tang algae consumption

[Paco1l1d]

Hey all, just curious of natural tang preferences to different algae. Wondering as I got an Atlantic blue to control a hair algae outbreak and the guy hasn't touched the stuff. Ate up all the leafy red within a day though haha. What have you guys noticed as to which tangs eat which algae?

[adams reef 1000]

i just got a powder blue today and im not sure either... but i will def follow this thread.. i just upgraded my lighting to the nova extreme pro and got a bad red algae outbreak i hope he eats it

[Gary Majchrzak]

IME Zebrasoma species are the best choice for Bryopsis/Derbesia control. A hungry Zebrasoma will eat GHA before letting itself starve to death. Unfortunately, many people grow hair algae faster than their Tang can eat it.

[Alaskan Reefer]

My yellow and powder brown love fresh chaeto.

[Paco1l1d]

which lets me further define my next question: out of the Zebrasoma species which if any dedicate a majority of their time to feed almost exclusively on filamentous algae? And can any be substained on this without having to add nori to the tank daily, and more like a once a week snack?

[Paco1l1d]

reason I ask is my Atlantic blue wont touch the dried algae I put in the tank and also wont touch the filamentous, worried that he"ll soon wither away so looking to trade to a fish that serves the purpose for the problem im trying to solve

[jbird69]

I dont think anything actually LIKES GHA, My hippo eats it but as a last resort. emerald crabs are known to eat it, but I think most everything would prefer to eat something else. Thata typically why gha is such a problem in reef tanks.

[rendogg]

It's pretty hard to guarantee but, I find Scopas to be the most reliable Zebrasoma.

[Paco1l1d]

yeah kinda figured, so brown sailfin right? thats kinda what I was looking at? what are peoples opinions on yellows eatin the GHA? it not like I have a tank full of it probably about 25% rock coverage in 4 months with no manual removal. yellow are just the easiest to find round here with a consistent price. brown strangely enough are kinda hard to find ime.

wow i need to change my current tanks thingie on the bottom of my posts. im surprised no one has given me crap for having a tang in a 29 haha

[Aquarist007]

Originally posted by Paco1l1d
yeah kinda figured, so brown sailfin right? thats kinda what I was looking at? what are peoples opinions on yellows eatin the GHA? it not like I have a tank full of it probably about 25% rock coverage in 4 months with no manual removal. yellow are just the easiest to find round here with a consistent price. brown strangely enough are kinda hard to find ime.

wow i need to change my current tanks thingie on the bottom of my posts. im surprised no one has given me crap for having a tang in a 29 haha

I'm not a fan of introducing species to the display tank for the sole purpose of correcting a problem such as eating hair algae ect.
Alot of times they don't do what they are suppose to or do eat the problem and then go on to starve themselves.
In this particular case a sailfin is a poor choice in that its adult size is way too big for a 75 gallon tank.

That said when I first setup my tank I purchase a yellow tang and a coral beauty--they cleaned up all the hair algae in two days and have been great tank members since. I did however purchase them because I wanted them in my tank.

____________________________________________________

As regards to ridding hair algae or other nuisance algae you are best to look it from the perspective of limiting the importing of phosphates and nitrates--the food for algae. Eliminate the food source you eliminate the algae

Here are some tips to do that from the Capn's log book blog:

Capn's collection of shock and awe against algae

Most of the time algae is the symptom of the problem, not the problem itself.

Algae needs three things for the process of photosythesis to occur--carbon dioxide, light and food. If we could completely remove one of these elements it would not be able to survive.
Unfortunately in our reef tanks it is difficult to remove light and carbon dioxide completely but we can sereverly limit its food, mainly nitrates and phosphates.

If you have an algae problem then it should be approached in a way that limits the nitrates and phosphates in your water column

This is a combination of steps and practises rather then one magic bullet that will kill off all the algae in your tank.

Here is a list of practises that have been mentioned through a great number of posts that I have been proactive in and hopefully if they are together they might help

1. Feeding techniques----always feed less at one time but feed more often if the species of fish requires it. My fish always look hungry and so does my dog--they learn how to scam us humans very quickly.
Rinse off frozen prepared foods like brine shrimp and mysis shrimp. Quite often they contain phosphates and nitrates from die off in their holding tanks.

2. Flow rates and directions of flow can make a big difference
A rate that is quoted here quite often is that you should have between 20-40 times your tank volume in gph if your tank is mostly lps and even greater if mainly sps corals. There are still some expections with lps corals--you need to be on top of the husbandry requirements for each coral you have and place them accordingly.

Organic laden water slowly rises from the bottom of the tank to the top where it is skimmed off by various methods such as an overflow. Skimmed water is usually sent back to lower levels of the tank from the skimmer or sump via various ways such as loc lines.

In practical words this means that in the tank your flow should be directed to always enhance the above natural flow in the tank.
It should for a circle or semi circle and be pushed down, across the substrate up to the surface--across the surface--churning it up and towards the overflow

3.flow rates in the sump
The perfered answer for this question is between 5-10 times the total volume of your water column.
More importantly it should match the flow rate of your skimmer.
Otherwise unskimmed organic laden water is returned to the lower levels of the tank where it has to slowly make its way to the top like I desribed in the above flow senerio. This gives algae a second chance to have another lunch
This is also where flow rates and directions in the tank also help in this particular situation by getting the water back up to the top and out the overflow faster again.

Flow rates both in the sump and the tank are very important in the filtering process

4.Method of cleaning or tank maintenance
water changes---Randy has written in one of his articles that the ideal water change to remove nitrates is 30 per cent once of month
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/rhf/index.php
other reefers have stated that immediate or every two week 20 percent water changes will reduce phosphates and ammonia quickly.

cleaning the rockwork and substrate--once a week take a turkey baster and lightly baste the rock and substrate with it. this will get dissolved organics, phosphates and nitrates back into the water column where they can be filtered off instead of collecting and adding to the algae smorgasboard. Once again flow is very important in this also.

change your protein skimmer cup every other day

if running a filter sock change it everyother day---soak it in bleach and run it through a wash cycle with no soap. Let them dry in the air and the clorine will evaporate

5. tweaking equipment. Try not to run bioballs in filters. Replace them and all filter media with nothing!
The best use of a canister filter is to run straight carbon in it.

take skimmer pumps apart once a month and clean out the air venturis--make sure you have lots of air being combined to give a good foam column. This helps reduce organics but it also helps displace carbon dioxide with oxygen and keep your pH stable.

Once you have your levels of phosphates and nitrates in check then you may want to consider

1. running carbon and phospban in phosban reactors. the advantage to these is the water is forced through the entire media and can't take the easy way around the outside as when the media is put in a bag. Carbon can adsorb some phosphates and nitrates and the carbon is used by active bacteria in the tank

2. setting up a refugium with chaeto algae. You will need a good size refugium 20-30 gals and about 2-3 months of intensive cheato grow for it to make a noticeble difference on phosphates and nitrates. and the other advantage of a refugium is you get a larger and more variety of copopods, other inverts and good bacteria for the water column
There are many examples on this thread:
Refugiums the good bad and the ugly
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/s...hreadid=1349443

3. finding critters that eat algae. I leave this till the last because it is a problematic solution to algae. the critters don't always do what they are suppose to do. Putting some inverts in to eat a particular algae is great at the start but what do they feed on after they have eaten their specific food source.

4. another method that is cropping up alot more now is the use of magnesium. Magnesium should be at 1300ppm in a reef tank to support a level over 400ppm of calcium. some reefers have reported great success with cranking the level of magnesium to 1600 pppm for two weeks. the aglae dies off and none have reported any death to corals, inverts or fish.
This is discussed in detail on this thread:
A solution to Bryopsis
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showt...hreadid=1113109

Excellent threads on fighting alage

Phosphate starvation
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/s...hreadid=1383158

should I add a phosphate reactor
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showt...ghlight=phosban

how to remove phosphates
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showt...ghlight=phosban

[cveverly]

How about a Rabbitfish? I have a Two Barred that is always searching for algae to nibble on.

[Paco1l1d]

capn_hylinur: kinda figured I would get that comment eventually haha.
Nitrates: less than one
phos: undetectable.
oversized skimmer
bout 25 hundred total gph w/ head loss
alk 12
cal 420
already used the mag method to rid bryopsis (worked great!)
refugium with mass cheato
feed every other day
lightly stocked fish wise for an sps (4) 3 inch fish
the algea is not problematic w/ explosive growth just unsightly in places and honestly I dont have the time to do the manual removal thing with two jobs and school so something to do it for me would be awesome.
"In this particular case a sailfin is a poor choice in that its adult size is way too big for a 75 gallon tank."
aren't all Zebrasoma species considered a sailfin something or other? I was referring to a scopas, not a veliferum or desjardinii as the name would imply, sorry about the confusion. Scopas get bout 8 inches max right? same with a yellow?

cveverly: Not a bad idea, any particular one you would recomend? One group of fish I havent really looked into, Ill get right on that though. How reef safe are they? bought the same as a pygmy angel?

[rendogg]

Yellow tangs might eat it but I would try and get your hands on a Scopas. Scopas are so industrious and most seem to devour any algae. I have had success with Yellows though!

[Aquarist007]

Originally posted by Paco1l1d
capn_hylinur: kinda figured I would get that comment eventually haha.
Nitrates: less than one
phos: undetectable.
oversized skimmer
bout 25 hundred total gph w/ head loss
alk 12
cal 420
already used the mag method to rid bryopsis (worked great!)
refugium with mass cheato
feed every other day
lightly stocked fish wise for an sps (4) 3 inch fish
the algea is not problematic w/ explosive growth just unsightly in places and honestly I dont have the time to do the manual removal thing with two jobs and school so something to do it for me would be awesome.
"In this particular case a sailfin is a poor choice in that its adult size is way too big for a 75 gallon tank."
aren't all Zebrasoma species considered a sailfin something or other? I was referring to a scopas, not a veliferum or desjardinii as the name would imply, sorry about the confusion. Scopas get bout 8 inches max right? same with a yellow?

cveverly: Not a bad idea, any particular one you would recomend? One group of fish I havent really looked into, Ill get right on that though. How reef safe are they? bought the same as a pygmy angel?

yes they get about 8 inches---so do rabbit fish--some 9 or 10 inches.
A yellow tang should be the last tang introduced to your tank

____________________________________________________

If you have algae--you have nitrates and phosphates--its that simple.

Quite often we get zero readings for nitrates and phosphates because the algae is consuming them as fast as they are being imported.
What kind of water are you using for changes and top ups ect.
If your using ro/di water when was the last time you changed the filter cartridges.
Have you tested your "filtered
water" lately for phosphates and or nitrates?

[JustinReef]

Originally posted by rendogg
It's pretty hard to guarantee but, I find Scopas to be the most reliable Zebrasoma.

I agree as well as Kole Tangs. Both these species tend to pick at the rocks and glass all day long.

Don't know that they will keep a HA problem in check but they might help.