Thoughts of starting a 125G SW FO Tank

[bms270]

Hi RC Community!

My name is Bijan and just about to start setting up my SW tank. I used to have different FW setups in the past but I am trying to start a SW tank now. I just bought a 125G tank with some equipments and now I'm in the process of deciding what I want to do exactly. I have read some articles here for newbies but still have hard time to decide. the biggest part is my questions which I'd rather ask professionals than reading articles. (quickest way). I usually read articles when I try to dig into a subject. so anybody who can help I appreciate if you let me know. hope this place would be my second home!

Thanks,
Bijan

[E.intheC]

To Reef Central

if you have specific questions, it's always good to post them up here. take a lot of time to read, and read in sections (ex: fish/livestock, then once you make that decision, filtration, lighting, etc) (filtration and lighting will be better to make after you've decided which fish you're going to choose.)

Whatever you do, make sure to go VERY SLOW

Good luck. Feel free to ask questions. You've found a great resource.

[Sisterlimonpot]

bms270,

Welcome,

This is definitely a subject that you are going to want to "dig into" get your nose into a couple books and get a good grasp on what you want. The biggest difference between salt and fresh (despite the obvious) is how much more expensive things are if you screw up, and how touchy things can be.
On the other hand this hobby is very addicting and well worth the time and effort put forth. To me, there is nothing more gratifying than sitting in front of my tank and watching the different characteristics of each fish, and knowing that I made that possible. A little bit of the reef in my living room.

Do you have any specific questions that we can try and help you with?

[bms270]

Ok! So first of all let me clarify what I have in mind. Please correct me if you see I'm using wrong terms or I am misunderstanding something.
I really like to have a reef tank (with corals - soft/hard) but right now considering time/cost of maintenance, I'd rather start with a FO tank. another reason I'm thinking of setting up a FO is because I like to have more fish than just a couple. I have read in one article here that with corals we shouldn't have more than a few fish. before I start asking my questions let me mention what I have:

- 125G AGA with double overflow
- ASM G-3 Skimmer
- Sump and Return Pump (500GPH)
- 4 stage RO
- Refractometer
- NO powerhead!!

Please feel free to advise me for any additional requirements.

Now let me start my questions:

1. As I explained, I'm thinking of setting up a FO tank. what is the minimum coral/live sand requirement to run a FO tank?

2. How many types/variety of fish I can put in my tank? Any reference?

3. What population is reasonable for 125G FO tank? (considerin Bio load,...)

4. Can I use dead reefs in my tank? I really like the look of those big dead corals. I just don't want to focus on raising reef/corals but I'm thinking about using those dead ones I can buy from decorative stores.

Well I guess these are my basic questions. the rest will depend on the answers I get.

Any Help/Advice would be highly appreciated.

Thanks,
Bijan

[bms270]

Great Quick responses while I was typing my last post! Thanks a lot E.intheC and Sisterlimonpot!

[E.intheC]

there are many variables with fish. I would try to narrow it down to a few that you'd like. Another difference with fresh and salt is that typically you'll get a lot less actual fish in your tank with salt.

when you say fish only, I hope you actually mean "FOWLR" (meaning: fish only w/ live rock) IMO, live rock is one of the most important parts of any salt water fish tank.

Your equipment list is pretty impressive, actually. You should definitely get some powerheads though. You'll need a lot of flow. If you have the cash, some Tunze's or even a Vortech will be great for your tank. If not, Maxi Jets are great as well.

The research you are about to go through is actually going to take a lot of time. You will read a whole lot and still not know enough. (I used to spend between 1 and 3 hours per day (or more) reading about fish and their compatibility) ...this went on for not days or weeks, but months and months. I'm still learning today as I read.

Do you have any fish you're thinking about getting right now?

[E.intheC]

this is also a great thread that I think everyone should read, especially the 'newbies'

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...readid=1593419

[Zestay]

i dont think maxi jet power heads are going to push water in a 125 gallon tank
i do think you should look into vortech pumps they are awesome

[bms270]

Thanks E.intheC, I dont have any special species in mind yet. I am trying to research and read as much as possible before actually go to fish store
So considering FOWLR what is the minimum required LR ? and what are different easy to maintain types?
About power heads Thanks for your advice. I will put that in my shopping list.

[Zestay]

power heads need to be considered your goal should be for FOWLR about 10x - 20x turn over rate
so you have 125 gallons
you want 1250 gallons per hour of flow - 2500 gallons per hour of flow.

id accomplish this with either 2 vortcechs ( one on each side of the tank )
or 4 korilla power heads ( either 3s or 4s or a mix of both )

[E.intheC]

Originally posted by Zestay
i dont think maxi jet power heads are going to push water in a 125 gallon tank
i do think you should look into vortech pumps they are awesome

Vortechs are awesome, but they're $400 for an MP40w.. that's an awesome amount of money. If you have it great, if not, you don't have to buy those. I'd buy the Tunze Powerheads over the Koralias, but Koralias are good as well. You really don't need a vortech (or tons of flow for that matter) if you're getting slow moving fish like puffers.. you still need flow, but not as much as a reef tank.

I have modded MJ's, and those certainly push enough water. Inexpensive too.

And that's good that you're waiting until you've read more. I wish I was like that when I first started out.

Live rock.. the best advice .. get the most porous (read: lightest per surface area) that you can. Try to get some nice pieces from a friend/fellow reefer that you know and trust to have treated their rock well. It's pretty easy to take care of. (this is also a great time to start reading about the nitrogen cycle if you haven't yet)

There's not really a 'lb per gallon rule'.. (there is, I just don't go by it, b/c it's outdated and really not a good way to do things) HOWEVER, typically people recommend about a pound per gallon, just to get you started. Again, buy rock that's not heavy and is very porous.

[bms270]

Great, so I guess I will try to get Tunze since I cant afford vortech. lets move on to next question: What population is reasonable for 125G FO tank? I guess FO with minimal required LR. I like to have as many as possible fish. what fish are easier to maintain in General?

[E.intheC]

these types of questions are harder to answer carte blanche like that. You have to figure out what you like and go from there. If you want large fish, obviously you'll have much less fish than if you have smaller ones.

Liveaquaria.com and bluezooaquatics.com are good websites to get you started. They have a 'rating' system. Stick with beginner fish.

Don't follow any rules like '1 inch of fish per xyz gallons'.. it just doesn't work for saltwater.

Once you get some fish that you like, read about their behavior, and see if they'll get along.

When you get that more narrowed down, post a proposed stocking list on here, and we'll help you out.

[drparker]

Yes you can use dead reef rock it's called base rock, but I'd get it from fish store. The stuff in the decorative places might have been treated and there's no reason to take a chance in putting a toxic rock in your system. By using half base rock to LR you'll save a lot of money and the LR rock will seed the base rock. So it will be come LR in your tank.

[ldallen95219]

Hi Bijan: I am a newbie to to this saltwater world also and I am also going with FO tank. I have a very good source "Elliott" at my local fish store where I go and he answers a lot of my questions. For instance I have crushed coral as opposed to sand and was wondering if I should change it. Didn't really want to as my tank was all set up. Yesterday he said I can leave the crushed coral in since I am going with fish only but will have to vacuum it more frequently. I do have about 42 lbs of live rock which he said would be plenty (I have a 55 gal. tank). I have two Aquaclean 200 filters and one heater. I took some water into him to test and my pH was perfect and my salinity is good (tank has been running for about 1 1/2 weeks). He said he didn't need to test for nitrate, ammonia or nitrite because I won't have any since there are no fish in my tank yet and he said I could now add a few. I asked about what fish to put in and pointed to some that he said would be about 4"-6" when full grown but it would take about 10 years for them to get that size. They were about 2" right now. So, for me - if it does take that long for the fish to grow I might go for it. The one fish I like was that yellow one - didn't ask the name. After all I am 60 and I am not sure if I will even want to be fussing around with a tank/fish when I turn 70 - LOL.

[E.intheC]

ok.. where to start.. ldallen... i'm afraid you have been misled. First, you will have a cycle (nitrate, ammonia, etc) even without livestock. You also should have sand, but I guess crushed coral isnt' all that bad as long as you really do a great job keeping the area clean. I'm not going to get into the filtration yet. That's another topic.

the major problem I have is with the fish advice. You really need to know exactly what fish you're buying.. for compatibility with your system and with the other fish you have, for nutrition, etc... you shouldn't ''just have a yellow one that you don't know its name''... for many, many reasons. Further, most fish will grow faster than 2 or 3 inches in 10 years... They don't "grow to the size of the tank".. myth.. If they do grow slower, it's because they're stunted, stressed out, and will have a much shorter lifespan. Especially if you have a yellow tang. You should slowly add fish. One or two per month or so, checking your nitrate levels each time. I have no idea what fish you have, but I highly doubt enough time has gone by. Soon you will have a cycle and it'll be very tough on your fish. Let's hope they're tough as well...

The best thing to do is wait, be patient, research everything first, and spend a lot of time on the boards before you make purchases. It's much, much easier this way and you will have way fewer fish losses. You really can't take a casual atttitude with saltwater. Unfortunately, it just doesn't work.

I'm not trying to be disrespectful or come off harsh, just trying to get the message across. Good luck. This is a great resource.

[drparker]

+1 to what E said. Double check everything the LFS say here. Your Live Rock is enough to start a cycle, it's the correct way to cycle a tank with just live rock. He should have tested your water for ammonia and nitrates to see if the cycle was done before recommending that you add any fish.

[bms270]

Hey ldallen,
Other people are correct about testing for the cycle before adding Fish. There are articles about how to cycle your aquarium. just poke around and take your time reading here and there.

[bms270]

I think I'm about to start my shopping now! so how much live sand and LR do I need for my 125G tank? (I'd rather to have minimum LR since I am adding dead reefs as well)

Another question, can I grab the sand from ocean/bay or any natural source and mix it with a cultured sand from FS?

Thanks,
Bijan

[Geodriller]

Never a good idea to get sand from the beach. It usually contains many toxins and pollutants. If you want to jump start the process, just buy a small bag of live sand to go with the dry sand.

as far as how much. That depends on if you want a SSB(shallow sand bed) or a DSB(deep sand bed). A shallow sand bed should be no more than 1''-1.5'' deep and stirred often (once a week).


A dsb should be at least 3.5''-4'' if it is a somewhat fine grade sand (and deeper if you choose a course sand). Alot of people do this not only for a more realistic look, but becouse of its denitrification potential. some people discourouge the use of a DSB becouse it can become exhausted if not properly maintained and cause problems years down the road. a DSB should not be stirred.

Even the simpilest q's in this hobby require alot of reaserch. You may want to do more reaserch on DSB vs SSB and decide for yourself

As far as rock, considering it is your main filter for the tank, and it sounds like you are going to have a pretty hefty bio-load, I would reccommend at least 100+lbs.

good luck

[Geodriller]

keep in mind you do not have toget all live rock, as mentioned above. you can get alot of base rock with it and the live rock will seed the base rock and in a couple months it will all be live. Great way to save alot of money considering where i live you can find Tonga for up to 14$ lbs.

[bms270]

Hi All,

I'm back again! I need some instruction (images/maps would be the best) for plumbing my sump. I have two overflows on each side of the tank and as I said before planning on FOWLR. I searched a lot but haven't been able to find a simple source that shows the basics of it. any input would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Bijan