They call me the snail killer...

Burkette · 11/06/2009, 08:19 PM

j/k. But I am having trouble keeping my astrias and turbos alive. They usually die within a day or two. they start looking like they are falling out of their shells, then fall off the glass, then within a day, they are dead. I had read something about cooler water, but my water is at 78 degrees, and my salinity is at 1.023. I'm lost here guys, and looking for help. Thanks in advance.

drywallninja · 11/06/2009, 08:31 PM

How old is your tank?Have you ever used any kind of copper based meds in your tank?Whats your water parameters?

Flipper62 · 11/06/2009, 08:36 PM

How do you acclimate the snails ?

A few killers are how you acclimate them, Salinity changes, Temp changes.

The salinity and temp changes can kill snails right from the start.

T Man · 11/07/2009, 12:56 AM

Acclimate the snails to the tank, they are very sensitive to poor water quality, especially PH. T

Flipper62 · 11/07/2009, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T Man

acclimate

??? whats your question...experience..... ??

Your post is confusing to what may mean.

T Man · 11/07/2009, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flipper62

Your post is confusing to what may mean.

Acclimation is not confusing to me, as for experience......if you gotta ask just check my picture folders in my profile.

Burkette · 11/07/2009, 02:43 AM

Ok, to answer all the questions...
1) my tank itself it a few years old. It is about 2 months new to me. It was completely dry for about 2 months before I started it brand new. Everything has cylced, and my fish are fine. No copper has been used in the tank as far back as I can tell (5 years, and it has been dry twice in that time)
2)When I acclimate the snails, I have tried bringing them home both wet and moist(was told by one LFS that wet there is too much ammonia in water, so take them home damp), drip them for about an hour, then float them for about 30 min. Then place on glass one at a time.

Trates are 0ppm, trites are 0 ppm, ammonia is 0ppm, and PH is about an 8. Water temp is between 76 and 80(80 being at midday)

Mouse · 11/07/2009, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burkette

(was told by one LFS that wet there is too much ammonia in water, so take them home damp)

This one should go into the LFS Quotes hall of fame.

How can this be? Perhaps im just tired, but I cannot think of a way for this to be true.

Back on topic, are there any other types of snails in the tank? any other crabs, shrimp etc?

Burkette · 11/07/2009, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mouse

This one should go into the LFS Quotes hall of fame.

How can this be? Perhaps im just tired, but I cannot think of a way for this to be true.

Back on topic, are there any other types of snails in the tank? any other crabs, shrimp etc?

Sorry, I should have been more clear. The LFS said that when the snails were in the bag, on the way home, that they would continue to excrete waste, which would in turn cause the ammonia to raise to an unacceptable level. It's about a 30 minute drive home, and I usually go to this LFS becasue it's a reputable LFS in my area. Having said that... No, there are no other snails in the tank. THey all die within a day. Yes, there are crabs. I have about 12 hermits, ranging in size, that are all doing excellent. As a matter of fact, I haven't lost one yet. No shrimp as of yet. One thing to note, I bought a calcuim test today, and my calcium is around 320ppm. I am using a Kent calcuim product to raise calcum at this time, tring to get it around 400ppm.

locust · 11/08/2009, 12:01 AM

I had the same problem when i started. I would suggest it is definitely the way you acclimate them. I know it's hard to believe but these snails are incredibly sensitive, much more so than fish. It can be a painstaking process but here is how i acclimate them. Make sure the LFS gives you a decent amount of water in the bag when you buy the snails. Float the bag in the tank for about 15 minutes, then add half a glass of tank water to the bag. Continue to add half a glass of tank water to the bag every 5 minutes until the bag is almost full. Then remove the bag from the tank and ditch about half of the water. Float the bag in the tank again and continue to add tank water every 5 minutes. Then when the bag is almost full again ditch the water and place the snails in the tank. Do not put any of the bag water back into the tank. This whole process usually takes me about 2 hours!

It's a hell of a lot of effort just for some snails. I am currently running my tank snail-less and i don't have any algae blooms. The snails won't eat the nasty hair algae varieties anyway. In my opinion snails and hermits are really not worth the effort.

bekindtoyurbuds · 11/08/2009, 12:50 AM

could it be the salinity? i have a few reef tanks, and my salinity on both is 1.025 , I never drip aclimate my snails at all, I just float the bag and for 20-30 min to match the temp tank and then pull the snails and drop them in the water. I've never had a problem with losing snails. (thats with 30 snails bought five at a time, over the last few years)

try bringing the salinity up slowly, instead of adding freshwater for top offs, use salt water instead, until your salinity is up.

and next time you buy some snails have them put water in the bag, I doubt the amon levels will rise that quickly, if at all in 30 minutes.

Hades200082 · 11/08/2009, 01:51 AM

I bought some snails home for the first time about 6 weeks ago.

I was told to acclimatise them using a piece of airline as a syphon from the tank and tie a knot in it so it drips 1 drip per second / 1 drip per 2 seconds (yes that slow!) and to leave them in the bag acclimatising like this for 2-4 hours.

Hope this helps

Burkette · 11/08/2009, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bekindtoyurbuds

could it be the salinity? i have a few reef tanks, and my salinity on both is 1.025 , I never drip aclimate my snails at all, I just float the bag and for 20-30 min to match the temp tank and then pull the snails and drop them in the water. I've never had a problem with losing snails. (thats with 30 snails bought five at a time, over the last few years)

try bringing the salinity up slowly, instead of adding freshwater for top offs, use salt water instead, until your salinity is up.

and next time you buy some snails have them put water in the bag, I doubt the amon levels will rise that quickly, if at all in 30 minutes.

My salinity is at 1.024 right now. Originally, i had it at 1.019-1.020, and was told that that was too low for snails, so I raised it. Also, I have broght the snails home wet, and they dies as well. Regardless, 'll be brining them home wet next time.

WestTxReefer · 11/08/2009, 10:23 AM

ok the whole " wet, damp" thing is a load of you know what. I order snails from liveaquaria.com all the time and theyre in a bag for the better part of 30 hours or so, for delivery. Have them put water in the bag just as you would with a fish or coral! That is super important. When you aclimate them, and some may disagree with me and thats fine, you dont need to go to extensive measures. Take the bag and float it for about 20-30 minutes to get the temp right, then either use the drip method with water from your tank, or i use a saringe and shoot water in every 4-5 miutes and i do this for about half an hour. Usually about 5ml at a time, and then i open the bag up, pour 1/2 a cup of tank water in the bag, let it set for 10 minutes or so, then dump them in the tank, usually putting them on a piece of live rock or something of that nature.

Your ph, you said, was at 8.0? That is a little low for my liking but not too far off based as to damage anything. I like to try and keep mine in the 8.2-8.3 range, i havent lost a snail yet, unless he gets over turned or something and cant get back up, but that has nothing to do with water quality.

WTR

Burkette · 11/08/2009, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WestTxReefer

ok the whole " wet, damp" thing is a load of you know what. I order snails from liveaquaria.com all the time and theyre in a bag for the better part of 30 hours or so, for delivery. Have them put water in the bag just as you would with a fish or coral! That is super important. When you aclimate them, and some may disagree with me and thats fine, you dont need to go to extensive measures. Take the bag and float it for about 20-30 minutes to get the temp right, then either use the drip method with water from your tank, or i use a saringe and shoot water in every 4-5 miutes and i do this for about half an hour. Usually about 5ml at a time, and then i open the bag up, pour 1/2 a cup of tank water in the bag, let it set for 10 minutes or so, then dump them in the tank, usually putting them on a piece of live rock or something of that nature.

Your ph, you said, was at 8.0? That is a little low for my liking but not too far off based as to damage anything. I like to try and keep mine in the 8.2-8.3 range, i havent lost a snail yet, unless he gets over turned or something and cant get back up, but that has nothing to do with water quality.

WTR

That sounds like very close to what I actually do when I get them, except I use the drip method. What is a safe way to raise the ph? I didn't know if there was another method besides an additive, a more "natural" way to raise ph. THanks!

NirvanaFan · 11/08/2009, 04:22 PM

Wet or damp doesn't matter. They can easily survive 30 minutes being out of the water. In fact, many online retailers ship them this way. You just have to be a little more careful of temperature swings. They close up and should survive 30 minutes with no problem.

Like others have said, try raising your salinity. Could you do tests for alkalinity? A pH of 8 is perfectly fine. A large swing of pH from day to night would be more of a problem.

dudley moray · 11/08/2009, 05:06 PM

i have never in my almost 25 years heard snails are sensitive and need acclimating i take mine out of the bag and throw them in the tank and a couple of years later the breed weird eh i think your problem is hungry hermits ( not a board game) they're favourite food is snail lose the hermits or at least half of them

Flavordsm · 11/08/2009, 06:52 PM

pH of 8 when you test it I'm assuming during the day. Just think of what your pH is during the early morning when it is at its lowest. It would be mid to high 7's. Depending on how much algae is resperating. I like to keep my pH around 8.2-8.4 for my inverts.

Burkette · 11/08/2009, 07:53 PM

so then my question stands...How do I safetly raise the ph? Do I use a chemical ph raiser? i.e. Perfect PH? Or can I do this naturally? I'm willing to give anything a try.

NirvanaFan · 11/08/2009, 09:13 PM

what is your Alk at? A constant pH of 8 is perfectly fine. Have you ever tested your pH at like 7 or so in the morning (or whenever your lights have been off for 7 hours or so)?

aquadonkey · 11/08/2009, 09:47 PM

Hi everyone - this is not completely relevant here, but can anyone point me to a source where I can learn more about snail breeds and care? I'm going to start with my CUC tomorrow (a couple snails first) and I want to be prepared!

Burkette · 11/08/2009, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NirvanaFan

what is your Alk at? A constant pH of 8 is perfectly fine. Have you ever tested your pH at like 7 or so in the morning (or whenever your lights have been off for 7 hours or so)?

I usually test my pH at aroune 11 or so. If I test it at 7 and its very low (7.0 or so) what is my plan of action?

NirvanaFan · 11/08/2009, 10:48 PM

Do you have a sump or refugium? Putting in a macroalgae like chaetomorpha on a reverse lighting schedule from the main display can help offset any pH swings. Don't worry until you get that pH reading though.

Just out of curiosity, where on the glass are you putting them? I've heard it is good to stick them on the glass at the water line.

Burkette · 11/09/2009, 01:48 AM

no fuge, but I do have a sump...not a whole lot of room for cheatomorpha though. THe skimmer and return piping take up most of it. And I just usually put them wherever I can on the glass, not necessarily by the waterline. I'll try that tomorrow though. Just tested my calcuim level yesterday, and it was quite low. It's around 420ppm now, so I'm going to give 1 mexican turbo a try, and see if he lives. I'm testing pH tomorrow morning at 7...I'll keep you guys posted, and thanks for all the great ideas!.

11/06/2009, 08:19 PM	#1
Burkette Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 90	They call me the snail killer... j/k. But I am having trouble keeping my astrias and turbos alive. They usually die within a day or two. they start looking like they are falling out of their shells, then fall off the glass, then within a day, they are dead. I had read something about cooler water, but my water is at 78 degrees, and my salinity is at 1.023. I'm lost here guys, and looking for help. Thanks in advance.

11/06/2009, 08:36 PM	#3
Flipper62 Premium Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Naperville, Il. Business Owner, President & CEO Posts: 3,045	How do you acclimate the snails ? A few killers are how you acclimate them, Salinity changes, Temp changes. The salinity and temp changes can kill snails right from the start. __________________ If todays automobile had followed the same development as the computer, A Rolls Royce would cost $100.00. It would get a million miles per gallon, but it would explode once a year killing everyone inside." Current Tanks... 90 gal Reef... My awesome Office BioCube....( 180 was on hold ..no time ) ... The 180 gal has been sold...Yay..yay..yay. Hobby Experience: 19 years Reef...22 years FW

11/07/2009, 12:56 AM	#4
T Man ~PPPPPPP~ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Emerald City Posts: 1,045	Acclimate the snails to the tank, they are very sensitive to poor water quality, especially PH. T __________________ He that can have patience can have what he will. ~ Benjamin Franklin Current Tank Info: click the "TzFuture" folder in my profile Last edited by T Man; 11/07/2009 at 01:12 AM. Reason: to further explain myself

11/08/2009, 10:23 AM	#14
WestTxReefer Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: odessa, Tx Posts: 221	ok the whole " wet, damp" thing is a load of you know what. I order snails from liveaquaria.com all the time and theyre in a bag for the better part of 30 hours or so, for delivery. Have them put water in the bag just as you would with a fish or coral! That is super important. When you aclimate them, and some may disagree with me and thats fine, you dont need to go to extensive measures. Take the bag and float it for about 20-30 minutes to get the temp right, then either use the drip method with water from your tank, or i use a saringe and shoot water in every 4-5 miutes and i do this for about half an hour. Usually about 5ml at a time, and then i open the bag up, pour 1/2 a cup of tank water in the bag, let it set for 10 minutes or so, then dump them in the tank, usually putting them on a piece of live rock or something of that nature. Your ph, you said, was at 8.0? That is a little low for my liking but not too far off based as to damage anything. I like to try and keep mine in the 8.2-8.3 range, i havent lost a snail yet, unless he gets over turned or something and cant get back up, but that has nothing to do with water quality. WTR __________________ tacos? did someone say tacos? Current Tank Info: 150 DD Marineland, upcoming shallow reef tank

11/08/2009, 05:06 PM	#17
dudley moray sisternofuselessknowledge Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: orillia ontario Posts: 795	i have never in my almost 25 years heard snails are sensitive and need acclimating i take mine out of the bag and throw them in the tank and a couple of years later the breed weird eh i think your problem is hungry hermits ( not a board game) they're favourite food is snail lose the hermits or at least half of them __________________ We urge hobbyists to develop a good 'BS' detector that will allow you to question information presented to you without any experimental evidence to support it. chris Current Tank Info: 90 gal south pacific biotope 40 gal sump/fuge ,65 gal rebuilding

11/06/2009, 08:31 PM	#2
drywallninja Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Rocklin CA Posts: 93	How old is your tank?Have you ever used any kind of copper based meds in your tank?Whats your water parameters?

11/07/2009, 02:43 AM	#7
Burkette Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 90	Ok, to answer all the questions... 1) my tank itself it a few years old. It is about 2 months new to me. It was completely dry for about 2 months before I started it brand new. Everything has cylced, and my fish are fine. No copper has been used in the tank as far back as I can tell (5 years, and it has been dry twice in that time) 2)When I acclimate the snails, I have tried bringing them home both wet and moist(was told by one LFS that wet there is too much ammonia in water, so take them home damp), drip them for about an hour, then float them for about 30 min. Then place on glass one at a time. Trates are 0ppm, trites are 0 ppm, ammonia is 0ppm, and PH is about an 8. Water temp is between 76 and 80(80 being at midday)

11/08/2009, 12:01 AM	#10
locust Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 106	I had the same problem when i started. I would suggest it is definitely the way you acclimate them. I know it's hard to believe but these snails are incredibly sensitive, much more so than fish. It can be a painstaking process but here is how i acclimate them. Make sure the LFS gives you a decent amount of water in the bag when you buy the snails. Float the bag in the tank for about 15 minutes, then add half a glass of tank water to the bag. Continue to add half a glass of tank water to the bag every 5 minutes until the bag is almost full. Then remove the bag from the tank and ditch about half of the water. Float the bag in the tank again and continue to add tank water every 5 minutes. Then when the bag is almost full again ditch the water and place the snails in the tank. Do not put any of the bag water back into the tank. This whole process usually takes me about 2 hours! It's a hell of a lot of effort just for some snails. I am currently running my tank snail-less and i don't have any algae blooms. The snails won't eat the nasty hair algae varieties anyway. In my opinion snails and hermits are really not worth the effort.

11/08/2009, 12:50 AM	#11
bekindtoyurbuds Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Riverside Ca Posts: 374	could it be the salinity? i have a few reef tanks, and my salinity on both is 1.025 , I never drip aclimate my snails at all, I just float the bag and for 20-30 min to match the temp tank and then pull the snails and drop them in the water. I've never had a problem with losing snails. (thats with 30 snails bought five at a time, over the last few years) try bringing the salinity up slowly, instead of adding freshwater for top offs, use salt water instead, until your salinity is up. and next time you buy some snails have them put water in the bag, I doubt the amon levels will rise that quickly, if at all in 30 minutes.

11/08/2009, 01:51 AM	#12
Hades200082 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 24	I bought some snails home for the first time about 6 weeks ago. I was told to acclimatise them using a piece of airline as a syphon from the tank and tie a knot in it so it drips 1 drip per second / 1 drip per 2 seconds (yes that slow!) and to leave them in the bag acclimatising like this for 2-4 hours. Hope this helps

11/08/2009, 04:22 PM	#16
NirvanaFan Reef Ninja Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 4,280	Wet or damp doesn't matter. They can easily survive 30 minutes being out of the water. In fact, many online retailers ship them this way. You just have to be a little more careful of temperature swings. They close up and should survive 30 minutes with no problem. Like others have said, try raising your salinity. Could you do tests for alkalinity? A pH of 8 is perfectly fine. A large swing of pH from day to night would be more of a problem.

11/08/2009, 06:52 PM	#18
Flavordsm Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 230	pH of 8 when you test it I'm assuming during the day. Just think of what your pH is during the early morning when it is at its lowest. It would be mid to high 7's. Depending on how much algae is resperating. I like to keep my pH around 8.2-8.4 for my inverts.

11/08/2009, 07:53 PM	#19
Burkette Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 90	so then my question stands...How do I safetly raise the ph? Do I use a chemical ph raiser? i.e. Perfect PH? Or can I do this naturally? I'm willing to give anything a try.

11/08/2009, 09:13 PM	#20
NirvanaFan Reef Ninja Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 4,280	what is your Alk at? A constant pH of 8 is perfectly fine. Have you ever tested your pH at like 7 or so in the morning (or whenever your lights have been off for 7 hours or so)?

11/08/2009, 09:47 PM	#21
aquadonkey Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 1,253	Hi everyone - this is not completely relevant here, but can anyone point me to a source where I can learn more about snail breeds and care? I'm going to start with my CUC tomorrow (a couple snails first) and I want to be prepared!

11/08/2009, 10:48 PM	#23
NirvanaFan Reef Ninja Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 4,280	Do you have a sump or refugium? Putting in a macroalgae like chaetomorpha on a reverse lighting schedule from the main display can help offset any pH swings. Don't worry until you get that pH reading though. Just out of curiosity, where on the glass are you putting them? I've heard it is good to stick them on the glass at the water line.

11/09/2009, 01:48 AM	#24
Burkette Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 90	no fuge, but I do have a sump...not a whole lot of room for cheatomorpha though. THe skimmer and return piping take up most of it. And I just usually put them wherever I can on the glass, not necessarily by the waterline. I'll try that tomorrow though. Just tested my calcuim level yesterday, and it was quite low. It's around 420ppm now, so I'm going to give 1 mexican turbo a try, and see if he lives. I'm testing pH tomorrow morning at 7...I'll keep you guys posted, and thanks for all the great ideas!.