GHA -- What Gives?

Whys · 12/30/2009, 05:00 AM

The tank has been running for just over a year with ample liverock, extremely low bioload, and a healthy DSB. Things have always been in good balance, no nitrate, no phosphate, no algae. Then a couple months ago a small patch of long green hair appeared on the sandbed. I had just lost a hermit and a couple of margarites, so didn't think much of it. Figured the emerald would keep it in check until I got around to replacing the snails. I still haven't gotten to that, but more importantly, the problem is clearly bigger than a couple of snails. GHA is now rapidly taking over everywhere. And here is the strange part... no nitrate, no phosphate. I don't get it, what's driving this?

The only things I can think of is I did intentionally over feed twice before dosing with FWE twice a couple months ago, as the directions indicate. I knew it might have a small impact, but I wasn't expecting anything like this. I'm worried the aggressive FWE dosing ( ~5x for 48 hours, repeated once, a week later ) has seriously harmed my DSB. It once teamed with life, but ever since I started dosing with FWE, having performed a couple failed 4x dosings months back, the benthic critters have been disappearing. I suspect that's why my court-jester suddenly starved after months of doing really well. And now I suspect it has something to do with this algae outbreak this time around. The benthic layer is now a virtual wasteland and despite all the GHA, not to mention a refugium, I'm not seeing any copepods. So are the benthics now roting into the water column due to FWE overload? Why would there be so much GHA if there isn't any nitrate or phosphate?

The good news is the flatworms are finally gone, but my system needs some serious help. Any insights?

Whys · 12/31/2009, 04:55 AM

bump

PRDubois · 12/31/2009, 05:24 AM

Start the Vodka

Whys · 12/31/2009, 05:27 AM

I did that like an hour ago. But what about my tank?!

Michael · 12/31/2009, 05:30 AM

hey whys, get the ph up to 8.4 for starters, when i had a small outburst i raised the ph and pulled a bit out manually, i double and treble checked my water filters were fine and not exhausted and eventually it went, as your system has been so healthy id suggest you do this first, give it a month and see how it is, to keep the ph right dose some kalk and test daily for ph and calcium, dont let the calcium get over 500 imo, otherwise your alk may suffer and the ph will be weak, just give it a try first

Whys · 12/31/2009, 05:49 AM

Okay Michael, I trust your opinion, but that does sound more complicated than I was hoping for. I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around the problem's source. I have virtually no bioload and this seems so sudden. And if the problem is in fact a change in my DSB, then I'm wondering what I should do about that.

I feel like every time I solve one problem, it leads to another. Sucketh.

Michael · 12/31/2009, 05:51 AM

well providing your water source is pure, im sure eventually this will pass, i think most of us mortals have some algae problems from time to time

Whys · 12/31/2009, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael

i think most of us mortals have some algae problems from time to time

Bah....

james3586 · 12/31/2009, 06:00 AM

Are you using plain tap water. You need to do a big water change with R/O filtered water with 000 ppm's. Dosing your tap water with a little bottle of dechlorinater just doesn't do it. People don't often think about magnesium but it's so important to keep magnesium levels up on the high end of the scale. This is what i use to dose my 144 gal salt water tank with, http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/...ter-kit-1.html It is pure chemicals with none of the extra crap in there which causes you problems. This may take a week or to but it will cure your problem, Remember don't buy every little chemical you see at the fish store, they contain ingredients and fillers. Make sure your using a good salt for water changes most of them contain fillers and differ from bag to bag (batches differ). This is the best salt to use http://www.aquacraft.net/s9914.html The two I use are the Coral Marine, and the Bio sea. You really don't need the Marine Environment. It is only a little bit better than the other two and way over priced, but if you can afford it you may want to try it out. Siphon as much of the GHA as you can too.

Whys · 12/31/2009, 10:07 AM

I always use 000 RO/DI and oceanic salt. I don't do water changes as often as I should, but like I said, nitrates and phosphates have never shown up. I don't think it's just a coincidence that this issue has emerged at the same time my benthic critters have disappeared. I can remove the algae by hand, but I'm still concerned by what may be a larger issue with my DSB, if that's the source of the trouble.

I don't know, it's weird. I'll just have take the crude out, do more water changes, and see where it goes. Thanks for the thoughts everyone.

BTW Michael, my ph is currently 8.2. It's always been pretty close to that.

Sisterlimonpot · 12/31/2009, 10:26 AM

Welcome back Whys, how’s the new little one? I'd say that you're on the right track about having much larger problems than GHA. Although you know me I don't know enough about DSB's to lend any advice, but I wonder if an abnormal amount of FWE actually has a negative effect. There was a local that had a DSB and ironically enough after dosing more than the recommended doses shortly after, had his tank crashed. I don't know if he ever linked it to FWE and I didn't give it much thought until now. Not to scare you because like I said I know nothing but what you have taught me about DSB's. Just thinking out loud. and welcoming you back. It's been dull without you and WK!!!

Whys · 12/31/2009, 10:59 AM

Hey Sister, good to see you. The little one is as beautiful and lovable as ever.

As to the FWE, I had to do it. Freak'n things just wouldn't die, but leaving it in for 48 hours before running the carbon really seemed to do the trick. Puts me a bind for what to do now tho. I could get another live rock to help repopulate the critters, but wouldn't dare put it in without a FWE treatment on it first. But from what I'm noticing, that could defeat the point of a new rock. I might try a lesser dose on the new rock in a QT and observe for awhile. But I've got some real maintenance to do first. Looking at my tank right now makes we want to just start all over :P

Michael · 12/31/2009, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sisterlimonpot

It's been dull without you and WK!!!

i agree, and even though there are 200,000 members here along with sister and the capn, you guys make the new to the hobby the forum it is, been pretty quiet here of late, i feel almost like a newbie here all on my own

Sisterlimonpot · 12/31/2009, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whys

Hey Sister, good to see you. The little one is as beautiful and lovable as ever.

As to the FWE, I had to do it. Freak'n things just wouldn't die, but leaving it in for 48 hours before running the carbon really seemed to do the trick. Puts me a bind for what to do now tho. I could get another live rock to help repopulate the critters, but wouldn't dare put it in without a FWE treatment on it first. But from what I'm noticing, that could defeat the point of a new rock. I might try a lesser dose on the new rock in a QT and observe for awhile. But I've got some real maintenance to do first. Looking at my tank right now makes we want to just start all over :P

Sounds like a rock and a hard place. What about culturing them separately and adding them to the tank, that way you don't run the risk of introducing flat worms again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael

i agree, and even though there are 200,000 members here along with sister and the capn, you guys make the new to the hobby the forum it is, been pretty quiet here of late, i feel almost like a newbie here all on my own

I second that!!!! It's like my last promotion 3 years ago. The younger folks don't identify with me anymore and I'm not quite in with the seasoned vets yet, I'm kinda stuck in the middle.

Whys · 12/31/2009, 12:38 PM

Tell you what Michael, when you become an administrator on this site, I'll start contributing again. But the way I see it, really great facilitators like you and Sister always end up fighting an uphill battle rather than getting recognized for helping out. It gets old.

Hey, looks who's helping me out and giving great advice and suggestions in a polite and friendly manner while expecting nothing in return, not even an abstract thank you... Why it's Michael and Sisterlimonpot! Yep, this place sure would be worth less of our time if it wasn't for Michael and Sisterlimonpot! RC sure could do worse than Michael and Sisterlimonpot!

...but whatever.

Sisterlimonpot · 12/31/2009, 12:45 PM

where did that come from???? A Whys man once said, “I don't care what others think and I’m not looking for "thanks" from anyone.”

And the idea of becoming a mod I don't think they are accepting applications. However I don’t know how other forums work, just this one. But I do see where you’re coming from.

Chris27 · 12/31/2009, 01:15 PM

A healthy batch of livestock populated macro algae and a nice big scoop of sand from an established tank may get the ball rolling in the critter department. As for the GHA, I've found that a couple of Zebra hermits will mow the stuff down in a matter of weeks.

Are you still having problems keeping inverts, if so a large water change and some GAC can help out....

12/30/2009, 05:00 AM	#1
Whys Moved On Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 3,263	GHA -- What Gives? The tank has been running for just over a year with ample liverock, extremely low bioload, and a healthy DSB. Things have always been in good balance, no nitrate, no phosphate, no algae. Then a couple months ago a small patch of long green hair appeared on the sandbed. I had just lost a hermit and a couple of margarites, so didn't think much of it. Figured the emerald would keep it in check until I got around to replacing the snails. I still haven't gotten to that, but more importantly, the problem is clearly bigger than a couple of snails. GHA is now rapidly taking over everywhere. And here is the strange part... no nitrate, no phosphate. I don't get it, what's driving this? The only things I can think of is I did intentionally over feed twice before dosing with FWE twice a couple months ago, as the directions indicate. I knew it might have a small impact, but I wasn't expecting anything like this. I'm worried the aggressive FWE dosing ( ~5x for 48 hours, repeated once, a week later ) has seriously harmed my DSB. It once teamed with life, but ever since I started dosing with FWE, having performed a couple failed 4x dosings months back, the benthic critters have been disappearing. I suspect that's why my court-jester suddenly starved after months of doing really well. And now I suspect it has something to do with this algae outbreak this time around. The benthic layer is now a virtual wasteland and despite all the GHA, not to mention a refugium, I'm not seeing any copepods. So are the benthics now roting into the water column due to FWE overload? Why would there be so much GHA if there isn't any nitrate or phosphate? The good news is the flatworms are finally gone, but my system needs some serious help. Any insights?

12/31/2009, 05:24 AM	#3
PRDubois Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Chester, VA Posts: 3,626	Start the Vodka __________________ http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2534403 Current Tank Info: 225 gal Reef, 60 gal reef & 40b frag tank

12/31/2009, 05:30 AM	#5
Michael NTTH Rookie Help Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Gloucester, England,UK Posts: 7,808 Blog Entries: 6	hey whys, get the ph up to 8.4 for starters, when i had a small outburst i raised the ph and pulled a bit out manually, i double and treble checked my water filters were fine and not exhausted and eventually it went, as your system has been so healthy id suggest you do this first, give it a month and see how it is, to keep the ph right dose some kalk and test daily for ph and calcium, dont let the calcium get over 500 imo, otherwise your alk may suffer and the ph will be weak, just give it a try first __________________ Don't be afraid to ask questions, we in the new to the hobby are here to help you [For My Tank Spec,Photo Album,Articles and website, click on my name] MY Very Kindest and Warmest Regards , MIKE Current Tank Info: I have a 92 gal Corner Tank, and way too many pieces of equipment to list really, (proud member of the reef central corner club)

12/31/2009, 05:51 AM	#7
Michael NTTH Rookie Help Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Gloucester, England,UK Posts: 7,808 Blog Entries: 6	well providing your water source is pure, im sure eventually this will pass, i think most of us mortals have some algae problems from time to time __________________ Don't be afraid to ask questions, we in the new to the hobby are here to help you [For My Tank Spec,Photo Album,Articles and website, click on my name] MY Very Kindest and Warmest Regards , MIKE Current Tank Info: I have a 92 gal Corner Tank, and way too many pieces of equipment to list really, (proud member of the reef central corner club)

12/31/2009, 10:26 AM	#11
Sisterlimonpot R.C. Fraternity President Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Litchfeild Park AZ Posts: 11,490 Blog Entries: 2	Welcome back Whys, how’s the new little one? I'd say that you're on the right track about having much larger problems than GHA. Although you know me I don't know enough about DSB's to lend any advice, but I wonder if an abnormal amount of FWE actually has a negative effect. There was a local that had a DSB and ironically enough after dosing more than the recommended doses shortly after, had his tank crashed. I don't know if he ever linked it to FWE and I didn't give it much thought until now. Not to scare you because like I said I know nothing but what you have taught me about DSB's. Just thinking out loud. and welcoming you back. It's been dull without you and WK!!! __________________ Jimmy MASVC President Dishes are done man! Current Tank Info: 300 in progress

12/31/2009, 04:55 AM	#2
Whys Moved On Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 3,263	bump

12/31/2009, 05:27 AM	#4
Whys Moved On Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 3,263	I did that like an hour ago. But what about my tank?!

12/31/2009, 05:49 AM	#6
Whys Moved On Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 3,263	Okay Michael, I trust your opinion, but that does sound more complicated than I was hoping for. I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around the problem's source. I have virtually no bioload and this seems so sudden. And if the problem is in fact a change in my DSB, then I'm wondering what I should do about that. I feel like every time I solve one problem, it leads to another. Sucketh.

12/31/2009, 06:00 AM	#9
james3586 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 55	Are you using plain tap water. You need to do a big water change with R/O filtered water with 000 ppm's. Dosing your tap water with a little bottle of dechlorinater just doesn't do it. People don't often think about magnesium but it's so important to keep magnesium levels up on the high end of the scale. This is what i use to dose my 144 gal salt water tank with, http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/...ter-kit-1.html It is pure chemicals with none of the extra crap in there which causes you problems. This may take a week or to but it will cure your problem, Remember don't buy every little chemical you see at the fish store, they contain ingredients and fillers. Make sure your using a good salt for water changes most of them contain fillers and differ from bag to bag (batches differ). This is the best salt to use http://www.aquacraft.net/s9914.html The two I use are the Coral Marine, and the Bio sea. You really don't need the Marine Environment. It is only a little bit better than the other two and way over priced, but if you can afford it you may want to try it out. Siphon as much of the GHA as you can too.

12/31/2009, 10:07 AM	#10
Whys Moved On Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 3,263	I always use 000 RO/DI and oceanic salt. I don't do water changes as often as I should, but like I said, nitrates and phosphates have never shown up. I don't think it's just a coincidence that this issue has emerged at the same time my benthic critters have disappeared. I can remove the algae by hand, but I'm still concerned by what may be a larger issue with my DSB, if that's the source of the trouble. I don't know, it's weird. I'll just have take the crude out, do more water changes, and see where it goes. Thanks for the thoughts everyone. BTW Michael, my ph is currently 8.2. It's always been pretty close to that.

12/31/2009, 10:59 AM	#12
Whys Moved On Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 3,263	Hey Sister, good to see you. The little one is as beautiful and lovable as ever. As to the FWE, I had to do it. Freak'n things just wouldn't die, but leaving it in for 48 hours before running the carbon really seemed to do the trick. Puts me a bind for what to do now tho. I could get another live rock to help repopulate the critters, but wouldn't dare put it in without a FWE treatment on it first. But from what I'm noticing, that could defeat the point of a new rock. I might try a lesser dose on the new rock in a QT and observe for awhile. But I've got some real maintenance to do first. Looking at my tank right now makes we want to just start all over :P

12/31/2009, 12:38 PM	#15
Whys Moved On Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 3,263	Tell you what Michael, when you become an administrator on this site, I'll start contributing again. But the way I see it, really great facilitators like you and Sister always end up fighting an uphill battle rather than getting recognized for helping out. It gets old. Hey, looks who's helping me out and giving great advice and suggestions in a polite and friendly manner while expecting nothing in return, not even an abstract thank you... Why it's Michael and Sisterlimonpot! Yep, this place sure would be worth less of our time if it wasn't for Michael and Sisterlimonpot! RC sure could do worse than Michael and Sisterlimonpot! ...but whatever.

12/31/2009, 12:45 PM	#16
Sisterlimonpot R.C. Fraternity President Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Litchfeild Park AZ Posts: 11,490 Blog Entries: 2	where did that come from???? A Whys man once said, “I don't care what others think and I’m not looking for "thanks" from anyone.” And the idea of becoming a mod I don't think they are accepting applications. However I don’t know how other forums work, just this one. But I do see where you’re coming from. __________________ Jimmy MASVC President Dishes are done man! Current Tank Info: 300 in progress

12/31/2009, 01:15 PM	#17
Chris27 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 4,452	A healthy batch of livestock populated macro algae and a nice big scoop of sand from an established tank may get the ball rolling in the critter department. As for the GHA, I've found that a couple of Zebra hermits will mow the stuff down in a matter of weeks. Are you still having problems keeping inverts, if so a large water change and some GAC can help out....