Best reef 'style' & dosing questions

bnicholson · 01/07/2010, 09:30 PM

Hello! Another question

I'm working on setting my new 120G up as a reef, I've only had it for about 2 months but I bought it running & fully cycled.

I'm looking to set up a fairly low-maintenance reef. I don't want to have a tank where I need to bring in someone with a PhD whenever I want to go on a vacation, yet I want to to still have a brightly colored & attractive tank.

Money & space a concern, I've looked at many reactor setups & they are definitely more than I want to spend @ the moment.

So, what is the best way to get a colorful, busy looking tank while staying fairly low maintenance/cost. I'm a carpenter contractor so I'm pretty good with diy things.

Thanks!

bertoni · 01/07/2010, 09:46 PM

Automations can take the place of a fair amount of work time. An autotopoff is the first device I'd add. After that, I would consider a two-channel dosing pump for calcium and alkalinity supplementation, if I didn't want to spring for a reactor. The Eheim feeder is handy for longer vacations. For trips less than a couple weeks in length, many tanks won't require any feeding.

bnicholson · 01/07/2010, 11:44 PM

What is the best way to set up a 2 part doser? Best bump, time, holding container, etc. I don't really understand the process.

bnicholson · 01/07/2010, 11:49 PM

Also, would kalk & an ATO take care of mixed reef?

bertoni · 01/08/2010, 12:10 AM

You could try kalk and autotopoff. More often than not, kalk isn't enough by itself.

As far as dosing, I have some MasterFlex pumps that I got second-hand. I don't know much about other products, but the BulkReefSupply dosing pumps seem to get reasonable reviews.

lordofthereef · 01/08/2010, 01:04 AM

Plenty of zoas, shrooms, ricordia and the like would be what I would go with Would take a lot to wipe them out while on vacation.

Beaun · 01/08/2010, 09:12 AM

I would stick with a two part, like from bulkreefsupply.com, for a 120g tank. When you get in the 180g range is when calcium reactors start becoming more worth the money invested.

jbardwel · 01/08/2010, 06:18 PM

I would in general stay away from sps corals, rather stock your tank with leathers and zoos (Zoos can be very colorful) If you keep the fish biomass low, there will be a lot less work. get a good tight seal on the lid, this will keep water loss to a minimum, there is plenty of gas exchange taking place in the skimmer. To avoid floods I would go sumpless as in my experience floods are usually but not always caused by plumbing problems that can develop while you are away.

cveverly · 01/08/2010, 07:18 PM

First I would get a “reef ready” tank and build your own sump unless you can find a used one. Personally I like the biggest sump that will fit under your tank. Do not put a lid on you tank but do put a light diffuser (egg crate) over it.

Build your stand higher than normal store bought stands. Mine is a factory stand but it is the tallest one I could find. This height helps when you are working with you skimmer and allows you more choices of skimmers.

Get a good skimmer, this is one place you can not skimp. There are good skimmers at reasonable prices but for your size tank expect to spend $350 plus.

Lights are your next cost concern. I would get enough light to support SPS because you will want to try them. It is an addiction and no one is immune.

I like a blend of T5 and halide but there are a lot of opinions on this.

If you go with a softie tank you may not need to supplement your alk and cal. Should you decide to venture into LPS and SPS you will need to supplement. This is an easy 1-2-3 process ONCE your tank has achieved the correct levels of ALK, CAL and MAG. The trick is to dose your display to get the desired levels of supplements. This process my require more of one part than the others. However, once the tank is where you want it just add equal amounts of ALK and CAL supplements. You will also need to add magnesium but not on a daily basis like the ALK and CAL.

For a cheap and easy way to dose do it manually. I add the calcium right to my display tank. I mix it with RO water before adding it to the tank. The ALK I like to drip slower and into the sump. I use a plastic beverage bottle. I am guessing it to be about 24 oz. Cut the bottom out of the bottle, drill a hole in the cap just big enough for an soft air line to fit through. Glue the air line in the cap. Support the upside down bottle some place out of the way but easy to access. I put mine inside the door for the stand. Add an air line valve to the other end of the plastic line. This will let you control the drip rate. Put the desired amount of ALK additive into a large glass and fill glass with RO water. Pour mixture of RO and ALK additive into the open end of the bottle. It will slowly drip the diluted ALK mixture into your sump.

Magnesium can be added like calcium (see above).

The next thing is to have an automatic top off system (ATO). I bought a DIY one from Bulk Reef Supply and use it to control a cheap AquaLifter pump. I have an old wet dry sump that I keep filled with RO water. As the tank evaporates the level drops and the ATO adds fresh RO water to your tank. Some people plumb their RO unit to the sump but I am afraid of something failing. If mine fails the most I can over fill is 4 or 5 gallons. This brings up a point on the sump. Make sure you design your sump to hold all the water that will come from the displays overflows. If not you will have a wet floor when the power goes off.

Live rock as the filter. I would watch my local clubs for someone getting out or down sizing and get their live rock. Be sure it is pest free!

I also use a reactor from Bulk Reef Supply to run GFO and a second one for carbon. This will help keep toxins out of the water and control phosphates.

Buy a RO/DI filter. This is almost a must for a successful reef tank.

Have a place to make water for water changes. I use a Brute trash can and bought a dolly for it. I put a heater and pump in it to help keep the water stirred up. The pump also makes it easier to get the water from the trash can to the display or sump. Make sure your new water matches your display. I only test temp, alk and calcium.

If you have not fallen asleep reading this I hope it helps. I am sure others will jump in to add things to make a low maintenance system.

cveverly · 01/08/2010, 07:39 PM

Forgot the most important step.

Read ... Study .... Absorb the knowledge of RC ... Plan .... Ask questions ..... Most of all GO SLOWLY!

bnicholson · 01/08/2010, 07:45 PM

Thanks for the reply, I found it very informative.

I'm already mostly setup, the 120g was running when I got it so I already have a lot of live rock, I have a homemade sump, a somewhat lousy skimmer (Redsea Berlin Classic), and I recently picked up a 716W Oddysea T5/Halide setup (surprising nice, considering the price)

I think my next purchase will be an ro/di unit (Off Melev's Reef, I think) and then an ATO after that.

After that, I'm thinking a GFO/Carbon reactor from BRS like you suggested and I'll set up a 2 part system further down the line.

Thanks for the help, any other input would be appreciated.

cveverly · 01/08/2010, 07:58 PM

Sounds like you are on the right track. Your skimmer will be fine for a while just keep a low bio-load in the tank until you buy something else.

01/07/2010, 09:30 PM	#1
bnicholson Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Sunshine Coast, BC Posts: 31	Best reef 'style' & dosing questions Hello! Another question I'm working on setting my new 120G up as a reef, I've only had it for about 2 months but I bought it running & fully cycled. I'm looking to set up a fairly low-maintenance reef. I don't want to have a tank where I need to bring in someone with a PhD whenever I want to go on a vacation, yet I want to to still have a brightly colored & attractive tank. Money & space a concern, I've looked at many reactor setups & they are definitely more than I want to spend @ the moment. So, what is the best way to get a colorful, busy looking tank while staying fairly low maintenance/cost. I'm a carpenter contractor so I'm pretty good with diy things. Thanks! __________________ _______________________________ 120G Saltwater with 50g Sump 90G planted South American cichlid tank 30g planted frog & newt tank

01/07/2010, 09:46 PM	#2
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	Automations can take the place of a fair amount of work time. An autotopoff is the first device I'd add. After that, I would consider a two-channel dosing pump for calcium and alkalinity supplementation, if I didn't want to spring for a reactor. The Eheim feeder is handy for longer vacations. For trips less than a couple weeks in length, many tanks won't require any feeding. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

01/07/2010, 11:44 PM	#3
bnicholson Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Sunshine Coast, BC Posts: 31	What is the best way to set up a 2 part doser? Best bump, time, holding container, etc. I don't really understand the process. __________________ _______________________________ 120G Saltwater with 50g Sump 90G planted South American cichlid tank 30g planted frog & newt tank

01/07/2010, 11:49 PM	#4
bnicholson Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Sunshine Coast, BC Posts: 31	Also, would kalk & an ATO take care of mixed reef? __________________ _______________________________ 120G Saltwater with 50g Sump 90G planted South American cichlid tank 30g planted frog & newt tank

01/08/2010, 12:10 AM	#5
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	You could try kalk and autotopoff. More often than not, kalk isn't enough by itself. As far as dosing, I have some MasterFlex pumps that I got second-hand. I don't know much about other products, but the BulkReefSupply dosing pumps seem to get reasonable reviews. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

01/08/2010, 01:04 AM	#6
lordofthereef One reef to rule them all Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Leominster, MA Posts: 5,299	Plenty of zoas, shrooms, ricordia and the like would be what I would go with Would take a lot to wipe them out while on vacation. __________________ "A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than you love yourself" ~ Josh Billings Visit My Home page for current build thread (click my user name and select "Visit LordoftheReef's Homepage" in the drop down menu!

01/08/2010, 09:12 AM	#7
Beaun It's pronounced Bone Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: East Hampton, NY Posts: 1,967	I would stick with a two part, like from bulkreefsupply.com, for a 120g tank. When you get in the 180g range is when calcium reactors start becoming more worth the money invested. __________________ -Tyler "The only legitimate use of a computer is to play games." -Eugene Jarvis Current Tank Info: None

01/08/2010, 06:18 PM	#8
jbardwel Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 104	low effort I would in general stay away from sps corals, rather stock your tank with leathers and zoos (Zoos can be very colorful) If you keep the fish biomass low, there will be a lot less work. get a good tight seal on the lid, this will keep water loss to a minimum, there is plenty of gas exchange taking place in the skimmer. To avoid floods I would go sumpless as in my experience floods are usually but not always caused by plumbing problems that can develop while you are away. __________________ Jim

01/08/2010, 07:18 PM	#9
cveverly Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Port Clinton, Oh Posts: 1,470	First I would get a “reef ready” tank and build your own sump unless you can find a used one. Personally I like the biggest sump that will fit under your tank. Do not put a lid on you tank but do put a light diffuser (egg crate) over it. Build your stand higher than normal store bought stands. Mine is a factory stand but it is the tallest one I could find. This height helps when you are working with you skimmer and allows you more choices of skimmers. Get a good skimmer, this is one place you can not skimp. There are good skimmers at reasonable prices but for your size tank expect to spend $350 plus. Lights are your next cost concern. I would get enough light to support SPS because you will want to try them. It is an addiction and no one is immune. I like a blend of T5 and halide but there are a lot of opinions on this. If you go with a softie tank you may not need to supplement your alk and cal. Should you decide to venture into LPS and SPS you will need to supplement. This is an easy 1-2-3 process ONCE your tank has achieved the correct levels of ALK, CAL and MAG. The trick is to dose your display to get the desired levels of supplements. This process my require more of one part than the others. However, once the tank is where you want it just add equal amounts of ALK and CAL supplements. You will also need to add magnesium but not on a daily basis like the ALK and CAL. For a cheap and easy way to dose do it manually. I add the calcium right to my display tank. I mix it with RO water before adding it to the tank. The ALK I like to drip slower and into the sump. I use a plastic beverage bottle. I am guessing it to be about 24 oz. Cut the bottom out of the bottle, drill a hole in the cap just big enough for an soft air line to fit through. Glue the air line in the cap. Support the upside down bottle some place out of the way but easy to access. I put mine inside the door for the stand. Add an air line valve to the other end of the plastic line. This will let you control the drip rate. Put the desired amount of ALK additive into a large glass and fill glass with RO water. Pour mixture of RO and ALK additive into the open end of the bottle. It will slowly drip the diluted ALK mixture into your sump. Magnesium can be added like calcium (see above). The next thing is to have an automatic top off system (ATO). I bought a DIY one from Bulk Reef Supply and use it to control a cheap AquaLifter pump. I have an old wet dry sump that I keep filled with RO water. As the tank evaporates the level drops and the ATO adds fresh RO water to your tank. Some people plumb their RO unit to the sump but I am afraid of something failing. If mine fails the most I can over fill is 4 or 5 gallons. This brings up a point on the sump. Make sure you design your sump to hold all the water that will come from the displays overflows. If not you will have a wet floor when the power goes off. Live rock as the filter. I would watch my local clubs for someone getting out or down sizing and get their live rock. Be sure it is pest free! I also use a reactor from Bulk Reef Supply to run GFO and a second one for carbon. This will help keep toxins out of the water and control phosphates. Buy a RO/DI filter. This is almost a must for a successful reef tank. Have a place to make water for water changes. I use a Brute trash can and bought a dolly for it. I put a heater and pump in it to help keep the water stirred up. The pump also makes it easier to get the water from the trash can to the display or sump. Make sure your new water matches your display. I only test temp, alk and calcium. If you have not fallen asleep reading this I hope it helps. I am sure others will jump in to add things to make a low maintenance system. Last edited by cveverly; 01/08/2010 at 07:24 PM.

01/08/2010, 07:39 PM	#10
cveverly Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Port Clinton, Oh Posts: 1,470	Forgot the most important step. Read ... Study .... Absorb the knowledge of RC ... Plan .... Ask questions ..... Most of all GO SLOWLY!

01/08/2010, 07:45 PM	#11
bnicholson Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Sunshine Coast, BC Posts: 31	Thanks for the reply, I found it very informative. I'm already mostly setup, the 120g was running when I got it so I already have a lot of live rock, I have a homemade sump, a somewhat lousy skimmer (Redsea Berlin Classic), and I recently picked up a 716W Oddysea T5/Halide setup (surprising nice, considering the price) I think my next purchase will be an ro/di unit (Off Melev's Reef, I think) and then an ATO after that. After that, I'm thinking a GFO/Carbon reactor from BRS like you suggested and I'll set up a 2 part system further down the line. Thanks for the help, any other input would be appreciated. __________________ _______________________________ 120G Saltwater with 50g Sump 90G planted South American cichlid tank 30g planted frog & newt tank

01/08/2010, 07:58 PM	#12
cveverly Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Port Clinton, Oh Posts: 1,470	Sounds like you are on the right track. Your skimmer will be fine for a while just keep a low bio-load in the tank until you buy something else.