ruby reef kick ich

[jenglish]

Originally posted by mhosts
Definitely not a long term solution. But none the less interesting. Could this be why long established systems (3-5+ years) and some reefers can say a valid statement such as "I haven't seen ich in my tank for years" (provided no livestock has been added in that time).

The shear number of ICH cysts that exist once it has hit generation 3 or more can be insane. If you were to properly QT everything by the book, in theory all you would need is 1 cyst to make it through and a month later get a large outbreak (No science to this logic just numbers)...

Most people having issues with ich tend to be newly set up tanks. When setting up your tank it is most vulnerable because you are constantly adding things (Slow or fast).

As the system gets more and more established, you tend to supply more corals than you buy and fish can live easily a decade in a proper environment. At this point in the systems life cycle you aren't really adding anything, this if the above point is true, one doesn't have any problems...

Again, no science here. Just numbers.

Thoughts?

It could be an explanation why established tanks seem to no longer have outbreaks. But many other plausible explanations exist such as experienced keepers who rarely stress the fish, well established immune responses or even theoretically adaptation of the crypto (it actually does not do a parasite good to kill it's host, whethor they would feel these selection forces in an aquarium is debateable). WHethor a well established tank known to have ich still has it or not is difficult to do without looking at gill scraping under a microscope or trying to stress out a fish to the point of a clinical infection. Neither of these things are worth doing to your fish for curiosity's sake

[mhosts]

Originally posted by jenglish
It could be an explanation why established tanks seem to no longer have outbreaks. But many other plausible explanations exist such as experienced keepers who rarely stress the fish, well established immune responses or even theoretically adaptation of the crypto (it actually does not do a parasite good to kill it's host, whethor they would feel these selection forces in an aquarium is debateable). WHethor a well established tank known to have ich still has it or not is difficult to do without looking at gill scraping under a microscope or trying to stress out a fish to the point of a clinical infection. Neither of these things are worth doing to your fish for curiosity's sake

+1 Agree totally.

I do think established reefers still do things that may stress fish. One thing I've noticed that stresses fish is algae scraping (with magnet or with razor to remove coraline). Although minor, posibility is still there for stress.

This would be something very interesting to do research on if one was to have the time... Any bio students doing a Masters need a subject for a thesis!?? lol.

I was reading the procedure for new additions on the liveaquaria.com website. Although this doesn't take to our model of an establised tank with no new livestock added.

It would be interesting to see if their post-quarantine system ever has outbreaks as it seems they do much more than the average reefer in terms of quarantine.

Here's the link: http://www.liveaquaria.com/general/g...al_pagesid=425

[ajolie30]

bump

[mhosts]

Originally posted by ajolie30
bump

Are you just waiting for someone to say: "yes" Ruby Reef works?

I dunno how you can still be on that after all of these posts. We know for a fact osmotic shock and copper are the only thing that will eliminate this parasite. Both of which will kill your reef.

IMO you'd have more of a chance at killing the parasite by raising the temp in ur reef to 90 degrees and hope nothing else dies in the process. Still a long shot and I don't think anyone else would do it.

Miracle cures don't exist. Who knows what the future holds, but right now there isn't anything that will get rid of it that is reef safe.

[jenglish]

raised temps will only stress out the fish and speed up the lifecycle of ich. The temps it would take to kill the ich would kill anything else in your tank as well.

Basically you can set up a QT and get rid of the ich or you can learn to live with it lurking in your tank. Pouring rid- ick, kick ich, ich attack, garlic, etc in your tank is the same as learning to live with it.

[mhosts]

Originally posted by jenglish
raised temps will only stress out the fish and speed up the lifecycle of ich. The temps it would take to kill the ich would kill anything else in your tank as well.

Basically you can set up a QT and get rid of the ich or you can learn to live with it lurking in your tank. Pouring rid- ick, kick ich, ich attack, garlic, etc in your tank is the same as learning to live with it.

In the article you cited:

6. MI is not very sensitive to temperature changes. That is, increasing the temperature does not significantly decrease the life cycle time. This is not true with Freshwater Ich (which is where this rumor of raising the temperature on a marine aquarium with MI comes from).

7. MI can live and reproduce in temperatures as low as 50F and as high as 90F. Thus temperatures that would kill MI would first kill or severely stress most tropical marine fishes.

Therefore, if nothing else dies in the process, 90 degrees could kill it. We just don't know how long of an exposure at 90 degrees you need.

[jenglish]

Originally posted by mhosts
In the article you cited:

6. MI is not very sensitive to temperature changes. That is, increasing the temperature does not significantly decrease the life cycle time. This is not true with Freshwater Ich (which is where this rumor of raising the temperature on a marine aquarium with MI comes from).

7. MI can live and reproduce in temperatures as low as 50F and as high as 90F. Thus temperatures that would kill MI would first kill or severely stress most tropical marine fishes.

Therefore, if nothing else dies in the process, 90 degrees could kill it. We just don't know how long of an exposure at 90 degrees you need.

I don't think very many fish and corals would survive an 90 degree temp... at least not for long. I don't know what the ceiling and floor effect is on temp change for MI, but I know the longest cycle was in coldwater temps. I would not use temp change as a way to try to kill ich.