Help figuring out pump solution.

[sjm817]

The Eheim is a bit more efficient, 80W Vs 90W of the Mag, and has more flow with lower watts, but you aren't going to see a big change in heat from a 10 - 15W reduction. Losing the Mag7 would be the bigger change. You could also convert the 1262 to a 1260 and save some more power/watts.

[DarG]

Originally posted by PowermanKW
I chickened out. I got the 1262. Same motor block but a reduced suction port. To me I figured I could just throttle it back which I did. I did not save me an appreciable amount of heat over my 9.5 In fact I was surprised it isn't any more quieter than my 9.5. I will say it pumps more because I had to close my discharge valve more just to get it to the same place.

So this week I'm going to get a clip on fan and put it on my sump and see if it will make the difference. If not, I will tee off to my chiller and control it with my AC Jr.

I'm getting a bigger skimmer too so keeping the same amount of sump flow will not be bad. My skimmer will be processing much more water.

If you find you need to put the chiller back in line you will get most efficient cooling by returning all the water through the chiller ... sump - 1262 - chiller - tank. No bypass necessary because your flow rate will be below the max. recommended for the chiller. The 1" overflow/drain bulkhead is the limiting factor to exceeding the flow rate of the chiller.

Is the 1262 plumbed externally? If so, I am very surprised that it is adding as much heat to the water as the submerged mag 9.5 .

As far as noise, I think the comments on how quiet they are may be when they are run submerged. But I have never owned one. I always ran dedicated external-only pumps. I would get some feedback from Eheim users to make sure your 1262 is running as quietly as it is noted to run. I dont know of any silent external pumps other than the water cooled types like the Velocity pumps which are nearly silent but at the cost of more heat transferred to the tank compared to the air cooled externals.

[PowermanKW]

I will have to see if I can pass enough flow through the chiller with the added head pressure to get the flow I want through the sump. On paper at least it seems like it will and I agree that would be better that teeing it off. My plumbing is 1" flex teeing off to two 3/4" returns. I see my chiller as a very big restriction.

My pump is internal hard piped to flex PVC. My Mag had vibes that cased hum. My only point is that my Eheim does the same. I was expecting smoother pump. I realize hard piping does not allow for some vib reduction, I just sort of expected a difference over my Mag. In fact the Ehiem is a little worse. I looking at having to do some sort of vibration dampening.


On paper I realize the wattage of the two pumps is in the same ball park and will not save me a lot of heat. What I was thinking was that my Mag 9.5 was adding more heat than normal, but it seems it was running well.

[DarG]

Im confused now ...

I just read your system info and You are running a herbie overflow, right? I didnt realize this before. You shouldnt be restricted to the 600 gph with the 1" bulkhead when running a Herbie overflow because of the true siphon as opposed to a typical overflow drain. In fact, I think that Bean was running over 1500 GPH (atleast as a test) through a 1" bulkhead with his Herbie system variant. So with the true siphon of the Herbie overflow, why did you have to throttle the pump back? ... I am assuming you are throttling the pump back because you stated that you had to close the discharge valve more. Shouldnt the siphon on your drain be able to handle the full flow from the eheim pump? I could see you having to open the main siphon drain because of the higher flow but Im not sure why the pump discharge is throttled back.

Anyway ... I think its a safe bet that your Eheim pump being louder is the hard connection right from the discharge. Why not use a section of vinyl tubing from the discharge to the flex pvc. That should help. The Eheims are supposed to be quieter than the Mags.

Im lost in this thread anyway ... for some reason, I thought you were going to run the Eheim externally to help with the temp. some as well as losing the Mag 7.

As far as the Chiller goes, I dont know how much flow you will lose to the chiller with the Eheim. Obviously it depends on the pump, chiller and plumbing. But how much flow do you want through the sump anyway? I use a chiller and am running close to 900 GPH through the sump because I wasnt going to run a dedicated pump for the chiller to put it on its own loop. The 900 GPH is about middle of the range for my chiller. My system is only a 90 gallon with 38 gallon sump. I would prefer to run a bit less flow through the sump but I believe the chiller will run less efficiently. Actually, a bit more flow would probably make the chiller happy but I am close to 10X through the sump so I have to make a compromise somewhere.

[PowermanKW]

Originally posted by DarG
Im confused now ...

I just read your system info and You are running a herbie overflow, right? I didnt realize this before. You shouldnt be restricted to the 600 gph with the 1" bulkhead when running a Herbie overflow because of the true siphon as opposed to a typical overflow drain. In fact, I think that Bean was running over 1500 GPH (atleast as a test) through a 1" bulkhead with his Herbie system variant. So with the true siphon of the Herbie overflow, why did you have to throttle the pump back? ... I am assuming you are throttling the pump back because you stated that you had to close the discharge valve more. Shouldnt the siphon on your drain be able to handle the full flow from the eheim pump? I could see you having to open the main siphon drain because of the higher flow but Im not sure why the pump discharge is throttled back.

Anyway ... I think its a safe bet that your Eheim pump being louder is the hard connection right from the discharge. Why not use a section of vinyl tubing from the discharge to the flex pvc. That should help. The Eheims are supposed to be quieter than the Mags.

Im lost in this thread anyway ... for some reason, I thought you were going to run the Eheim externally to help with the temp. some as well as losing the Mag 7.

As far as the Chiller goes, I dont know how much flow you will lose to the chiller with the Eheim. Obviously it depends on the pump, chiller and plumbing. But how much flow do you want through the sump anyway? I use a chiller and am running close to 900 GPH through the sump because I wasnt going to run a dedicated pump for the chiller to put it on its own loop. The 900 GPH is about middle of the range for my chiller. My system is only a 90 gallon with 38 gallon sump. I would prefer to run a bit less flow through the sump but I believe the chiller will run less efficiently. Actually, a bit more flow would probably make the chiller happy but I am close to 10X through the sump so I have to make a compromise somewhere.

It's OK, I will catch you up. I can be confusing at times.

I did consider external pumps. I might save some heat running the mag or Eheim external, but the bulk of their cooling is internal with water. So not the same as running air cooled pump external. I nixed that idea just because I will need that waste heat in the winter. I didn't want to take all that heat and waste in in the air for winter.

I never said I was restricted to 600gph. Someone else did. But that is the number AGA gives out for it's overflow rating. I just didn't correct it.

Let's not rehash an old argument, but I don't consider a Herbie to be a siphon....... however, it isn't the 1" bulkhead that limits me....it's the actual overflow grate. It is only capable of passing so much water. I can actually move so much water to overflow the overflow. I would have to modify it to do more, and there just isn't a need. When I increased the size of my plumbing and did the Herbie..... I can move way more water than is necessary. So I throttled back on the pump a bit. The new Ehiem seems to move more so I cut it back more to get me where I was.


I really need to go to JBJ and see if I can find any info on flow restriction. Yes it gives me a max 790 gph, but 790 gph in will not be 790 gph out. I only have a 1/10 JBJ with 3/4" hose barbs so it will nullify much of my improvements. But, if I can move enough water to keep my skimmer and fuge happy, that is the way to go.

[DarG]

Originally posted by PowermanKW
It's OK, I will catch you up. I can be confusing at times.

I did consider external pumps. I might save some heat running the mag or Eheim external, but the bulk of their cooling is internal with water. So not the same as running air cooled pump external. I nixed that idea just because I will need that waste heat in the winter. I didn't want to take all that heat and waste in in the air for winter.

I never said I was restricted to 600gph. Someone else did. But that is the number AGA gives out for it's overflow rating. I just didn't correct it.

Let's not rehash an old argument, but I don't consider a Herbie to be a siphon....... however, it isn't the 1" bulkhead that limits me....it's the actual overflow grate. It is only capable of passing so much water. I can actually move so much water to overflow the overflow. I would have to modify it to do more, and there just isn't a need. When I increased the size of my plumbing and did the Herbie..... I can move way more water than is necessary. So I throttled back on the pump a bit. The new Ehiem seems to move more so I cut it back more to get me where I was.


I really need to go to JBJ and see if I can find any info on flow restriction. Yes it gives me a max 790 gph, but 790 gph in will not be 790 gph out. I only have a 1/10 JBJ with 3/4" hose barbs so it will nullify much of my improvements. But, if I can move enough water to keep my skimmer and fuge happy, that is the way to go.

I said 600 GPH because I thought you were using the 1" bulkhead with a standard overflow. I didnt realize otherwise until my last post.

Anyway ... now Im caught up.

I realize there is restriction going through the chiller. What I was trying to get at was that I didnt think that you would have to worry about exceeding the max flow through because of the drain restriction. This was before I realized you werent using a standard overflow drain. You probably still wont because of the restriction and the pump but I dont know what type of flow you want through the sump and what amount of restriction you would have through the chiller and how that would impact exactly on how much flow that you want through your sump. So thats obviously something you would have to work out to your own satisfaction.

How much you could actually push through the skimmer is very much related to the pump from both the flow and pressure capabilities as well as your plumbing, so I dont know how much JBJ can help you. But sounds like youll get it all worked out.

I dont own and Eheim pump but their reputation for being very quiet is well known. Im sure you will sort out the noisy eheim issue as well.

[PowermanKW]

Thanks for your help bud. Now I'm all caught up. I see what you are saying.

I have a BK mini 160. Before I had a EV-120 with Mag 7 so I was concerned about giving it enough flow..... I'm getting my new K2 today. Yeah for me! So the new K2 will do about twice what the 160 does.

So... overall.... I don't want to move water for the sake of moving water. I want my skimmer getting a good flow of tank water to draw from and I split my drain to supply the fuge. If I can accomplish that through the chiller cool, but for now I am a little uncertain how this will all play out.

It is finally hitting 90 here again today, so I will get a good idea where my temp will go. I expect to see 82 on my AC Jr. log. I am putting a fan on the sump tommorrow and that will tell me how effective that will be. I still want to ditch the chiller, but if it turns out borderline, I will just run it for insurance and be done with this whole project...... for now

[Poeticlydead]

Now that you two have spent a whole page figuring out how to plumb in the chiller, didn't we work it out on the first page that the chiller wouldn't be needed?

As my wife tells me time and again if it ain't broke don't fix/mod/tweak/change/adjust it

Your heat load should show significant reduction since you will be running just the 1262 and no additional pumps (no mag 7)
if you can keep the tank at 79-82 degrees you should be golden if not a fan may be needed for evaporative cooling (hey like you said a little humidity wouldn't hurt).

[DarG]

Originally posted by Poeticlydead
Now that you two have spent a whole page figuring out how to plumb in the chiller, didn't we work it out on the first page that the chiller wouldn't be needed?

As my wife tells me time and again if it ain't broke don't fix/mod/tweak/change/adjust it

Your heat load should show significant reduction since you will be running just the 1262 and no additional pumps (no mag 7)
if you can keep the tank at 79-82 degrees you should be golden if not a fan may be needed for evaporative cooling (hey like you said a little humidity wouldn't hurt).

Isnt this the discussion forum? No? Oh, my mistake, sorry.
Can someone please direct me the the RC Lighting, Filtration and Other Equipment forum?

The discussion wasnt limited to the chiller but regardless, I am so very sorry for annoying you !!! Really, I am.






Oh yeah, I almost forgot ...

[PowermanKW]

Well shiver me timbers! So I got a 6" clip on fan. I put it on my sump and was not sure it was going to do anything. There was some obstructions in the easiest place, and I was skeptical blowing air over my sump in a closed closet would be that effective.

Well it was a hot day, set the fan to come on at 80.3. Came on and the tank stayed at 80.2 all day. So I still don't want to evaporate more water in my closet, so I am going to go ahead and order a Azoo and put it on my tank which will be a more effective setup. I didn't want a fan on the tank, but it will be the best place for it.

So there you go. Chiller is out.

[DarG]

My tank would run as high as 86 - 87 in summer without chiller. It got hot in that small fish room. Chaning the venting, the lighting to an open aluminum frame rack and the fans from large round fans to two large crossflow fans dropped the max down to 79 - 80 on the hottest days, with the lighting on. I still use a chiller because I keep the tank at 78. But it only runs, at most, 2 cycles per day during hottest days. Usually 1X per day on most days that it does run. And when it is overcast or rains for a good part of the day, it doesnt run at all. Used to run all year long, multiple cycles per day. Now just during the hottest days of the hottest, maybe 4 months. It's amazing how effective fans can be. I technically dont even need the chiller.

[Poeticlydead]

Originally posted by DarG
Isnt this the discussion forum? No? Oh, my mistake, sorry.
Can someone please direct me the the RC Lighting, Filtration and Other Equipment forum?

The discussion wasnt limited to the chiller but regardless, I am so very sorry for annoying you !!! Really, I am.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot ...

Nope this is the NRA forum.
Down the hall to the left 3rd forum on the right.

Well as long as your sorry I guess we can let it slide this time.

asdfgsgsa on keyboard (greatest smiley ever)

[Poeticlydead]

Originally posted by PowermanKW
Well shiver me timbers! So I got a 6" clip on fan. I put it on my sump and was not sure it was going to do anything. There was some obstructions in the easiest place, and I was skeptical blowing air over my sump in a closed closet would be that effective.

Well it was a hot day, set the fan to come on at 80.3. Came on and the tank stayed at 80.2 all day. So I still don't want to evaporate more water in my closet, so I am going to go ahead and order a Azoo and put it on my tank which will be a more effective setup. I didn't want a fan on the tank, but it will be the best place for it.

So there you go. Chiller is out.

Grats on the temp control, glad this worked out for you.
I'm sure you can find some way to hide or blend the fan in.
I'd love to know how the fan on the tank works for you so post back when you can.

Down with the chillers long live the simple fan

[DarG]

Originally posted by Poeticlydead
Nope this is the NRA forum.
Down the hall to the left 3rd forum on the right.

The NRA forum? damn it !!! How in the hell did I end up in here? Big Brother is lurking here. @^&@!!!

[Poeticlydead]

ROFL

DarG I like your since of humor.

[DarG]

Originally posted by Poeticlydead
ROFL

DarG I like your since of humor.

Right back atcha

[PowermanKW]

Great, now I'm on a watch list.

[Poeticlydead]

Originally posted by PowermanKW
Great, now I'm on a watch list.

You too?

What a small world it is.

TIN FOIL HATS FOR EVERYONE!!!!!!