.

[Tens]

i would diffenitley put in a sump at least a 10g to hide your heater,skimmer ect... i have a 40g tank and use a 30g sump/fuge its been working great for me but what ever you can fit under your tank i would go with.

[cubsFAN]

you dont need a sump/fuge. youll be fine with your skimmer,live rock, water changes. that being said you would be better off with the sump/fuge, but it is not necessary to be successful.

[noboddi]

Originally posted by cubsFAN
you dont need a sump/fuge. youll be fine with your skimmer,live rock, water changes. that being said you would be better off with the sump/fuge, but it is not necessary to be successful.

+1

They just make life easier. I would keep cleaning the sponges a couple times a week.

[Juruense]

The problem though with a sump is that it is a very large expense and when starting up it is a large expense on top of the large expenses of skimmer, lights, rock/sand, and misc stuff.

sump is going to cost $250 easily
overflow is easily going to be $100
return pump is going to be $100+

Sure you can DIY all this stuff if you are experienced and knowledgable but most beginners aren't.

So yeah, $450 to hide the equipment is not worth it to me. Someday yes but now no.

[BCarratura]

Okay great everyone, thank you for all your input. I'm going to go without the sump to be honest with you. I do understand that it increases your water volume and also gives you a place to hide most of your equiptment but just like the comment earlier, it is expensive and not necessary so I'm going to skip it right now.

I do have one last question. Sorry for all the questions and thank you for all the answers!!!!!!

I just got the skimmer put on last night. AquaC Remora skimmer to be exact. It says it takes about a week to break it in. Should I leave the Marineland Pengiun 350 on it for a week or so till the skimmer breaks in? Or do you think its okay to remove it right now? Tank is fully cycled.

Right now all I have in it is a Green Bubble, Pulsating Xenia, and one clown fish the size being about a inch and half. Green bubble is doing very well and has expanded to twice its size since the I bought it in the store. The pulsating xenia, one of my favs, I bought about 6 stalks on a decent size piece of live rock and two of the stalks are actually moving to another piece of live rock. So I'm thrilled about that. They are all out pulsating and extended beautifully. They really flurished when I added the other hydor. Which makes sense since they like current.

Okay now i'm just rambling on about my tank. I have to give it to all of you, Saltwater is def the way to go over fresh in my opinion. I do have a large fresh biotope though, housing a yellow perch, rainbow trout, bullhead, and a sunfish. I love the fresh tank, but once those fish expire so to speak, i will convert it to salt!

Thanks again everyone!
If I get the okay, I'll remove the Penguin tonight.

[Jenisiz]

I use a remora c temporarily...it really takes about a month to function. Ontop of that you will get microbubbles in the display. If you lived close, I'd give you my bubble trap but alas. As for the biowheel, just replace the impeller with a slower one. Then put some plastic mesh on the front and remove the wheel. Then throw a little sand in it along with some chaeto and a small light and your good. The work wonders.

[Electrobes]

I have a sumpless 40Br, as does Aquabucket. I do encourage you to read his thread, you'll learn quite a bit. As for only using a skimmer and rocks for your filtration... yes it will work but only if your husbandry skills are up to par. Any additional filtration will at least make your tank handle more consistently and if anything it will minimize problematic situations that just happen (Happens to everyone in this hobby).

I personally don't use a skimmer.. the micro-bubbles drove me crazy as well as my live stock and I grew impatient. But this meant my husbandry skills had to be more spot on as skimmers really are extremely useful to the point that I wouldn't go without suggesting every new hobbyist use one in the beginning.

I do use carbon (I have a softy dominated tank, and this helps minimize chemical warfare). I fully believe the use of carbon and think you should continue it's use, it helps clarity in water for light penetration plus pulls out funk. I also use a phosphate pad (Polyfilter) in addition to the carbon just to have it (It's a nice security measure, plus prepared foods will have it, regardless of what is stated). All of this is housed in a reactor, which I also suggest as it is the best way to use such filtration components.

I didn't have any luck using chaeto in my tank as Aquabucket does. If I could do it successfully I would do it, Which reminds me, don't get damsels.. they are mean to chaeto balls . Aside from filtration the abundance of life coming from a ball of chaeto (Especially if it's inside your display tank) is well worth it.

I don't suggest using sand in a HOB refugium. IMO it's just not worth using and it can get messy to clean up over time. I would leave it BB and come time for maintenance just vacuum the funk off the floor. It easy and makes general clean up faster.

HTH

[BCarratura]

BB = Bare Bones?

[msn711]

I also have a sumpless 40 breeder. You don't NEED a sump, and IME, it only made life more complicated. You also don't need the HOB filter unless you just want to turn it into a fuge. Take everything out, put in chaeto, and put a light on top...done. One of the great things about this hobby is that you can make it as simple or as complicated as you want. Focus on the type of animals you want to keep (you have to be more specific than corals, anemones and fish), research their needs, and build your tank around them. What I found to be very helpful: look at tanks that you consider ideal and figure out what methods/equipment they're using and try to copy them.

[Electrobes]

I'm sorry.. BB is bare bottom.

[BCarratura]

won't let me search to find aquabuckets posts. Any ideas? Say's i need to be a premium member....?

[Aquabucket]

Here ya go.

[Juruense]

I find it painful to look at aquabucket's tank actually. It makes me sad and jealous...

[Electrobes]

You and I both