water change during cycle

[ihavtats29]

how many do water changes during a cycle and how many dont and why?

[Tadashi]

I would not do the WC because you are in the process of building the bacteria populations. The various populations need the various toxins as they feed on it (ammonia, nitrates, and nitrites). Since there is no live stock (or should not be) the high toxicity should not be an issue.

[Katmanblue]

agreed...seems counterintuitive, but what do I know?

[Toddrtrex]

I have always done water changes during the cycle --- I prefer to keep the ammonia spike as small as possible, I want to preserve as much of the life on the live rock that I paid good amount for. It has no long term effect on the carrying capacity of the live rock filtration.

Here is a good post by someone who knows a heck of a lot more then me. And the whole thread,
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...readid=1347567

Originally posted by greenbean36191
For a given bioload there's going to be a roughly set carrying capacity for the bacteria. Whether you do a waterchange or not, you're going to end up at the same place, you just change the path you take to get there and how long it takes.

If you don't do a WC you finish the initial cycle quicker but you overshoot the carrying capacity, so the population drops, overshooting it again. You end up setting up fluctuations in the population and prolonging the time it takes for the tank to "mature" or finally settle at the carrying capacity.

If you do WCs it takes a little bit longer for the bacteria to reach the carrying capacity, but there's very little overshoot so the tank is essentially mature as soon as the cycle is done. The fact that there's less ammonia also helps to preserve diversity on the liverock.

Here's a little graph to show what's going on.


Personally, I recommend doing WCs, but either way will work.

[Katmanblue]

Not to hijack this thread, but what about skimming then?

[Toddrtrex]

Originally posted by Katmanblue
Not to hijack this thread, but what about skimming then?

Personally I have always run the skimmer too, I pretty much treated the cycle like the tank was fully running (( though I don't dose and lights aren't really on ))

[noahm]

Good April 2009 Reefkeeping article on the myth of W/c during cycle.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2009-04/newbie/index.php

[Katmanblue]

Well, this site is all about learning and sharing. I'm sold

[sedor]

I never did a WC mostly because it didn't occur to me that I needed one. At the time I felt that by refreshing the water it would remove some of the ammonia that I wanted. Of course later on down the road I have learned it doesn't make much of a difference anyways.

[ihavtats29]

ive personaly have never done a water change during a cycle either , for the ammonia spike im not worried at all , ive restarted a 20 gal mini reef that was full of aptasia , all the rock was pulled and boiled so nothing is alive on the rock , the sand bed was removed and new sand was added , ive heard of people doing changes during the cycle , and was courious why you would do a water change, im currently in a spike right now the nitrates just made a small jump from 0 to 5.0 and ammonia from 1.0 to 2.5 in the last couple days

[Tadashi]

Learn something new everyday. I run a skimmer also.

How about cured LR in a new tank with a skimmer? Wouldn't the LR have a significant population of bacteria? When I get LR for my tank I will post toxin levels each day (before and after the WC).

[jason2459]

Currently cycling a new tank right now. I've been doing really small water changes daily and testing daily. Ammonia never went above 1 and just went back to zero today. I'm glad I did all those water changes too because I just found 2 hermits and a snail crawling around that came off of 25lbs of live rock I added at the beginning. Also, don't know if it was the water changes or not but I've gotten really good coraline growth as well on 50lbs of dry dead rock.

[Agu]

I have always done water changes during the cycle --- I prefer to keep the ammonia spike as small as possible, I want to preserve as much of the life on the live rock that I paid good amount for. It has no long term effect on the carrying capacity of the live rock filtration

X2

[ihavtats29]

after reading both im going to perform a water change weekly untill ammonia and nitrate read 0 , ill test the water before and after changes starting tomarrow and will post all readings here in this thread

[Tadashi]

As soon as I get my LR I was going to test the water and if it reached a certain threashold I would do a WC. Any recomendations for the threshold level for ammonia, nitrates, and nitrites?

[ihavtats29]

tank is 20 gal , water change 5 gal ,

before change

NO3 10 PPM
NO2 .5 PPM
AMM .5 PPM
PH 8.0

after 5 gal change

NO3 5 PPM
NO2 .2 PPM
AMM .5 PPM
PH 8.0

[rgulrich]

I consider live rock another live organism (in this instance, lots of them), and treat it as such. When my 200 lbs of fresh, uncured Tonga came in, from day one I conducted water changes and ran skimmers, carbon, and polyfilters to support it. I think the large amounts and variety of snails, chiton, starfish, anemone, zoas, and even corals that survived the “curing” process are testimony to treating the rock as best we can during the aquarium start-up period.
Cheers,
Ray

[ihavtats29]

todays readings are
no3 0
amm between .25 and nondetectable

ive been dosing microbacter7 from the start

[Tadashi]

I hope I am not getting a false cycle or something. Since adding the dead sand and LR my ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates have been 0. I have been feeding the tank like it has fish in it but still nothing. I wonder if my tests are bad. The skimmer is having a field day so I know there is crap in there.

I did a 15% WC anyways just in case tests are bad. They are those dip stick tests. I thought this would be easier than those ones I used to have (Seachem) with all the test tubes of water.

[Sisterlimonpot]

Originally posted by Toddrtrex
I have always done water changes during the cycle --- I prefer to keep the ammonia spike as small as possible, I want to preserve as much of the life on the live rock that I paid good amount for. It has no long term effect on the carrying capacity of the live rock filtration.

+3

[andrewk529]

Originally posted by Tadashi
I would not do the WC because you are in the process of building the bacteria populations. The various populations need the various toxins as they feed on it (ammonia, nitrates, and nitrites). Since there is no live stock (or should not be) the high toxicity should not be an issue.

the bacteria important to nutrient breakdown are benthic or live inside the rocks not in the water column..i changed my water during cycle weekly as you should during routine maintenance

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/20...wbie/index.php

[wetWolger]

No water change for me...My understanding is that the amount of bacteria that is benifical and suspended in the water is very small (at least compared to every other medium in the tank, ie sand, rock, etc). But without the coral life needing minerals, I just don't see enough benefit from doing one.

But I am a firm believer in running the skimmer from day one. The skimmer is the best tool a reefer has IMO.