Question regarding sump hang on.

Ktreece · 09/09/2009, 11:55 PM

So I am looking into a sump in the future for my 100 gallon. I do have a problem though, I already have my tank set up and really hate to break the thing down again to put an overflow in it. I was reading about hang on tanks and read where if the siphon breaks it's suction then your sump is going to get dumped in the floor. Well, is there anyway to protect yourself from the possibility of that happening without going with the overflow box in the tank?

snulma1 · 09/10/2009, 04:58 AM

There are a few ways.........

1. CPR overflows are meant to have an aqualifter pump attached, this pump will restart the suction once power has been resumed to the tank, some people even attach the venturi port on maxijets to it.

2. U-tubes are claimed to never lose siphon if power goes out, but you have to make sure its set up properly.

3. You should have a properly set up sump. One that will not overflow when the power goes out (In other words, it SHOULD break siphon to prevent your display tank from siphoning out completely) and also, one that does not have so much water in the return area as to cause the display to massively overflow.

HTH

IridescentLily · 09/10/2009, 09:34 AM

PVC connections to sump is how alot have their set up here. With the way it's normally done there is less risk of losing siphon and you sump flooding over.
A good place to read about the best connectivity for it I.e. What diameter PVC, how many elbows, which (water) pump you would need to get for pumping the water up and back to your tank after filtering in The sump is at this link,
from Melev at this
link http://www.melevsreef.com/what_sump.html
There are also tons of "build threads on the "general discussion" section which have pics of connecting together an overflow to sump setup. I'm going to be setting up my reef like that.
I've never had corals before only fish with rock.

Welcome and good luck. If you wish to know where something , just ask.

IslandCrow · 09/10/2009, 09:39 AM

snulma1 is spot on. Personally, I use a Lifereef overflow, and it's been flawless through multiple power losses. At least in theory (and so far, over two years in practice), it cannot lose its siphon if properly set up. . .short of physical damage or having a large animal climb into the tube and physically blocking it.

Which is why snulma's 3rd point is so important. The sump should be able to hold enough extra water so that if you lose power and your return pump starts, it can handle the extra water that will siphon but not get returned. The biggest culprit here is your return tube that takes water from your sump back into the display tank. It will immediately become a siphon if your return pump stops. There are two ways to keep this from becoming a problem (and you can certainly use both methods). The first is to drill a couple small holes in the return piping just below the water line in the display tank. These are commonly called siphon breaks, because they do just that. . .break the siphon. The other method is to make sure the return isn't so far below the water line in the display tank that it will siphon large amounts of water from the tank into the sump should the return pump fail. In short, if the return pump stops, water will back siphon from the main tank to the display tank until air enters the return tubing.

Next is to guard in the event that you do lose siphon. In this case, the return pump is going to keep pumping water into the main tank until it runs out of water to pump. The solution: make sure it runs out of water to pump fairly quickly, and before you flood your main tank. The way to do this is to section off a small area of your sump where you place your return pump. That way, it only has this limited amount of water available to it, should you lose siphon. You can use sheets of glass or acrylic siliconed in place to accomplish this. The only gotcha here is that this particular setup almost requires an auto top-off system, because the water level in this section will drop fairly rapidly as water evaporates from your system, potentially leaving your return pump without water to pump and causing it to overheat.

Properly set up, short of the sump or display tank physically breaking or a pipe springing a leak, you should be able to make it virtually impossible for your tank to flood. Before you leave your new tank/sump setup unattended for the first time, I highly recommend putting it through two tests. First, remove power to the return pump. The sump should not overflow. Second, purposely break the siphon to the overflow. The display tank should not overflow. If your system survives these two tests, you can leave your house virtually worry free.

Ktreece · 09/10/2009, 04:03 PM

Dang, it sounds like it would have been a great idea to put an overflow in the tank before hand.

IslandCrow · 09/13/2009, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Dang, it sounds like it would have been a great idea to put an overflow in the tank before hand

Yeah, that's pretty much always the best way to go, but you can certainly accomplish the same goal with a HOB overflow, and with a well designed overflow, you can still have nearly the reliability of one that's built in.

09/09/2009, 11:55 PM	#1
Ktreece Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Ft. Smith, Ar Posts: 155	Question regarding sump hang on. So I am looking into a sump in the future for my 100 gallon. I do have a problem though, I already have my tank set up and really hate to break the thing down again to put an overflow in it. I was reading about hang on tanks and read where if the siphon breaks it's suction then your sump is going to get dumped in the floor. Well, is there anyway to protect yourself from the possibility of that happening without going with the overflow box in the tank?

09/10/2009, 09:34 AM	#3
IridescentLily Editor-Reefkeeping mag Join Date: May 2008 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico Posts: 3,858 Blog Entries: 5	PVC connections to sump is how alot have their set up here. With the way it's normally done there is less risk of losing siphon and you sump flooding over. A good place to read about the best connectivity for it I.e. What diameter PVC, how many elbows, which (water) pump you would need to get for pumping the water up and back to your tank after filtering in The sump is at this link, from Melev at this link http://www.melevsreef.com/what_sump.html There are also tons of "build threads on the "general discussion" section which have pics of connecting together an overflow to sump setup. I'm going to be setting up my reef like that. I've never had corals before only fish with rock. Welcome and good luck. If you wish to know where something , just ask. __________________ ~April Editor-Reefkeeping Magazine Last edited by IridescentLily; 09/10/2009 at 09:40 AM.

09/10/2009, 09:39 AM	#4
IslandCrow Reef Monkey Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Rockledge, Fl Posts: 5,759	snulma1 is spot on. Personally, I use a Lifereef overflow, and it's been flawless through multiple power losses. At least in theory (and so far, over two years in practice), it cannot lose its siphon if properly set up. . .short of physical damage or having a large animal climb into the tube and physically blocking it. Which is why snulma's 3rd point is so important. The sump should be able to hold enough extra water so that if you lose power and your return pump starts, it can handle the extra water that will siphon but not get returned. The biggest culprit here is your return tube that takes water from your sump back into the display tank. It will immediately become a siphon if your return pump stops. There are two ways to keep this from becoming a problem (and you can certainly use both methods). The first is to drill a couple small holes in the return piping just below the water line in the display tank. These are commonly called siphon breaks, because they do just that. . .break the siphon. The other method is to make sure the return isn't so far below the water line in the display tank that it will siphon large amounts of water from the tank into the sump should the return pump fail. In short, if the return pump stops, water will back siphon from the main tank to the display tank until air enters the return tubing. Next is to guard in the event that you do lose siphon. In this case, the return pump is going to keep pumping water into the main tank until it runs out of water to pump. The solution: make sure it runs out of water to pump fairly quickly, and before you flood your main tank. The way to do this is to section off a small area of your sump where you place your return pump. That way, it only has this limited amount of water available to it, should you lose siphon. You can use sheets of glass or acrylic siliconed in place to accomplish this. The only gotcha here is that this particular setup almost requires an auto top-off system, because the water level in this section will drop fairly rapidly as water evaporates from your system, potentially leaving your return pump without water to pump and causing it to overheat. Properly set up, short of the sump or display tank physically breaking or a pipe springing a leak, you should be able to make it virtually impossible for your tank to flood. Before you leave your new tank/sump setup unattended for the first time, I highly recommend putting it through two tests. First, remove power to the return pump. The sump should not overflow. Second, purposely break the siphon to the overflow. The display tank should not overflow. If your system survives these two tests, you can leave your house virtually worry free. __________________ All opinions in the above message should be taken with 35 ppt salt. -Mike C. Current Tank Info: I have a reef screen saver on my phone, does that count?

09/10/2009, 04:58 AM	#2
snulma1 Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: New York, NY Posts: 2,281	There are a few ways......... 1. CPR overflows are meant to have an aqualifter pump attached, this pump will restart the suction once power has been resumed to the tank, some people even attach the venturi port on maxijets to it. 2. U-tubes are claimed to never lose siphon if power goes out, but you have to make sure its set up properly. 3. You should have a properly set up sump. One that will not overflow when the power goes out (In other words, it SHOULD break siphon to prevent your display tank from siphoning out completely) and also, one that does not have so much water in the return area as to cause the display to massively overflow. HTH

09/10/2009, 04:03 PM	#5
Ktreece Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Ft. Smith, Ar Posts: 155	Dang, it sounds like it would have been a great idea to put an overflow in the tank before hand.