High Nitrate/Nitrite

[wooden_reefer]

Originally Posted by Randy Holmes-Farley

Nitrificatiion is easy and should be perfect, ie no detectable nitrite or ammonia at all in an established tank.


I agree that it is nearly always true that they will be zero in an established tank, but it is not "necessary" for nitrite to be zero because, as I stated above, it is not toxic in marine systems. Too many people worry about it because they bring along knowledge from fresh water systems that does not properly translate to marine systems.

I frankly see no reason to ever measure nitrite unless you are just a chemistry lover, simply for the reason that it is rarely ever elevated, and is not a concern even if it is. More likely is that people will just get worked up over a false positive test result for nitrite.

This has more:

Nitrite and the Reef Aquarium
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/rhf/index.htm

Nitrite is toxic to fish, though less so than many had suggested long ago.

Precise degree of toxicity of nitrite is not the issue. The issue is that detectable nitrite is a flag that nitrification is not perfect. The conditions that allow perfection in nitification is very easy to achieve, so the aquarist should perfect it. Any imperfection in nitrification can be general enough to allow ammonia to linger, without the aquarist knowing.

Interesting is the use of some antibiotics such as kanamycin, neomycin and erythromycin. Many times I detected significant nitrite but little ammonia. The fish were fine. This is a special case, and perhaps the aquarist knows what is going on and need not be too concerned, as when such drug treatment ceases nitrification will be perfect again.

Nitrite is a useful flag to show the general health of nitrification, in addition to ammonia. Do not believe that nitrite can be reasonably detectable in an established tank, except with special reason, such as noted above.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Nitrite is toxic to fish

Like nitrate is perhaps. Not appreciably more so. Maybe less so. I show the data in the article above.

IMO, it is a waste of time to test.

[wooden_reefer]

Originally Posted by Randy Holmes-Farley

Nitrite is toxic to fish

Like nitrate is perhaps. Not appreciably more so. Maybe less so. I show the data in the article above.

IMO, it is a waste of time to test.

Even if nitrite is not toxic at all, it is STILL a flag that shows that nitrification is not perfect.

The question is if nitrite is detectable and ammonia is not in an established tank, should an aquarist investigate the reason. I believe the answer is yes.

Nitrite is an additional valid parameter of usefulness and interest.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I also cant agree that nitrite and nitrate aren't toxic. While ammonia can directly burn the gills of sensitive fish, nitrite will inhibit the transport of oxygen by the blood. Some of the chemists and biologists may disagree with me, but there are studies that support the theory that at the Ph of a salt tank, this does happen.

What data do you have on marine species in seawater suffering from nitrite at, say up to 10 ppm? 50 ppm?

Yes, it is toxic at hundreds of ppm.

[Frogmanx82]

Nitrite is an easy test on a 5 in 1 test strip. The strips aren't great, but they are a good quick indicator for some key items like nitrate, nitrite, kH, and pH. It is pointless to do a wet test for it, you'd be better off testing for ammonia.

+1 on wooden reefer's comments about the nitrogen cycle balance. If nitrites are detectable, something is wrong. If you have detectable nitrites and ammonia is zero, chances are you missed the ammonia spike and are just picking up the nitrite spike that follows. In which case the damage has already been done.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The question is if nitrite is detectable and ammonia is not in an established tank, should an aquarist investigate the reason. I believe the answer is yes.

Nitrite is an additional valid parameter of usefulness and interest.


Well, I guess I just disagree. I've had to deal with lots of people who worried about a few tenths of a ppm nitrite in a reef. In most cases it is probably testing error. When not, and assuming you could easily show it is not, what would you do anyway other than monitor it? IMO, it is taking away from time they might better spend on other issues.

[wooden_reefer]

Originally Posted by Randy Holmes-Farley

The question is if nitrite is detectable and ammonia is not in an established tank, should an aquarist investigate the reason. I believe the answer is yes.

Nitrite is an additional valid parameter of usefulness and interest.


Well, I guess I just disagree. I've had to deal with lots of people who worried about a few tenths of a ppm nitrite in a reef. In most cases it is probably testing error. When not, and assuming you could easily show it is not, what would you do anyway other than monitor it? IMO, it is taking away from time they might better spend on other issues.

I don't believe it is testing error if with the same procedure and test kit you detect none with water you know has none, or you simply has detected none with some other water.

Persistent 0.5 ppm nitrite is a concern.

What can you do? Investigate the setup. check for clogs, dead livestock.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Aside from newly cycling tanks, I've never seen a tank with persistent elevated nitrite that wasn't testing error.
I've investigated many claimed cases and found testing error was common.

You have seen cases that had real persistent nitrite?

[wooden_reefer]

Talking about waste of time in testing:

In a FO tank, I can usually just count the fish and just look at the flow of water and make sure that there is no clog. I don't test at all as a routine measure. I only test for nitrite in an establish FO tank when there is a reason to do so, such as a sudden increase in bioload.

In a reef tank, the livestock is so varied and you cannot really count them all. Dead livestock can be a problem. I do test routinely for nitrite and ammonia in a reef tank.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I do test routinely for nitrite and ammonia in a reef tank.

That's fairly unusual. How often do you detect ammonia above, say, 0.1 ppm?

[wooden_reefer]

Originally Posted by Randy Holmes-Farley

Aside from newly cycling tanks, I've never seen a tank with persistent elevated nitrite that wasn't testing error.
I've investigated many claimed cases and found testing error was common.

You have seen cases that had real persistent nitrite?

I have never tested anything but zero nitrite after cycling. This is not the point. When cycling, you are very sure that your setup is correct and, if you cycle with recently collected LR, what has died has died. You has covered all uncertainty.

In a reef tank things are different. There are more variables. Dying livestock may not be discovered.

Testing is a feedback. It is not logical to use reason or expectation to replace feedback. This is why you test in addition to preempting and preventing.

[wooden_reefer]

Originally Posted by Randy Holmes-Farley

I do test routinely for nitrite and ammonia in a reef tank.

That's fairly unusual. How often do you detect ammonia above, say, 0.1 ppm?

Never yet

You don't know for sure; this is why you test.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Ok.

[Pimps]

Originally Posted by Randy Holmes-Farley

Nitrificatiion is easy and should be perfect, ie no detectable nitrite or ammonia at all in an established tank.


I agree that it is nearly always true that they will be zero in an established tank, but it is not "necessary" for nitrite to be zero because, as I stated above, it is not toxic in marine systems. Too many people worry about it because they bring along knowledge from fresh water systems that does not properly translate to marine systems.

I frankly see no reason to ever measure nitrite unless you are just a chemistry lover, simply for the reason that it is rarely ever elevated, and is not a concern even if it is. More likely is that people will just get worked up over a false positive test result for nitrite.

This has more:

Nitrite and the Reef Aquarium
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/rhf/index.htm

Great article!

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks.

Happy reefing!