Going Barebottom

gibson981 · 03/09/2009, 09:22 AM

I am going to remove my sand bed. What is the best method? Scoop a few cups every couple of days until it's gone? I'm not sure my gravel vac will pick up very much of it. Also, I looked at US Plastics for something to cover the bottom. Seems kind of expensive. Can I use a plain plastic cutting board from Wal-Mart? Please post pics of any material you use to cover the glass.

gibson981 · 03/09/2009, 10:10 AM

Just checking for replies before my lunch break ends.

Aerowen · 03/09/2009, 10:13 AM

i have vacummed out pieces of sand bed with no problem, but if you can't do that then scoop out a few cupfulls out will work. You can use something called starboard to cover the bottom.

faze07hd · 03/09/2009, 10:13 AM

did you see any?

haha, sorry

stanlalee · 03/09/2009, 01:20 PM

siphon it out. use a bigger hose than normal like a 1" hose so that small rocks and larger pieces dont get stuck. you basically do it water change siphon style and plan on having ALOT of replacement saltwater on hand if your going to do it all in one shot. keep the hose in sand, you want sand not water. I did mine over the course of several water changes and all I have is a 30g with a shallow bed. its much easier if you take out the rocks/scaping but that wasn't an option for me. I did temperarily move some rock from one side to the other side but I wasn't rearranging everything.

Tens · 03/09/2009, 02:00 PM

i am currently taking out my sandbed as well. everytime i do a water change i syphon as much sand as i can out of the tank. im in no rush so im just taking my time w/ this project

Ratpack · 03/09/2009, 02:36 PM

When looking for something to go on the bottom, search HDPE, not Starboard. Starboard is a brand name and is usually higher in price than generic HDPE. I was able to get a piece of 1/2" HDPE from a local plastics company to fit my 75g (same as 90g) for $35. You can also use lexan or plexiglass if you can get that. Key is to have something reef safe and thick enough to support your rock.

tbar · 03/09/2009, 03:31 PM

I did about 20% at a time over five regular WC's in my 125. Like Stanlalee said you might use a bigger hose when you siphon it out, I did not and it was a PITA at times getting small rocks and shells stuck in the hose.

bmartin · 03/09/2009, 04:53 PM

Siphon some out each waterchange. I did this within 4 waterchanges and had no problems.

gibson981 · 03/10/2009, 06:18 AM

Thanks for all the replies so far. If anyone has more, please feel free. Slow on the change over is fine for me. I don't mind taking time to get this done. I plan on having this tank for a few years before I upgrade to a 300.

crvz · 03/10/2009, 06:32 AM

I would pull it out slowly. Even though it probably won't matter, allowing the tank some time to adjust to the shift by periodically removing the sand bed is likely the safest approach.

Reefski's · 03/10/2009, 06:46 AM

why do you want to remove it?

gibson981 · 03/10/2009, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Reefski's
why do you want to remove it?

So I can add more flow without creating a sandstorm. So I won't have a waist trap in my display. I have read a few threads about people going barebottom. From what I have read, the pros far outweigh the cons.

Reefski's · 03/10/2009, 08:58 AM

have you read this article by a scientist?

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-0...ture/index.php

part of a complete ecosystem.

Carl

Fig70g · 03/10/2009, 09:29 AM

I currently have a SSB in my DT and a RDSB plumbed into my system, I feel the sand can be important. On the flip side, that article is from 03 and I believe in the past 5 yrs there have been some very good arguements as well as amazing tanks that support going BB.

Ratpack · 03/10/2009, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gibson981
So I can add more flow without creating a sandstorm. So I won't have a waist trap in my display. I have read a few threads about people going barebottom. From what I have read, the pros far outweigh the cons.

I agree with this. I had sand for the last year or so and hated it after awhile. Could not keep as many fish as I wanted without nitrates and phosphates going through the roof. Only way I was able to get rid of HA was tear it down. My 75g is now BB and I have 8 good sized fish in there and feed often and to date, the nitrates are 0 and no algae in sight.

crvz · 03/10/2009, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Reefski's
have you read this article by a scientist?

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-0...ture/index.php

part of a complete ecosystem.

Carl

I disagree quite strongly with the opening few paragraphs of that article, which implies that the aquariums we keep are good replicas of the reef environment. In a closed setup with limit substrate, I struggle to concur with the comparison. I've had much better success after I stopped relying on the sandbed and have enjoyed my tank considerably more ever since I removed it a number of years ago.

That's not to say that you can't implement a sandbed with success, but to imply that one is needed is a fallicy.

Fig70g · 03/10/2009, 09:56 AM

I had to come back and ask a question since there are a few of you already going BB. During my move, I had to move all inhabitants to a 30g temporary tank. I didnt put sand in it because it was only for a month or so, I did put down a layer of acrylic (it may have been plexi-glass) to protect the bottom glass. I noticed a number of bubbles under the acrylic sheet, what was this? I believe it would be nitrogen gas build up, but how do you prevent that or is it bad? Thanks!

Reefski's · 03/10/2009, 10:40 AM

nitrogen will just off gas to the air.

in my last tank which was a 260 gallon BB i had high nitrates like over 30ppm. i didn't test then for PO4 so i don't know what that was.

i set up a 55 gallon RDSB and the nitrates went down to about 10ppm.

then i moved the tank and added a DSB in the 260 and kept the RDSB. the nitrates soon went to 1ppm.

the sand was the 2-3 mm size and full of life within just a few months.

not the sand bed but part of the diversity of a healthy live rock.

i broke this tank down and moved all livestock and LR into my new tank. i did not use the existing sand as i wanted to go with a sugar fine sand.

i left the tank empty of fish for 6 months and just let the infauna grow. there was a diverse population of things in the sand bed as well as on the rock including algae which all disappeared when i added the tangs.

the nitrates tested 0.7 yesterday and the PO4 tested 0.03

i might add that i have a large skimmer and Algae Turf Scrubber along with a sump of equal volume to the tank.

the skimmer is producing less and less as the sumps mature.

Carl

Carl

my nitrates tested

Ratpack · 03/10/2009, 12:28 PM

I think sand can work as long as you are diligent with water changes, lower feedings, lower fish load and so forth. The benefit to BB is you can be somewhat laxed on these and still maintain near perfect water conditions.

Was the algae turf scrubber on the tank prior when you were getting low nitrates and phosphates?

Reefski's · 03/10/2009, 12:34 PM

algae turf scrubber is only on the new tank.

low nitrates on old tank with DSB.

nitrates and PO4 has lowered after ATS, nitrates never over 7ppm, po4 more troublesome at high of 0.72ppm

Carl

Alaskan Reefer · 03/10/2009, 01:27 PM

I did it all in one day with rubbermaids, a lot of premixed water, and a plastic dustpan. Assuming you want to add HDPE, you eventually have to aquascape it again anyway. I did give away to friends most of my corals and all but 2 fish before doing so -- I didn't really want all of those softies / LPS any more anyway.

I could not be happier with the decision -- sparkling clean tank, skimmer earning it's paycheck, heavy duty flow that the fish clearly enjoy, and woohoo no sand to stir / siphon.

Anemonebuff · 03/10/2009, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tens
i am currently taking out my sandbed as well. everytime i do a water change i syphon as much sand as i can out of the tank. im in no rush so im just taking my time w/ this project

I am doing the same thing too. I am about half way there.

saltydude · 03/10/2009, 02:17 PM

I have been slowly sucking out the sand in my tank. Most of the rest will be gone this weekend. I am leaving some in tank under the rocks, atleast for now. Will be adding more flow to tank once sand is gone. Probally put some of the newer pumps on timer to give fish a good nights sleep.

03/09/2009, 09:22 AM	#1
gibson981 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: west side of Indianapolis Posts: 451	Going Barebottom I am going to remove my sand bed. What is the best method? Scoop a few cups every couple of days until it's gone? I'm not sure my gravel vac will pick up very much of it. Also, I looked at US Plastics for something to cover the bottom. Seems kind of expensive. Can I use a plain plastic cutting board from Wal-Mart? Please post pics of any material you use to cover the glass. __________________ Gerald Current Tank Info: 90g, built in overflow, 2 Reeflux 20k 250w, 2 Ice Cap 250w elec ballasts, 2 Hydor Koralia's 3 and 2, 29g sump, RIO 3100 return, AquaC EV180 w/Mag 9, GEO 612 Ca Reactor, 85# live rock (half Fiji, half Kalieni), 180# live sand.

03/09/2009, 10:10 AM	#2
gibson981 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: west side of Indianapolis Posts: 451	Just checking for replies before my lunch break ends. __________________ Gerald Current Tank Info: 90g, built in overflow, 2 Reeflux 20k 250w, 2 Ice Cap 250w elec ballasts, 2 Hydor Koralia's 3 and 2, 29g sump, RIO 3100 return, AquaC EV180 w/Mag 9, GEO 612 Ca Reactor, 85# live rock (half Fiji, half Kalieni), 180# live sand.

03/09/2009, 10:13 AM	#4
faze07hd Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Utica, Ny Posts: 914	did you see any? haha, sorry __________________ Harry Current Tank Info: 90 gallon reef tank

03/09/2009, 02:00 PM	#6
Tens Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: California Posts: 130	i am currently taking out my sandbed as well. everytime i do a water change i syphon as much sand as i can out of the tank. im in no rush so im just taking my time w/ this project __________________ Triple Shot White Mocha Current Tank Info: 40g reef tank 250w Sundial HQI pendant, 30g Sump/fuge

03/09/2009, 03:31 PM	#8
tbar Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: SE Virginia Posts: 452	I did about 20% at a time over five regular WC's in my 125. Like Stanlalee said you might use a bigger hose when you siphon it out, I did not and it was a PITA at times getting small rocks and shells stuck in the hose. __________________ I have done a 5 gal water change (about 17%) every week since week one. Hopefully having this posted here will motivate me enough to keep doing so. Current Tank Info: 33L, Two 36" 24 watt Marineland LED's, Tunze 9002 Skimmer, 2 Koralia 1's, pico hob filter for carbon.

03/09/2009, 10:13 AM	#3
Aerowen Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Long island, NY Posts: 497	i have vacummed out pieces of sand bed with no problem, but if you can't do that then scoop out a few cupfulls out will work. You can use something called starboard to cover the bottom.

03/09/2009, 01:20 PM	#5
stanlalee Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: hampton roads, va Posts: 1,799	siphon it out. use a bigger hose than normal like a 1" hose so that small rocks and larger pieces dont get stuck. you basically do it water change siphon style and plan on having ALOT of replacement saltwater on hand if your going to do it all in one shot. keep the hose in sand, you want sand not water. I did mine over the course of several water changes and all I have is a 30g with a shallow bed. its much easier if you take out the rocks/scaping but that wasn't an option for me. I did temperarily move some rock from one side to the other side but I wasn't rearranging everything.

03/09/2009, 02:36 PM	#7
Ratpack Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Lexington, SC Posts: 709	When looking for something to go on the bottom, search HDPE, not Starboard. Starboard is a brand name and is usually higher in price than generic HDPE. I was able to get a piece of 1/2" HDPE from a local plastics company to fit my 75g (same as 90g) for $35. You can also use lexan or plexiglass if you can get that. Key is to have something reef safe and thick enough to support your rock.

03/09/2009, 04:53 PM	#9
bmartin Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Bellevue,NE Posts: 214	Siphon some out each waterchange. I did this within 4 waterchanges and had no problems.

03/10/2009, 06:18 AM	#10
gibson981 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: west side of Indianapolis Posts: 451	Thanks for all the replies so far. If anyone has more, please feel free. Slow on the change over is fine for me. I don't mind taking time to get this done. I plan on having this tank for a few years before I upgrade to a 300. __________________ Gerald Current Tank Info: 90g, built in overflow, 2 Reeflux 20k 250w, 2 Ice Cap 250w elec ballasts, 2 Hydor Koralia's 3 and 2, 29g sump, RIO 3100 return, AquaC EV180 w/Mag 9, GEO 612 Ca Reactor, 85# live rock (half Fiji, half Kalieni), 180# live sand.

03/10/2009, 06:32 AM	#11
crvz Team RC Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: houstonia Posts: 7,989	I would pull it out slowly. Even though it probably won't matter, allowing the tank some time to adjust to the shift by periodically removing the sand bed is likely the safest approach. __________________ -Chris- You don't win friends with salad. "Look! They're trying to learn for free!" ... "Use your phony guns as clubs!" Current Tank Info: rectangluar? wet?

03/10/2009, 06:46 AM	#12
Reefski's Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Topanga Posts: 3,016	why do you want to remove it?

03/10/2009, 08:58 AM	#14
Reefski's Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Topanga Posts: 3,016	have you read this article by a scientist? http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-0...ture/index.php part of a complete ecosystem. Carl

03/10/2009, 09:29 AM	#15
Fig70g Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Scottsdale, AZ Posts: 637	I currently have a SSB in my DT and a RDSB plumbed into my system, I feel the sand can be important. On the flip side, that article is from 03 and I believe in the past 5 yrs there have been some very good arguements as well as amazing tanks that support going BB. __________________ Kevin "The older you get, the more rules they are going to try and get you to follow. You just gotta keep on livin', man. L-I-V-I-N" Current Tank Info: 75g mixed reef, 30g sump, Little Giant 3MDQ return, split to 5g fuge. ASM G1x skimmer. T5 lighting

03/10/2009, 09:56 AM	#18
Fig70g Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Scottsdale, AZ Posts: 637	I had to come back and ask a question since there are a few of you already going BB. During my move, I had to move all inhabitants to a 30g temporary tank. I didnt put sand in it because it was only for a month or so, I did put down a layer of acrylic (it may have been plexi-glass) to protect the bottom glass. I noticed a number of bubbles under the acrylic sheet, what was this? I believe it would be nitrogen gas build up, but how do you prevent that or is it bad? Thanks! __________________ Kevin "The older you get, the more rules they are going to try and get you to follow. You just gotta keep on livin', man. L-I-V-I-N" Current Tank Info: 75g mixed reef, 30g sump, Little Giant 3MDQ return, split to 5g fuge. ASM G1x skimmer. T5 lighting

03/10/2009, 10:40 AM	#19
Reefski's Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Topanga Posts: 3,016	nitrogen will just off gas to the air. in my last tank which was a 260 gallon BB i had high nitrates like over 30ppm. i didn't test then for PO4 so i don't know what that was. i set up a 55 gallon RDSB and the nitrates went down to about 10ppm. then i moved the tank and added a DSB in the 260 and kept the RDSB. the nitrates soon went to 1ppm. the sand was the 2-3 mm size and full of life within just a few months. not the sand bed but part of the diversity of a healthy live rock. i broke this tank down and moved all livestock and LR into my new tank. i did not use the existing sand as i wanted to go with a sugar fine sand. i left the tank empty of fish for 6 months and just let the infauna grow. there was a diverse population of things in the sand bed as well as on the rock including algae which all disappeared when i added the tangs. the nitrates tested 0.7 yesterday and the PO4 tested 0.03 i might add that i have a large skimmer and Algae Turf Scrubber along with a sump of equal volume to the tank. the skimmer is producing less and less as the sumps mature. Carl Carl my nitrates tested

03/10/2009, 12:28 PM	#20
Ratpack Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Lexington, SC Posts: 709	I think sand can work as long as you are diligent with water changes, lower feedings, lower fish load and so forth. The benefit to BB is you can be somewhat laxed on these and still maintain near perfect water conditions. Was the algae turf scrubber on the tank prior when you were getting low nitrates and phosphates?

03/10/2009, 12:34 PM	#21
Reefski's Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Topanga Posts: 3,016	algae turf scrubber is only on the new tank. low nitrates on old tank with DSB. nitrates and PO4 has lowered after ATS, nitrates never over 7ppm, po4 more troublesome at high of 0.72ppm Carl

03/10/2009, 01:27 PM	#22
Alaskan Reefer Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Eagle River, Alaska Posts: 2,360	I did it all in one day with rubbermaids, a lot of premixed water, and a plastic dustpan. Assuming you want to add HDPE, you eventually have to aquascape it again anyway. I did give away to friends most of my corals and all but 2 fish before doing so -- I didn't really want all of those softies / LPS any more anyway. I could not be happier with the decision -- sparkling clean tank, skimmer earning it's paycheck, heavy duty flow that the fish clearly enjoy, and woohoo no sand to stir / siphon. __________________ Unattended children will be given double shot espresso and a free puppy. Current Tank Info: 125g FOWLR -- Conversion Back To SPS In Progress

03/10/2009, 02:17 PM	#24
saltydude Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 312	I have been slowly sucking out the sand in my tank. Most of the rest will be gone this weekend. I am leaving some in tank under the rocks, atleast for now. Will be adding more flow to tank once sand is gone. Probally put some of the newer pumps on timer to give fish a good nights sleep.