Why is my sand turning red??

dun2run · 12/26/2009, 09:18 PM

My sand is starting to turn red. It resembles diatoms in that it looks like a red dust. When I turn the lights off it seems to go away however, when the lights come on it comes back. Is this cyano and what do I do about it?

Im hoping its a water flow issue.(I dont have any powerheads yet)

AzCondor · 12/26/2009, 09:22 PM

my guess is cyano, get some flow going and it should go away

Amici316 · 12/26/2009, 09:25 PM

Yup, sounds like Cyano bacteria. Flow is just a band aid for it, you really need to look at what is fueling it and try to eliminate its food source. To rid your tank of cyano its best to reduce feeding, increase water changes, keep your nitrates low and add a phosphate reducer. It is primarily fueled by phosphates IME but the others are also contributing factors. Also keep in mind that some foods are higher in phosphates than others.

AzCondor · 12/26/2009, 09:28 PM

Quote:

It is primarily fueled by phosphates IME but the others are also contributing factors. Also keep in mind that some foods are higher in phosphates than others.

just out of curiosity what foods are higher in phosphate

stingythingy45 · 12/26/2009, 09:28 PM

Are you running a skimmer?

stingythingy45 · 12/26/2009, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AzCondor

just out of curiosity what foods are higher in phosphate

From what I understand,frozen mysis,especially the PE stuff is high in phosphates.Some of my reefer buds rinse the mysis with ro in a brine net before feeding.
Personally,I think any organics that's not extracted from the water and settles to the bottom can fuel cyano.

dun2run · 12/26/2009, 09:34 PM

Yes running a skimmer, a gfo reactor, and do 25 gallon water changes every two weeks. I tried the lights out trick for a few days and it came back.
Currently I do not have a phosphate test. My LFS tested it and it did have a little, that was before the gfo reactor install though.

dun2run · 12/26/2009, 09:35 PM

Just missed your post on the mysis. I do feed a very small amount of pe mysis about every other day. I havent been rinsing it.

stingythingy45 · 12/26/2009, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dun2run

Just missed your post on the mysis. I do feed a very small amount of pe mysis about every other day. I havent been rinsing it.

It's not the mysis that's heavy with phosphate it's the brine solution that it's frozen in.Might what to switch to regular mysis,maybe Hikari,San Bay.I feed that with no problems.Also,do you feed frozen cyclopeeze?

dun2run · 12/26/2009, 09:43 PM

No, mysis is the only frozen I feed at this time. I have wondered about the liquid that comes with it. Could that be a contributor to the phosphate?

stingythingy45 · 12/26/2009, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dun2run

No, mysis is the only frozen I feed at this time. I have wondered about the liquid that comes with it. Could that be a contributor to the phosphate?

Some of my fellow reefers have thawed some in tank water and tested the phosphates on a Hanna tester and found it extremely high.

dun2run · 12/26/2009, 09:51 PM

1. I will start rinsing the mysis.
2. Need more water flow. (powerheads)

Been trying to talk myself into the Vortechs anyway

Cha-ching!!!!

dun2run · 12/26/2009, 09:53 PM

Forgot to ask, since this is only in my sand at the moment, should I vacuum the sand when I do water changes?

stingythingy45 · 12/26/2009, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dun2run

Forgot to ask, since this is only in my sand at the moment, should I vacuum the sand when I do water changes?

Water flow helps IMO, because it keeps the nutrients/detritus in the water column for the skimmer to pick it up.
I used to reach in and roll it all into one big pile,then scoop it out.
Siphoning can be a hassle as you might get a lot of the substrate.Also if you try a small tube it will get plugged often as does a turkey baster.
I find that having a over sized an well maintained skimmer is your best friend when it comes to cyano.

Amici316 · 12/26/2009, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AzCondor

just out of curiosity what foods are higher in phosphate

Check out post #9 by Randy. Its got a great list and a link as well.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1471874

lordofthereef · 12/26/2009, 11:10 PM

I would disagree that flow is just a bandaid only because it is highly unlikely that you are actually going to truly be able to run zero phosphates if you are really ever feeding the tank. Of course there is overfeeding so if you have a TON of it showing up that is probably the case but I have found that it shows up in stagnant spots quite frequently even when all params are in check and the rest of the tank looks fine.

padi200 · 12/27/2009, 01:00 AM

I think a light siphoning of the cyano helps. Yes it will grow back unless you find the cause, but it does help to remove it. If you use large plastic tubing, it comes up and you can easily not get too much gravel/sand with it.
1+ in rinsing the mysis. There is really no down side to rinsing.

tipmoff · 12/27/2009, 07:27 AM

I agree that flow helps but will not abate the problem. I have 2 K3's and a K4 in a 75 and still had the problem. I purchased a bigger skimmer and switched lighting from 15K MH to 20K MH and within a week it was gone. All other factors remained the same so I had to conclude it was that combo but more so the lights. The new skimmer was up and running for 3 weeks before the lighting change.
All tanks are different so you'll need to experiment with the combo's everyone has suggested. This problem can be frustrating but can be beaten.

dun2run · 12/27/2009, 08:57 AM

Thats another thing I forgot. One of my actinic bulbs bit the dust when all of this started. Could that have anything to do with it?

DC_40gallon · 12/27/2009, 10:22 AM

I'm in your boat as well. I have 2,050 gallons per hour of tank turnover in my 40 breeder, brand new T5 bulbs, eshopps skimmer that I am having to dump every 3 days, a phosphate reactor running phosban, and an assortment of snails, lawnmower blenny and an urchin.

With all of the above I went from hair algea straight to cyano. I do a rodi water change of 10 gallons or 25% every 4-5 days with my zero tds unit and I siphon the cyano off the substrate and within 24 hours it's
back. I feed a pea size of mysis shrimp daily and it never hits the ground from my fish inhaling it.

DC_40gallon · 12/27/2009, 10:23 AM

What's sad is my 10 gallon nano I'm watching
cycle appears 1000x more stable then my 40 gallon.

padi200 · 12/27/2009, 11:08 AM

Yes, the dead buld may be part of it. If you replace it that should help and since you probably need to do that anyway, why not?

mm949 · 12/27/2009, 11:34 AM

what they said^^^^. if the algae comes and goes with the lights then the bulbs are out of spectrum

12/26/2009, 09:18 PM	#1
dun2run Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Mobile, AL Posts: 259	Why is my sand turning red?? My sand is starting to turn red. It resembles diatoms in that it looks like a red dust. When I turn the lights off it seems to go away however, when the lights come on it comes back. Is this cyano and what do I do about it? Im hoping its a water flow issue.(I dont have any powerheads yet)

12/26/2009, 09:22 PM	#2
AzCondor Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 72	my guess is cyano, get some flow going and it should go away __________________ Vegetarian-A bad hunter. Someone who survives by consuming not food, but the stuff that food eats. The vegetarian was forced to subsist on slower prey, such as the broccoli and carrot.

12/26/2009, 09:28 PM	#5
stingythingy45 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: MA Posts: 3,296	Are you running a skimmer? __________________ Bob Current Tank Info: 90 gallon,mixed Reef,2-250 watt Optix 3 pendants(Phoenix 14K)2-54 watt T5 Super actnics ,ASM G-2 Gate/recirc mods,70 gal. basement sump,20L ref

12/26/2009, 11:10 PM	#16
lordofthereef One reef to rule them all Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Leominster, MA Posts: 5,299	I would disagree that flow is just a bandaid only because it is highly unlikely that you are actually going to truly be able to run zero phosphates if you are really ever feeding the tank. Of course there is overfeeding so if you have a TON of it showing up that is probably the case but I have found that it shows up in stagnant spots quite frequently even when all params are in check and the rest of the tank looks fine. __________________ "A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than you love yourself" ~ Josh Billings Visit My Home page for current build thread (click my user name and select "Visit LordoftheReef's Homepage" in the drop down menu!

12/27/2009, 07:27 AM	#18
tipmoff Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Palm Harbor, FL Posts: 430	I agree that flow helps but will not abate the problem. I have 2 K3's and a K4 in a 75 and still had the problem. I purchased a bigger skimmer and switched lighting from 15K MH to 20K MH and within a week it was gone. All other factors remained the same so I had to conclude it was that combo but more so the lights. The new skimmer was up and running for 3 weeks before the lighting change. All tanks are different so you'll need to experiment with the combo's everyone has suggested. This problem can be frustrating but can be beaten. __________________ "When I was a boy the Dead Sea was only sick. ." Member T.B.R.C. Current Tank Info: 75 Gallon Mixed Reef

12/26/2009, 09:25 PM	#3
Amici316 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 85	Yup, sounds like Cyano bacteria. Flow is just a band aid for it, you really need to look at what is fueling it and try to eliminate its food source. To rid your tank of cyano its best to reduce feeding, increase water changes, keep your nitrates low and add a phosphate reducer. It is primarily fueled by phosphates IME but the others are also contributing factors. Also keep in mind that some foods are higher in phosphates than others.

12/26/2009, 09:34 PM	#7
dun2run Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Mobile, AL Posts: 259	Yes running a skimmer, a gfo reactor, and do 25 gallon water changes every two weeks. I tried the lights out trick for a few days and it came back. Currently I do not have a phosphate test. My LFS tested it and it did have a little, that was before the gfo reactor install though.

12/26/2009, 09:35 PM	#8
dun2run Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Mobile, AL Posts: 259	Just missed your post on the mysis. I do feed a very small amount of pe mysis about every other day. I havent been rinsing it.

12/26/2009, 09:43 PM	#10
dun2run Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Mobile, AL Posts: 259	No, mysis is the only frozen I feed at this time. I have wondered about the liquid that comes with it. Could that be a contributor to the phosphate?

12/26/2009, 09:51 PM	#12
dun2run Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Mobile, AL Posts: 259	1. I will start rinsing the mysis. 2. Need more water flow. (powerheads) Been trying to talk myself into the Vortechs anyway Cha-ching!!!!

12/26/2009, 09:53 PM	#13
dun2run Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Mobile, AL Posts: 259	Forgot to ask, since this is only in my sand at the moment, should I vacuum the sand when I do water changes?

12/27/2009, 01:00 AM	#17
padi200 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: LA, CA Posts: 529	I think a light siphoning of the cyano helps. Yes it will grow back unless you find the cause, but it does help to remove it. If you use large plastic tubing, it comes up and you can easily not get too much gravel/sand with it. 1+ in rinsing the mysis. There is really no down side to rinsing.

12/27/2009, 08:57 AM	#19
dun2run Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Mobile, AL Posts: 259	Thats another thing I forgot. One of my actinic bulbs bit the dust when all of this started. Could that have anything to do with it?

12/27/2009, 10:22 AM	#20
DC_40gallon Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,474	I'm in your boat as well. I have 2,050 gallons per hour of tank turnover in my 40 breeder, brand new T5 bulbs, eshopps skimmer that I am having to dump every 3 days, a phosphate reactor running phosban, and an assortment of snails, lawnmower blenny and an urchin. With all of the above I went from hair algea straight to cyano. I do a rodi water change of 10 gallons or 25% every 4-5 days with my zero tds unit and I siphon the cyano off the substrate and within 24 hours it's back. I feed a pea size of mysis shrimp daily and it never hits the ground from my fish inhaling it.

12/27/2009, 10:23 AM	#21
DC_40gallon Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,474	What's sad is my 10 gallon nano I'm watching cycle appears 1000x more stable then my 40 gallon.

12/27/2009, 11:08 AM	#22
padi200 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: LA, CA Posts: 529	yes, the dead bulb may play a rold Yes, the dead buld may be part of it. If you replace it that should help and since you probably need to do that anyway, why not?

12/27/2009, 11:34 AM	#23
mm949 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: chicago Posts: 1,843	what they said^^^^. if the algae comes and goes with the lights then the bulbs are out of spectrum