Mysterious fish die off - lost 11 fish so far!

[Ben34105]

Hello Everyone,

I'm new to the game and am in need of some help. I have a 150g tank with 2" live sand and 200lbs of live rock. It's been set up for 9 weeks now. I have a Fluval FX5 with dual eductors on the output. It has 2 chambers of bio balls and the last chamber has floss, chemi pure and a 100 micron filter. I'm also running a protein skimmer that's rated for a 220g tank. All of the water going in the tank was ran through a filter. The water is tested weekly at the LFS and has always been perfect.

After 3 weeks of running with just the sand and rock the water cleared and we added 2 clown fish. After another week the clowns were doing fine, the water tested good so we started stocking it every week by adding a few fish.

Then one day the tank started to turn a cloudy white. It got so cloudy you could not see the back of the tank. I went to the LFS and the water tested fine. We decided to run a poly filter. I ended up running 2 poly filter cycles and they were both a yellow/ brown. The water did not clear and the fish started to die.

The fish would lay on the bottom of the tank gasping and within a few hours would die. The LFS wanted me to freeze the dead fish and bring them in to see if they could tell why they died. None of the fish showed visible signs of injury or disease.

Next I had an ich break out. We set up a QT tank and started treatment with Rid Ich.

Our next plan of attack was to try a clarifier. We used enough for 1,000 gallons and the water went clear. But the fish are still dying!

What is going on with my tank? I've lost 11 fish and some of them were a little pricey! Right now the LFS has me doing a 100% water change to see if that helps. The water has never tested anything but perfect.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated!

[Tylt33]

Leave your tank without fish. If you've had an ich outbreak in a new tank, it's going to be a death sentence for 95% of your fish. I went through it the hard way, and had to leave my tank fallow for 6 weeks as a result. Anything you put in now is gonna die, I promise.

Ditch the bioballs, floss, and chemi pure. You're putting a lot of chemicals in your tank, that makes me really nervous. When your LFS is testing your water, are they using strips or chemicals? You should really consider investing in quality tests of your own. White in the water could be calcium precipitation... or chemi pure gone amiss.

Sounds like you likely have multiple culprits in your deaths, and it's going to take some time to sort them out. What is your tank temp? Specific gravity?

[Ben34105]

The LFS uses chemicals for their test and I just bought a reef master test kit for myself. I'm not sure what my specific gravity is, but they use a refractometer and always say it's good. The temp goes between 77.5 to 79 after the lights being on 8 hours.

[jenjen]

I'd be interested to know your SG & ammonia for starters. Also, what circulation do you have in your tank?

[kelleyga36]

What is considered perfect water?

[themastr]

IMO Perfect water for reef is O TDS with a r/o unit and the best salt mix you can afford. You want 0 total dissolved solids in the water so you know that you aren't putting anything into your tank but only what the salt bucket indicates. (hoping they are accurate) LOL

erick

[WharfRat]

SG 1.021 - 1.026 dpending on what you keep. Temp 77 - 83 dpending on what you keep. Theres a bunch of others too. Also..see stiky #4 loads of information there.

[Elysia]

Hi Ben,

Sorry to hear about your rough time. It sounds as though (IMO) your tank had a bacterial bloom, which is why you saw the milky water. That bacteria then used all the available oxygen in the water, which eventually suffocated your fish. You don't mention your location or your experience, or any details about your "live" rock. Was the live rock that you purchased already cured? Any live rock die off in the tank could have caused problems. Did you feed the tank during the three weeks that it had live rock but no fish? To prepare the good bacteria to handle your eventual fish load, you need to feed the tank an amount equivalent to (or close to) the amount you will eventually feed to your stocked tank -- and it takes time for this bacteria to develop. Most likely, your tank's system was simply immature and could not handle 11 fish in only 9 weeks. Try reading about cycling marine tanks and take it a bit slower next time.

[Khai]

I agree that you most likely experienced a bacterial bloom. You need to remember that your entire system is dependent upon cells that are processing the waste produced by your fish and verts. Taking it slow and steady will allow the bacterial population to reach a steady state and prevent the accumulation of a single byproduct that can lead to the bloom of a single population.

It sounds like your fish died from suffocation which is an awful way for any living creature to die.

I would also treat the advice of your LFS with a grain of salt from here on out and start being responsible for the health and life of your fish...if you don't even know what the SG of a tank should be...you haven't done enough research to take care of your tank. There is a load of information in this forum, please take a look!

In the end, I'm sorry that you lost so many fish.

[Shane Hoffman]

If you purchased one of those off the shelf "water clarifier" thats a liquid in a bottle read the label close. Some of those clarifiers if over dosed or even if dosed correct will wipe out a tank. I think they make the ammonia sky rocket some how. There should be a warnining on the clarifier bottle. You added fish way to fast also. 11 fish is to many only 4 or 5 weeks after cycleing. It may have been ok if they were very small fish, but any fish especially large fish greatly increase bio load in a new tank. You need to add a fish wait a couple of weeks for your tanks ability to break down waste to catch up then add another fish wait a couple weeks etc......

As far as the ich I would remove all fish if any are left. Leave the tank empty for 8 weeks to allow the ich to die. Then SLOWLY start re introducing fish. Either be patient now or pay later........QT is a must. Good luck.

[Shane Hoffman]

I forgot about your fluval. Either take it offline or remove all media from it and use it for carbon only. All its good for is creating flow and a place to put carbon. If you keep filter pads and bioballs in it.....it wont be long before your nitrates skyrocket. It catches a ton of dead organinc matter and traps it while it rots. All your doing is pumping your water through a a bucket full of dead matter and dragging the nitrates back into your tank. It is an amazing filter that creates alot of flow. I have one but use it as I mentioned above. You can use it if you want with filter pads and floss in it if, and only if you are willing to open it up every 5 to 7 days and rinse the fluval filters very good and replace any filter media thats not rinseable. Regardless of what you decide to do remove the bio balls. If your LFS is telling you to use bioballs they are not properly educated. You have 200lbs of live rock so you have no need for those bio balls

[Shane Hoffman]

Do you have a sump?

[HUNGER]

you mite have added to many fish to quick

[Iskandar]

Most likely bacterial bloom => low oxygen => hypoxia => fish deaths by suffocation.
Bacterial blooms occur most often amid overfeeding and bioload overloading. I bet you had triggers and/or tangs.
And Yes, bioballs should be avoided.
We all make mistakes, just take it slow...

[wooden_reefer]

Originally Posted by Ben34105

Hello Everyone,

I'm new to the game and am in need of some help. I have a 150g tank with 2" live sand and 200lbs of live rock. It's been set up for 9 weeks now. I have a Fluval FX5 with dual eductors on the output. It has 2 chambers of bio balls and the last chamber has floss, chemi pure and a 100 micron filter. I'm also running a protein skimmer that's rated for a 220g tank. All of the water going in the tank was ran through a filter. The water is tested weekly at the LFS and has always been perfect.

After 3 weeks of running with just the sand and rock the water cleared and we added 2 clown fish. After another week the clowns were doing fine, the water tested good so we started stocking it every week by adding a few fish.

Then one day the tank started to turn a cloudy white. It got so cloudy you could not see the back of the tank. I went to the LFS and the water tested fine. We decided to run a poly filter. I ended up running 2 poly filter cycles and they were both a yellow/ brown. The water did not clear and the fish started to die.

The fish would lay on the bottom of the tank gasping and within a few hours would die. The LFS wanted me to freeze the dead fish and bring them in to see if they could tell why they died. None of the fish showed visible signs of injury or disease.

Next I had an ich break out. We set up a QT tank and started treatment with Rid Ich.

Our next plan of attack was to try a clarifier. We used enough for 1,000 gallons and the water went clear. But the fish are still dying!

What is going on with my tank? I've lost 11 fish and some of them were a little pricey! Right now the LFS has me doing a 100% water change to see if that helps. The water has never tested anything but perfect.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated!

I am sorry to tell you that there is not much of an insight to speak of, since you have done everything wrong.

1. You should never have used live fish to cycle. So in a 150 gal with just a couple of clown fish you cannot detect significant ammonia after a week. What is the conclusion? Very dilute ammonia.

2. You should have cycled for the tanks in advance using bacteria seed and ammonia wastes

3. I said tanks, plural, for both the display tank DT and the quarantine tank QT. You should have cycled very well for both the QT and the DT.

4. You likely will not survive the ich outbreak that is taking place now. It is unlikely that you can cure most fish now. Plan for the future.

5. For future reference, polyfilter is a chemcial filter that will remove drugs that are used.

I think your LFS has given you no guidance at all.

[patsfan1130]

You did way too much way too fast unfortunately. Sorry for your losses but IMO...death was ineveitable. I would seriously sonsider a new LFS also. Or simply stick to Reef Central and read, read, read.

[sassyfrassy]

I'm new to the game and am in need of some help. I have a 150g tank with 2" live sand and 200lbs of live rock. It's been set up for 9 weeks now. I have a Fluval FX5 with dual eductors on the output. It has 2 chambers of bio balls and the last chamber has floss, chemi pure and a 100 micron filter. I'm also running a protein skimmer that's rated for a 220g tank. All of the water going in the tank was ran through a filter. The water is tested weekly at the LFS and has always been perfect.

I probably shouldn't be adding my 2 cents worth, because I'm a newby too - my 65g tank's only been set-up for a month. But as excited & impatient as I am, I thoroughly expect to have my tank, refugium, sump and quarantine set-up and running for at least 4mo. before adding any livestock. Then I will slowly add fish, and eventually add corals. Chad left his tank barren of any livestock for a year! It is hard I know to patiently wait when you are so excited, but this is not a hobby you can rush w/o encountering disaster. I've decided to think about it sorta as a garden and I am just now planting the seeds (bacteria) and I will have to patiently wait for them to grow and mature before I'll get to enjoy the beautiful flowers. But the time is not wasted, because I am reading everything I can on RC and asking a zillion questions (they're probably tired of my many - some dumb - questions!). But that's the only way I can learn what I need to know to be a good "parent" and responsible keeper of this little piece of ocean I want to have. I don't mean to judge, but sounds like your LFS wanted to make money selling fish! The people here on RC aren't trying to sell you something when they give advice, and it based on their years of experience and having made some of the same mistakes we are inclined to make, and hopefully we won't have to make a lot of those mistakes because of it.

I'm truly sorry about your loss (fish & money). As you begin again, try to be more patient, and allow your tank to cycle and mature - and take the advice of the RC members before adding any livestock. Good luck.

[wooden_reefer]

Originally Posted by Ben34105

After 3 weeks of running with just the sand and rock the water cleared and we added 2 clown fish.

What is the point in running the tank for three weeks? You have to know what you aimed to achieve by the three weeks of running the pump of the tank.

You want to cycle the medium of biological filtration inside the tank, such as live rock.

What have happened in the three weeks? Do you have a clue?

A cycle is suppose to be taking place. To have a cycle you must have bacteria seed and a source of ammonia. Did you have them?

[Michael]

theres no doubt mistakes were made and it was done all wrong, i feel for you, however as reefer said in his first post on item 4 "plan for the future" you added too many fish when the bacteria wasnt strong enough to cope with the waste, the cloudy water was a bacterial bloom and the media you original part cycled collapsed. you need to start over again and build up your bacteria colonies so they are strong enough to cope with your intended fish load.

good luck

[chow]

ouch!

[wooden_reefer]

I think it is not that you do things too quickly, rather, you did not do want are needed.

You did wait for three weeks, so you have some patience.

But you have to know what you want to achieve, approximately at least, by waiting.

[Ben34105]

Thanks for all the responses. I'll try to answer all the questions.

My tank does not have a sump.

During the 3 week waiting period the tank had a bottle of copepods, was being dosed with phyto and a bottle of bacteria i had to bring home on ice. I can't remember the name. I was feeding the tank fish flakes to help get things rolling. Water was tested every 3 days. Never showed ammonia.

Most of the rock in my tank has purple corraline algae on it. A lot of people in my area are breaking down their tanks due to the economy and taking the rock back to the LFS so I bought all the well established pieces for my tank and brought them home in 5 gallon buckets full of water. The LFS keeps the rock in big tanks with pumps and lights. They also have mushrooms, fan dusters, bristle worms, aiptasia, zoos and other life on them.

My SG always ranged between 1.024 and 1.026. When they ran the 4 test and held them up to the color charts they were always the first bar. Nothing ever registered. All water was RO/DI and I used Instant Ocean reef crystals for the salt mix.

I have experience with a 29g freshwater tank and have never had problems with it. I decided to take the next step and start a saltwater tank.

Only 2 fish in my tank were tangs. The rest were clowns, bangaii cardinals, flame angel, copperbanded angel, goby and a few other small fish.

I have taken all of the media out of my FX5 except the chemipure.

My circulation is the FX5 with 2 eductors that are 1 to 5. So if the FX5 puts out 925 I should have 4,625 gph. I also have 1 small powerhead behind the rocks pushing 400gph to help keep the sand clean.

I didn't buy the clarifier. They had a bottle of it and poured me a bag of it to try. I don't remember the name, I just know it was red. I'll ask again next time I go in.

The QT tank was set up the same time as the DT. It's just a small 10g with the pump hanging on the back.

I started this whole project in late summer with hopes of having something nice looking for Christmas when the family comes over. I thought that would have been enough time, but evidently not.

As for the ich outbreak, I replaced all the water in the tank. Do I still have to wait the 8 weeks? The LFS is telling me I should be fine and should try to move a fish out of QT and back into the DT after 5 days of the new water change.

[glenns]

I think you should wait. I believe I read that one part of ich's life cycle is in the sand and or rock. I could be mistaken though. I think I've read raising the tanks temperature will shorten it life span.

[fishaholic911]

Originally Posted by iskandar

most likely bacterial bloom => low oxygen => hypoxia => fish deaths by suffocation.
Bacterial blooms occur most often amid overfeeding and bioload overloading. I bet you had triggers and/or tangs.
And yes, bioballs should be avoided.
We all make mistakes, just take it slow...

^ +1