Looking for thoughts on High Nitrates

spatten · 02/02/2010, 02:41 PM

Guys,

Just looking for a little input here. My 55 gallon tank has been up and running for about a month.

I"m holding steady with 0 Ammonia and 0 Nitrates but reading 20ppm Nitrate.
From what I've read I don't think this is emergency get - but I should try and get it down. I've been seeing a rust-colored crusting on the powerheads (guessing it is algae?)...

My plan is:

1) reduce feeding. Been alternating between pellets, flakes and frozen brine shripm 3x/day.

2) replace filter pad and GAC in canister filter in case it is acting as a source of nitrate.

3)???

Does this seem reasonable? Please note that I have no sump to add a refugium

TIA,
Scott

Specs:
55 gallons, Superskimmer, MarineLand 350 Canister Filter (with GAC). In the tank are 50 lbs of LR, 2 Chromis, 1 False Percula, 2 peppermint shrimp, and 12blue-legged crabs.

mcoomer · 02/02/2010, 03:40 PM

Nitrates at 20ppm is not a catastrophe, an certainly not in a new tank. We're probably going to need some more info though before we can help you on a course of action. What kind of filtration are you using right now? You said you're using a filter pad. Is that in a drip tray over bio balls by chance? If so, that could be one source of you nitrates. How much live rock is in your system? Was it fully cured when you added it? Are you running a sandbed? What kind of maintenance are you doing and how often?

Give us some more details and we'll try to help you out.

Mike

Jstdv8 · 02/02/2010, 03:45 PM

did you say you are feeding three times a day? or once every three days?

mudskipper1 · 02/02/2010, 03:50 PM

yeah, most reefers feed once a day, or once every other day, so 3 times a day is an awful lot and fish food often is high in nitrates and phosphates

Madratter · 02/02/2010, 04:00 PM

How much water have you been changing each week? And by all means cut down on the feeding.

Basically, you are adding nitrates with your feeding it. You are exporting nitrates with your water changes. You are also exporting stuff that could become nitrates with your skimming. (You might possibly be exporting some through denitrification in the sand bed and live rock but at this point, probably not much).

Depending on the rates these things are occurring you will reach some equilibrium level. If you want a lower level, you either need to slow down import (less feeding) or up export (larger water changes, better skimmer, etc.)

Also, it is far from inconceivable that your source water has nitrates in it to start off with. What are you using for source water? If it isn't a known good source like RO/DI, I would suggest testing it also.

wooden_reefer · 02/02/2010, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spatten

Guys,

2) replace filter pad and GAC in canister filter in case it is acting as a source of nitrate.

Does this seem reasonable?

Can you explain to yourself why old filter pad and GAC in Canister filter are a source of nitrate?

Denitrification occurs better in moderately deoxygenated water with some organic carbon.

rale2001 · 02/02/2010, 05:39 PM

20 ppm nitrates won't crash ur tank. I have a canister filter and I can't get no lower then 15 ppm I do have mild grey hair algae growth on my sand and I don't have a skimmer yet. I was stuck at 20 ppm for 6 mons on my tank and when I changed my feeding habits and changed my lighting sched they dropped to 15 ppm in a week. I rinse out my sponge fill the canister with fresh water. I don't clean the walls of the canister and I don't touch my ceramic rings and my fish and inverts are happy. I've had my coral banded shrimp for 2 mons and he has moulted 2x. This is just how I've been doing things and havnt had major problems in my tanks 9 mons of running.

spatten · 02/02/2010, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcoomer

Nitrates at 20ppm is not a catastrophe, an certainly not in a new tank. We're probably going to need some more info though before we can help you on a course of action. What kind of filtration are you using right now? You said you're using a filter pad. Is that in a drip tray over bio balls by chance? If so, that could be one source of you nitrates. How much live rock is in your system? Was it fully cured when you added it? Are you running a sandbed? What kind of maintenance are you doing and how often?

Give us some more details and we'll try to help you out.

Mike

Thanks for all the input guys. Here are some additional details.

The filter is a canister filter with a filter tube and GAC. Manuf. Recommendation is to change every 2-4 weeks. I haven't changed yet, was hoping to cut costs and change every month.

There are 50 lbs of live rock, all pre-cured - was only out of water for about 2 hours.

My sandbed is Aragonite and is only about 1" thick.

I have been feeding three times per day (some only two). This is based on a handbook that said Chromis like many small meals per day (but it's quite possible I'm mistaking what a small meal should be).

My plan for water changes was 10% every two weeks. I have only performed one of these so far - next one is coming up in a couple days.

All water added to the tank comes from a RO machine (no DI).

Quote:

Originally Posted by wooden_reefer

Can you explain to yourself why old filter pad and GAC in Canister filter are a source of nitrate?

Denitrification occurs better in moderately deoxygenated water with some organic carbon.

I had read that filters can cause nitrate problems and was extrapoloating. Can you expand on what I should do with the filter? Thanks

golfish · 02/02/2010, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spatten

2) replace filter pad and GAC in canister filter in case it is acting as a source of nitrate.

3)???

IMO, I'd get rid of all of the canister filter, its not needed

wooden_reefer · 02/02/2010, 06:41 PM

"Can you expand on what I should do with the filter?"

If it is biological filter medium, it should not need to be changed.

If it is chemical, it should be.

Nitrate comes from the protein food we place for the sake of the livestock.

It is best to set up conditions favorable to denitrification bacteria, which need moderately low oxygenation and an organic carbon source.

bertoni · 02/02/2010, 09:23 PM

It's possible that the biological media in the canister is adding to the nitrate problem. I'd consider removing it, preferably slowly. A sudden removal might cause an ammonia spike. Change the carbon once a month is a good idea, too.

salt4life8 · 02/03/2010, 01:04 AM

Just an FYI: My nitrates are really high, about 160ppm, yes 160ppm, because of my bioballs and bad sand quality in my biocube and I do regular water changes and they are still very high, only feed once a day every other day. (even have a lot of sand sifting snails and a brittle star) My fish are doing great, even in breeding condition, and all my corals are doing really well and staying in color/growing, all my inverts are in great condition, of course everyone says that 0 nitrates is your goal (its still mine) but I don't think nitrates are AS bad as people say they are. so if your nitrates are a little high, its not that big of a deal and nothing to worry about. try to get them down but I doubt it will cause major problems.
* do agree that canister filters do cause a rise in nitrates so make sure to keep the pads clean.

Jstdv8 · 02/03/2010, 01:22 AM

Ive never had chromis so I don't know thier specific needs, but I feed my fish once every three days.

02/02/2010, 02:41 PM	#1
spatten Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 17	Looking for thoughts on High Nitrates Guys, Just looking for a little input here. My 55 gallon tank has been up and running for about a month. I"m holding steady with 0 Ammonia and 0 Nitrates but reading 20ppm Nitrate. From what I've read I don't think this is emergency get - but I should try and get it down. I've been seeing a rust-colored crusting on the powerheads (guessing it is algae?)... My plan is: 1) reduce feeding. Been alternating between pellets, flakes and frozen brine shripm 3x/day. 2) replace filter pad and GAC in canister filter in case it is acting as a source of nitrate. 3)??? Does this seem reasonable? Please note that I have no sump to add a refugium TIA, Scott Specs: 55 gallons, Superskimmer, MarineLand 350 Canister Filter (with GAC). In the tank are 50 lbs of LR, 2 Chromis, 1 False Percula, 2 peppermint shrimp, and 12blue-legged crabs. Last edited by spatten; 02/02/2010 at 03:00 PM.

02/02/2010, 03:40 PM	#2
mcoomer Rat Bastard! Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sammamish, WA Posts: 1,487	Nitrates at 20ppm is not a catastrophe, an certainly not in a new tank. We're probably going to need some more info though before we can help you on a course of action. What kind of filtration are you using right now? You said you're using a filter pad. Is that in a drip tray over bio balls by chance? If so, that could be one source of you nitrates. How much live rock is in your system? Was it fully cured when you added it? Are you running a sandbed? What kind of maintenance are you doing and how often? Give us some more details and we'll try to help you out. Mike __________________ Spending exorbitant amounts of money on this hobby since 1998! My wife thought the tank would be cheaper and easier to keep than a dog...no seriously! Current Tank Info: 180 gallon mixed reef; Reeflo Barracuda, Tunze 6105 (X3), 250W Radiums with dual HQI Blue Wave 7, Reefkeeper Elite controller, custom sump with ASM G4, carbon and GFO reactors

02/02/2010, 03:50 PM	#4
mudskipper1 Trust Me I'm an Engineer Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan Posts: 1,085	yeah, most reefers feed once a day, or once every other day, so 3 times a day is an awful lot and fish food often is high in nitrates and phosphates __________________ -Eric kazyakphoto.zenfolio.com Current Tank Info: 11 gallon DIY acrylic cube and 20L displays plumbed to a single sump, Kessil, Onyx, MP10, RKL

02/02/2010, 09:23 PM	#11
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	It's possible that the biological media in the canister is adding to the nitrate problem. I'd consider removing it, preferably slowly. A sudden removal might cause an ammonia spike. Change the carbon once a month is a good idea, too. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

02/02/2010, 03:45 PM	#3
Jstdv8 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Wasilla, Alaska Posts: 1,420	did you say you are feeding three times a day? or once every three days?

02/02/2010, 04:00 PM	#5
Madratter Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 223	How much water have you been changing each week? And by all means cut down on the feeding. Basically, you are adding nitrates with your feeding it. You are exporting nitrates with your water changes. You are also exporting stuff that could become nitrates with your skimming. (You might possibly be exporting some through denitrification in the sand bed and live rock but at this point, probably not much). Depending on the rates these things are occurring you will reach some equilibrium level. If you want a lower level, you either need to slow down import (less feeding) or up export (larger water changes, better skimmer, etc.) Also, it is far from inconceivable that your source water has nitrates in it to start off with. What are you using for source water? If it isn't a known good source like RO/DI, I would suggest testing it also.

02/02/2010, 05:39 PM	#7
rale2001 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Memphis, Tn Posts: 429	20 ppm nitrates won't crash ur tank. I have a canister filter and I can't get no lower then 15 ppm I do have mild grey hair algae growth on my sand and I don't have a skimmer yet. I was stuck at 20 ppm for 6 mons on my tank and when I changed my feeding habits and changed my lighting sched they dropped to 15 ppm in a week. I rinse out my sponge fill the canister with fresh water. I don't clean the walls of the canister and I don't touch my ceramic rings and my fish and inverts are happy. I've had my coral banded shrimp for 2 mons and he has moulted 2x. This is just how I've been doing things and havnt had major problems in my tanks 9 mons of running.

02/02/2010, 06:41 PM	#10
wooden_reefer Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 4,670	"Can you expand on what I should do with the filter?" If it is biological filter medium, it should not need to be changed. If it is chemical, it should be. Nitrate comes from the protein food we place for the sake of the livestock. It is best to set up conditions favorable to denitrification bacteria, which need moderately low oxygenation and an organic carbon source.

02/03/2010, 01:04 AM	#12
salt4life8 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: RI Posts: 99	Just an FYI: My nitrates are really high, about 160ppm, yes 160ppm, because of my bioballs and bad sand quality in my biocube and I do regular water changes and they are still very high, only feed once a day every other day. (even have a lot of sand sifting snails and a brittle star) My fish are doing great, even in breeding condition, and all my corals are doing really well and staying in color/growing, all my inverts are in great condition, of course everyone says that 0 nitrates is your goal (its still mine) but I don't think nitrates are AS bad as people say they are. so if your nitrates are a little high, its not that big of a deal and nothing to worry about. try to get them down but I doubt it will cause major problems. * do agree that canister filters do cause a rise in nitrates so make sure to keep the pads clean.

02/03/2010, 01:22 AM	#13
Jstdv8 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Wasilla, Alaska Posts: 1,420	Ive never had chromis so I don't know thier specific needs, but I feed my fish once every three days.