Having a number of problems - a little discouraged

aquadonkey · 01/15/2010, 12:09 PM

Hi everyone.
So I started cycling my tank on October 16. It's 29g. 28 lbs LR and 3 to 4 inches LS. I added a 15g sump (half of which is refugium) two days ago. I put some sand from the DT into the fuge. The plumbing is working great (the LFS people set up the plumbing for me!). I also got my lights going last Tues - Current Nova Extreme 4x24w.
Problem #1:
I've been getting the same numbers for my water params for months - and not zero!

Temp 80.3
SG 1.0245
Ammonia .17
Nitrite .02
Nitrate 5
PH 8.3

Am I testing wrong? I know my tank had an ammonia spike in week 2! Why is everything not yet zero??

The second problem is newer and not so annoying - I can't figure out my skimmer. I put my new Tunze 9002 into the sump when it started running, and the cup either just fills with water, or the white foam comes most of the way up the tube and sits there. I've never seen a new skimmer in action (or an old one for that matter), but I know there should be some brown stuff, right?

Even smaller thing... I'm having another diatom bloom since I put on the new lights. I'm assuming that will just go away with time.

I guess I'm just discouraged because I really want to start stocking!

Thanks.

HumanIMDB · 01/15/2010, 12:27 PM

It could be that the tests are old and/or giving false results. However, if you're skimmer is not functioning properly and you haven't done any water changes the nutrients might be building up in your system. Do you have chaeto or anything to help pull the nutrients out of the water column?

Sorry that I can't help with the skimmer issue but it sounds like you just need to "dial it in". I'm sure someone on RC is running that model of skimmer and can give you some advice on how to do that.

For the diatom bloom, you may want to run the tank without the lights for a few days. But you'll also need to get the nutrients out of the water column to really stop these outbreaks.

Hope this helps.

w16227 · 01/15/2010, 12:35 PM

Adding the fuge (and moving the sand) could have kicked up enough junk to spike your tests. You do not want to stir a SW sand bed much - especially with a deeper sand bed.

The skimmer may not have enough proteins in the tank to pull much of anything yet. The VERY basics - the foam should rise in the tube - and after a while, the top of the foam will start to look dark. You can then adjust the skimmer for the foam "height" and consistency (air inlet or bubble sizing) so that this overflows into the collection cup. There are many options for adjusting to pull the kind of "skim" you want from the device.

If it has just been put n the tank - give it some time with the foam. Sometimes, they need time to "slime up". I give mine a good cleaning once a month - and it takes some time to get rolling again.

aquadonkey · 01/15/2010, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HumanIMDB

It could be that the tests are old and/or giving false results. However, if you're skimmer is not functioning properly and you haven't done any water changes the nutrients might be building up in your system. Do you have chaeto or anything to help pull the nutrients out of the water column?

Thanks for the help guys. I actually do a 5g water change every two weeks. Don't know if that makes a difference. I did kick up some sand taking it out for the fuge..... maybe that's why I'm not at zero - but I did that Tues. night, so I thought the bacteria should have handled it by now. My last WC was on Monday. Maybe just two many changes at once.

I'll take my water to the LFS tomorrow and have them test it - just that I've never tested zero for ammonia and nitrites in three months.

I'll get some Chaeto as well - I need to go to the hardware store to get a light for the fuge still, that's why I don't have any yet.

aquadonkey · 01/15/2010, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by w16227

The skimmer may not have enough proteins in the tank to pull much of anything yet. The VERY basics - the foam should rise in the tube - and after a while, the top of the foam will start to look dark. You can then adjust the skimmer for the foam "height" and consistency (air inlet or bubble sizing) so that this overflows into the collection cup. There are many options for adjusting to pull the kind of "skim" you want from the device.

I'll take your advice for the skimmer. I'll just let it be for a bit, then try to make small adjustments.
Thanks!

Eleez · 01/15/2010, 12:54 PM

I'm still in research mode, so I don't have a lot of helpful advice. Ijust wanted to say you should stick with it, that 3 months isn't too bad from what I've read, especially since you just changed things around.

As far as experience with skimmers, did the lfs set that up for you too? Do they have any running that you could take a look at to see in action? Do you have a local club you could join and see if a member would show off their set up--or maybe even come and check yours out? Those are the only things I can think of to help with the skimmer issue!

Frick-n-Frags · 01/15/2010, 01:10 PM

after this amount of time, ammonia should be zero. i would suspect the kits.

MrsHaggis · 01/15/2010, 03:01 PM

I have a Tunze Skimmer too - think it might even be the 9002!!

At first when you set it up it's quite had to get the blue screw to the "right" position. First of all, if there are no proteins in the water then the skimmer will just put water into the cup. When that happens we have a tendancy to close the screw a bit because there is too much water in the cup, this causes the foam to rise into the tube but not fall into the cup, so we open the screw a bit and the cup fills up with water again - VERY frustrating.

My advice to you is to leave the screw at a position where the foam is rising up into the tube but the cup is not filling with water, once you add your first fish, or you have your first hair algae bloom (lots of experience here!!) you will see your skimmer starting to skim protein instead of just "water".

Patience is the key. Once you have the foam falling into the cup you have to find the right position for the screw, this can takes weeks/months of tweaking. As you add more and more fish you might have to keep tweaking the screw to draw more foam, and therefore protein, into the cup.

If you have any more questions about the skimmer just let me know.

Cheers
Fiona

MrsHaggis · 01/15/2010, 03:02 PM

I have the 9010 but the old skimmer was the 9002.
Anyways they work in the same way!!

reefienick · 01/15/2010, 03:36 PM

Just a thought on the water. Have you tested your water that you fill the tank with? I found a long time ago that some water I used out of the tap was high in something (sorry do not remember exactly what). But the LFS test should help you alot!

MrsHaggis · 01/15/2010, 03:46 PM

Just two more thoughts:

1. Empty your cup and clean it every day, having a clean tube help with the foam rising.
2. NEVER put your fingers inside the tube, the oil that we have on our skin prevents the foam from rising as well, clean it with the provided brush.

cwegescheide · 01/15/2010, 03:55 PM

Also if I were you I'd make your own RO water if you don't already. Most LFS's don't change their membranes often enough to have the best quality water. I don't think your tests are too far off either. As a matter of a fact I think you should be good to go for a few softies and polyps. I think acros look better with just a touch of trates in the water too. 5ppm is fine I think. Don't want it to go much higher though. Get good quality FRESH test kits too.

Yes, your diatom bloom is because you changed your lighting I'd be willing to bet. It should subside in a month or so if you keep up with your maintanence.

Never use tap water. There is all kinds of nasty crap - nitrates being one of them..

aquadonkey · 01/15/2010, 04:10 PM

Update:

I just got back from the LFS. They tested my water for me and told me it was perfect. They used the same kit that I have (which I bought from them). The readings were exactly what I was getting and his explanation was that these tests (Red Sea) aren't as accurate as the more expensive ones and the fact that I had been getting the same reading (a little above 0) for so long meant that my tank is fine and fully cycled. I'm willing to take their word for it on this because they've been very helpful and have a number of gorgeous tanks in the store. So - good news!

Thanks Fiona for your helpful skimmer advice! I thought I was doing something wrong, but hearing that it usually does take a little while to get working is encouraging.

I bought some Chaeto, a conch and a pep shrimp (aptasia is loving the new lights). I'm so excited! They're acclimating right now.
If everything continues to look stable, I'll bring home another couple shrimp next week and start (slowly) with fish and coral the week after!

Thanks everyone!

seattlerob · 01/15/2010, 04:13 PM

I have no idea how you've managed to have a new tank up for 3 months without stocking it with something....you have WAY more patience than me

All kidding aside, good luck on your new tank!

Rob

aquadonkey · 01/15/2010, 04:58 PM

Thanks Rob

I really love my new critters! I named the shrimp Mustard - I can't believe how facile he is! Just zooming around in the tank checking everything out. The conch is going to be called Cheese. She's really great too with her alien eyeballs and trunk!

Quick question - how long should I leave the lights out?

mandingCa · 01/15/2010, 06:10 PM

The diatom blooms are normal.

Be cautious with your water params...smaller tanks are notorious for changing salinity, temp or something else in a hurry.

STABILITY is everything. Be patient...the diatoms will reside after a while.

01/15/2010, 12:27 PM	#2
HumanIMDB Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Winnipeg, MB Posts: 1,556	It could be that the tests are old and/or giving false results. However, if you're skimmer is not functioning properly and you haven't done any water changes the nutrients might be building up in your system. Do you have chaeto or anything to help pull the nutrients out of the water column? Sorry that I can't help with the skimmer issue but it sounds like you just need to "dial it in". I'm sure someone on RC is running that model of skimmer and can give you some advice on how to do that. For the diatom bloom, you may want to run the tank without the lights for a few days. But you'll also need to get the nutrients out of the water column to really stop these outbreaks. Hope this helps. __________________ Chris Rivers Will do computer support for frags. :) Click on the Red House to see our AGA92 Corner Reef Tank Build thread. Current Tank Info: 10 Gal (Aqualight 96W Quad 50/50, AquaClear Power Filter 70 with Chaeto lit by 6500K Bulb, AquaClear Power Head 20, 50w Tronic Heater), 92 Gal All-Glass Corner (Cycling)

01/15/2010, 12:35 PM	#3
w16227 Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: chicago Burbs Posts: 479	Adding the fuge (and moving the sand) could have kicked up enough junk to spike your tests. You do not want to stir a SW sand bed much - especially with a deeper sand bed. The skimmer may not have enough proteins in the tank to pull much of anything yet. The VERY basics - the foam should rise in the tube - and after a while, the top of the foam will start to look dark. You can then adjust the skimmer for the foam "height" and consistency (air inlet or bubble sizing) so that this overflows into the collection cup. There are many options for adjusting to pull the kind of "skim" you want from the device. If it has just been put n the tank - give it some time with the foam. Sometimes, they need time to "slime up". I give mine a good cleaning once a month - and it takes some time to get rolling again. __________________ call me "w" - easier to remember Current Tank Info: 125g All Glass rr, 50g sump/fuge, RKE, T5 Retrofit Lights, Deltec Turbo Skimmer, PM Kalk Reactor

01/15/2010, 01:10 PM	#7
Frick-n-Frags Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: north central OH Posts: 10,740	after this amount of time, ammonia should be zero. i would suspect the kits. __________________ Only Dead fish swim with the current. Current Tank Info: 2 50 gal tanks, sump, still BB

01/15/2010, 03:01 PM	#8
MrsHaggis Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: St Louis, France Posts: 675	I have a Tunze Skimmer too - think it might even be the 9002!! At first when you set it up it's quite had to get the blue screw to the "right" position. First of all, if there are no proteins in the water then the skimmer will just put water into the cup. When that happens we have a tendancy to close the screw a bit because there is too much water in the cup, this causes the foam to rise into the tube but not fall into the cup, so we open the screw a bit and the cup fills up with water again - VERY frustrating. My advice to you is to leave the screw at a position where the foam is rising up into the tube but the cup is not filling with water, once you add your first fish, or you have your first hair algae bloom (lots of experience here!!) you will see your skimmer starting to skim protein instead of just "water". Patience is the key. Once you have the foam falling into the cup you have to find the right position for the screw, this can takes weeks/months of tweaking. As you add more and more fish you might have to keep tweaking the screw to draw more foam, and therefore protein, into the cup. If you have any more questions about the skimmer just let me know. Cheers Fiona __________________ Nothing scarier than a clown!! ----------------------------- 1 ClownFish 1 SixLine Wrasse 1 Foxface Rabbitfish Mushrooms Long Polyp Leather Green Anchor Coral Zoanthids Trumpet Coral Goniopora Current Tank Info: 360 litre (95 US Gallons), Tunze DOC Skimmer 9010, Lights: Metal Halide 250 Watt and 2x24 Watt Moon Lights, Tunze MultiController 7095

01/15/2010, 03:02 PM	#9
MrsHaggis Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: St Louis, France Posts: 675	I have the 9010 but the old skimmer was the 9002. Anyways they work in the same way!! __________________ Nothing scarier than a clown!! ----------------------------- 1 ClownFish 1 SixLine Wrasse 1 Foxface Rabbitfish Mushrooms Long Polyp Leather Green Anchor Coral Zoanthids Trumpet Coral Goniopora Current Tank Info: 360 litre (95 US Gallons), Tunze DOC Skimmer 9010, Lights: Metal Halide 250 Watt and 2x24 Watt Moon Lights, Tunze MultiController 7095

01/15/2010, 12:09 PM	#1
aquadonkey Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 1,253	Having a number of problems - a little discouraged Hi everyone. So I started cycling my tank on October 16. It's 29g. 28 lbs LR and 3 to 4 inches LS. I added a 15g sump (half of which is refugium) two days ago. I put some sand from the DT into the fuge. The plumbing is working great (the LFS people set up the plumbing for me!). I also got my lights going last Tues - Current Nova Extreme 4x24w. Problem #1: I've been getting the same numbers for my water params for months - and not zero! Temp 80.3 SG 1.0245 Ammonia .17 Nitrite .02 Nitrate 5 PH 8.3 Am I testing wrong? I know my tank had an ammonia spike in week 2! Why is everything not yet zero?? The second problem is newer and not so annoying - I can't figure out my skimmer. I put my new Tunze 9002 into the sump when it started running, and the cup either just fills with water, or the white foam comes most of the way up the tube and sits there. I've never seen a new skimmer in action (or an old one for that matter), but I know there should be some brown stuff, right? Even smaller thing... I'm having another diatom bloom since I put on the new lights. I'm assuming that will just go away with time. I guess I'm just discouraged because I really want to start stocking! Thanks.

01/15/2010, 12:54 PM	#6
Eleez Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 34	I'm still in research mode, so I don't have a lot of helpful advice. Ijust wanted to say you should stick with it, that 3 months isn't too bad from what I've read, especially since you just changed things around. As far as experience with skimmers, did the lfs set that up for you too? Do they have any running that you could take a look at to see in action? Do you have a local club you could join and see if a member would show off their set up--or maybe even come and check yours out? Those are the only things I can think of to help with the skimmer issue!

01/15/2010, 03:36 PM	#10
reefienick Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 39	Just a thought on the water. Have you tested your water that you fill the tank with? I found a long time ago that some water I used out of the tap was high in something (sorry do not remember exactly what). But the LFS test should help you alot!

01/15/2010, 03:46 PM	#11
MrsHaggis Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: St Louis, France Posts: 675	Just two more thoughts: 1. Empty your cup and clean it every day, having a clean tube help with the foam rising. 2. NEVER put your fingers inside the tube, the oil that we have on our skin prevents the foam from rising as well, clean it with the provided brush. __________________ Nothing scarier than a clown!! ----------------------------- 1 ClownFish 1 SixLine Wrasse 1 Foxface Rabbitfish Mushrooms Long Polyp Leather Green Anchor Coral Zoanthids Trumpet Coral Goniopora Current Tank Info: 360 litre (95 US Gallons), Tunze DOC Skimmer 9010, Lights: Metal Halide 250 Watt and 2x24 Watt Moon Lights, Tunze MultiController 7095

01/15/2010, 03:55 PM	#12
cwegescheide YOU have been ignored! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Tampa, Florida Posts: 5,231	Also if I were you I'd make your own RO water if you don't already. Most LFS's don't change their membranes often enough to have the best quality water. I don't think your tests are too far off either. As a matter of a fact I think you should be good to go for a few softies and polyps. I think acros look better with just a touch of trates in the water too. 5ppm is fine I think. Don't want it to go much higher though. Get good quality FRESH test kits too. Yes, your diatom bloom is because you changed your lighting I'd be willing to bet. It should subside in a month or so if you keep up with your maintanence. Never use tap water. There is all kinds of nasty crap - nitrates being one of them..

01/15/2010, 04:10 PM	#13
aquadonkey Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 1,253	Update: I just got back from the LFS. They tested my water for me and told me it was perfect. They used the same kit that I have (which I bought from them). The readings were exactly what I was getting and his explanation was that these tests (Red Sea) aren't as accurate as the more expensive ones and the fact that I had been getting the same reading (a little above 0) for so long meant that my tank is fine and fully cycled. I'm willing to take their word for it on this because they've been very helpful and have a number of gorgeous tanks in the store. So - good news! Thanks Fiona for your helpful skimmer advice! I thought I was doing something wrong, but hearing that it usually does take a little while to get working is encouraging. I bought some Chaeto, a conch and a pep shrimp (aptasia is loving the new lights). I'm so excited! They're acclimating right now. If everything continues to look stable, I'll bring home another couple shrimp next week and start (slowly) with fish and coral the week after! Thanks everyone!

01/15/2010, 04:13 PM	#14
seattlerob Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 464	I have no idea how you've managed to have a new tank up for 3 months without stocking it with something....you have WAY more patience than me All kidding aside, good luck on your new tank! Rob

01/15/2010, 04:58 PM	#15
aquadonkey Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 1,253	Thanks Rob I really love my new critters! I named the shrimp Mustard - I can't believe how facile he is! Just zooming around in the tank checking everything out. The conch is going to be called Cheese. She's really great too with her alien eyeballs and trunk! Quick question - how long should I leave the lights out? Last edited by aquadonkey; 01/15/2010 at 05:01 PM. Reason: oops - forgot my question

01/15/2010, 06:10 PM	#16
mandingCa Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 119	The diatom blooms are normal. Be cautious with your water params...smaller tanks are notorious for changing salinity, temp or something else in a hurry. STABILITY is everything. Be patient...the diatoms will reside after a while.