Why is everyone against ball valves?

n00by · 06/04/2009, 01:42 PM

i'm planning on having one on my return and drain. I'll make sure the sump can support the drain level through my durso pipes but why is it bad if you're already planning on cleaning a tank and want to stop the pump. It's just a turn of a knob?

justinhass · 06/04/2009, 02:11 PM

I have them and feel there is no problem. Some people just don't like them for something that might need a fine adjustment.

Dholmblad · 06/04/2009, 02:16 PM

people who dont like them prefer a gate valve.

jbax · 06/04/2009, 02:54 PM

a ball valve is more for when you want to play in the display like water changes or something.

gate valves are more for restricting the return flow to the tank.

rdlisby · 06/04/2009, 03:03 PM

I like ball valves have used them for years and years.

VacavilleFC3S · 06/04/2009, 03:14 PM

ball valves are for starting/stopping the flow of water, because the way a ball valve works you cannot accurately restrict it, as well as your could with a gate valve, also most stands aren't that tall so if you want quick disconnects inorder to remove incase of a blockage there most likely isn't going to be room for ball valves

joesfiddy · 06/04/2009, 03:17 PM

ball valves suck they stick and dont want to turn if you dont use them often

Whys · 06/04/2009, 03:52 PM

Ball valves are smaller than gate valves, but gate valves provide finer control. Many use a ball valve on their return line to throttle back their pump, but a valve on the drain is not recommended because even a small clog could cause your display tank to overflow.

I have a ball valve on my drain which is closed slightly just after a T to the fuge. This allows a small amount of water to backup to the T and drain to the fuge for a slow flow there. A gate-valve simply wouldn't fit in the space provided.

Alaskan Reefer · 06/04/2009, 03:54 PM

Gate valves tend to be better for most applications, nothing specific against ball valves.

Sisterlimonpot · 06/04/2009, 04:13 PM

I never heard anybody being against them on a return line however I wouldn't put one on a drain line unless you have at least 2 drains.

Are you sure youâ€™re not confusing ball valves with checkvalves? Because those always fail and shouldn't be used as a means to keep your sump from overflowing.

Whys · 06/04/2009, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sisterlimonpot
Are you sure youâ€™re not confusing ball valves with checkvalves? Because those always fail and shouldn't be used as a means to keep your sump from overflowing.

I'm still testing that theory.

I agree that they are not recommended. I do not agree that their failure is a foregone conclusion anymore than any other device with moving parts. Check, maintain, replace. Failure is human error.

JM.02

Tswifty · 06/04/2009, 04:34 PM

Who's against the use of ball valves?

Whys · 06/04/2009, 04:50 PM

^^^ Cubists? :]

n00by · 06/04/2009, 05:31 PM

No, i'm talking about ball valves. So not recommended for drain, hmm... even if it's a durso drain. I mean the odds of a snail, crab, fish getting stuck in that thing is pretty slim. So then you guys recommend just a straight flow into the sump? Assuming the sump will handle the overflow.

n00by · 06/04/2009, 05:36 PM

While we're on the topic is there any point to using silicone in the upper part of the durso standpipe? The part above the glass?

Superstretch18 · 06/04/2009, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by n00by
No, i'm talking about ball valves. So not recommended for drain, hmm... even if it's a durso drain. I mean the odds of a snail, crab, fish getting stuck in that thing is pretty slim. So then you guys recommend just a straight flow into the sump? Assuming the sump will handle the overflow.

I have a durso I made myself and find snails in my sump at least once a week. They don't get sucked in, as much as they just crawl down there. Definitely agree that there should never be a valve on the drain...

jbax · 06/04/2009, 07:16 PM

if the sump can't handle the overflow you prolly have to get a bigger return pump.

Whys · 06/04/2009, 11:28 PM

You really don't want to rely on a ball valve to stop the overflow from the drain. You might not be there when the power goes out, so the sump needs to be able to handle it.

I actually run a restricted drain most of the time. There is a T before the drain valve that redirects to the fuge, but I also have a gate-valve on the fuge to precisely control the flow. This of course puts me in a similar situation with regards to a potential overflow. I break a few rules and like to live dangerously, but I've also done the calculations. Typically, the only water that will overflow the display is the volume of water that is either above or after the last baffle in the sump. Typically, there is an inch or two of tank glass above the water line. Thus if my drain clogs, which it has yet to do but likely eventually will, then the total volume of water that can possibly reach my floor is about half a gallon. I figure I take a similar risk each time I carry milk in from the car. Not a big deal to me. But my tank does receive a lot of constant observation.

I recommend putting a ball valve on your return line, after the pump, but don't restrict your drain. A straight shot is okay, that's what I have, but I've read others say that a curved drain can help reduce micro-bubbles. I can't vouch for that however.

laugh · 06/05/2009, 12:08 AM

this thread is like deja vu

n00by · 06/05/2009, 09:21 AM

The last thread did touch on ball valves but I wanted an opinion on WHY it should not be used on a drain. I got my answer.

06/04/2009, 01:42 PM	#1
n00by Registered Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Montreal Posts: 347	Why is everyone against ball valves? i'm planning on having one on my return and drain. I'll make sure the sump can support the drain level through my durso pipes but why is it bad if you're already planning on cleaning a tank and want to stop the pump. It's just a turn of a knob?

06/04/2009, 03:17 PM	#7
joesfiddy Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Morris IL Posts: 518	ball valves suck they stick and dont want to turn if you dont use them often __________________ 250 dd, 180 reef tank 100 gal sump, 75 reef tank 30 gallon sump, 40 gal frag tank, 12 gal nano Current Tank Info: 100 gal long reef, 75 gal reef, 40 gal frag tank

06/04/2009, 03:54 PM	#9
Alaskan Reefer Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Eagle River, Alaska Posts: 2,360	Gate valves tend to be better for most applications, nothing specific against ball valves. __________________ Unattended children will be given double shot espresso and a free puppy. Current Tank Info: 125g FOWLR -- Conversion Back To SPS In Progress

06/04/2009, 04:13 PM	#10
Sisterlimonpot R.C. Fraternity President Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Litchfeild Park AZ Posts: 11,490 Blog Entries: 2	I never heard anybody being against them on a return line however I wouldn't put one on a drain line unless you have at least 2 drains. Are you sure youâ€™re not confusing ball valves with checkvalves? Because those always fail and shouldn't be used as a means to keep your sump from overflowing. __________________ Jimmy MASVC President Dishes are done man! Current Tank Info: 300 in progress

06/04/2009, 04:34 PM	#12
Tswifty Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: PA Posts: 14,022	Who's against the use of ball valves? __________________ "Enough light? Heck I could go barebottom and grow SPS in the stand!" - DiscoReefRover

06/04/2009, 02:11 PM	#2
justinhass Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Moreno Valley,Ca Posts: 71	I have them and feel there is no problem. Some people just don't like them for something that might need a fine adjustment.

06/04/2009, 02:16 PM	#3
Dholmblad Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Northern va Posts: 563	people who dont like them prefer a gate valve.

06/04/2009, 02:54 PM	#4
jbax Registered Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: palm harbor Posts: 1,425	a ball valve is more for when you want to play in the display like water changes or something. gate valves are more for restricting the return flow to the tank.

06/04/2009, 03:03 PM	#5
rdlisby Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 324	I like ball valves have used them for years and years.

06/04/2009, 03:14 PM	#6
VacavilleFC3S Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Vacaville California Posts: 2,613	ball valves are for starting/stopping the flow of water, because the way a ball valve works you cannot accurately restrict it, as well as your could with a gate valve, also most stands aren't that tall so if you want quick disconnects inorder to remove incase of a blockage there most likely isn't going to be room for ball valves

06/04/2009, 03:52 PM	#8
Whys Moved On Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 3,263	Ball valves are smaller than gate valves, but gate valves provide finer control. Many use a ball valve on their return line to throttle back their pump, but a valve on the drain is not recommended because even a small clog could cause your display tank to overflow. I have a ball valve on my drain which is closed slightly just after a T to the fuge. This allows a small amount of water to backup to the T and drain to the fuge for a slow flow there. A gate-valve simply wouldn't fit in the space provided.

06/04/2009, 04:50 PM	#13
Whys Moved On Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 3,263	^^^ Cubists? :]

06/04/2009, 05:31 PM	#14
n00by Registered Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Montreal Posts: 347	No, i'm talking about ball valves. So not recommended for drain, hmm... even if it's a durso drain. I mean the odds of a snail, crab, fish getting stuck in that thing is pretty slim. So then you guys recommend just a straight flow into the sump? Assuming the sump will handle the overflow.

06/04/2009, 05:36 PM	#15
n00by Registered Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Montreal Posts: 347	While we're on the topic is there any point to using silicone in the upper part of the durso standpipe? The part above the glass?

06/04/2009, 07:16 PM	#17
jbax Registered Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: palm harbor Posts: 1,425	if the sump can't handle the overflow you prolly have to get a bigger return pump. __________________ 75%er 120g 4x2, dart pump, i-tech 100, tunze ato, apex controller & lunar simulator. Current Tank Info: 120g, 54 corner

06/04/2009, 11:28 PM	#18
Whys Moved On Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 3,263	You really don't want to rely on a ball valve to stop the overflow from the drain. You might not be there when the power goes out, so the sump needs to be able to handle it. I actually run a restricted drain most of the time. There is a T before the drain valve that redirects to the fuge, but I also have a gate-valve on the fuge to precisely control the flow. This of course puts me in a similar situation with regards to a potential overflow. I break a few rules and like to live dangerously, but I've also done the calculations. Typically, the only water that will overflow the display is the volume of water that is either above or after the last baffle in the sump. Typically, there is an inch or two of tank glass above the water line. Thus if my drain clogs, which it has yet to do but likely eventually will, then the total volume of water that can possibly reach my floor is about half a gallon. I figure I take a similar risk each time I carry milk in from the car. Not a big deal to me. But my tank does receive a lot of constant observation. I recommend putting a ball valve on your return line, after the pump, but don't restrict your drain. A straight shot is okay, that's what I have, but I've read others say that a curved drain can help reduce micro-bubbles. I can't vouch for that however.

06/05/2009, 12:08 AM	#19
laugh Member of the Registry Join Date: May 2004 Location: Northeast Ohio Posts: 1,226	this thread is like deja vu

06/05/2009, 09:21 AM	#20
n00by Registered Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Montreal Posts: 347	The last thread did touch on ball valves but I wanted an opinion on WHY it should not be used on a drain. I got my answer.