Hypo in QT tank...

[Reefer2727]

Hi All,

I currently just have a pair of Black Clowns in my 75 gallon DT. I am ready for some new additions. I want to stay in a good QT habit and make sure everything that goes into my DT is healthy. (And mainly ichless).

I had read that it is good to assume that every new fish you have is at the very least a carrier of ich and to treat it as though it has ich. Healthy or not. Is this a good idea? I would imagine that it is possible for a fish to show no signs of ich for a 4-6 weeks in QT and then outbreak once it is in the DT due to stress.

I prefer hypo to copper treatment as it seems as though it may be easier on the fish. Are there any fish that we should not put in Hypo conditions? My next few fish will be little guys. Some sort of Goby (Probably Green) and something else small. Are Gobies ok to hypo?

Am I being too careful here and causing more harm than good when potentially treating a perfectly healthy fish?

Also, I have read that a fish can be introduced into low hypo conditions without bringing it down slowly. Eg. Going from 1.025 to say 1.017 then to 1.009. I know they need to be brought up to normal slat levels slower but can I drop it faster to save on some time and water changes?

Thanks in advance

[ihavtats29]

my self i would do it slowly, taking the time to do it right is the key to this hobby, when you start to rush things you will have 1 big headache

[BiGGSUk]

Wouldnt do Hypo with common clownfish I lost 2 & I bought the salinity down very slowly.

I agree with the above do things extremley slowly.

[Reefer2727]

What about gobies? Do they take hypo ok? Are they prone to ich or should I just QT them and watch?

[wooden_reefer]

Originally Posted by Reefer2727

Hi All,

I currently just have a pair of Black Clowns in my 75 gallon DT. I am ready for some new additions. I want to stay in a good QT habit and make sure everything that goes into my DT is healthy. (And mainly ichless).

I had read that it is good to assume that every new fish you have is at the very least a carrier of ich and to treat it as though it has ich. Healthy or not. Is this a good idea? I would imagine that it is possible for a fish to show no signs of ich for a 4-6 weeks in QT and then outbreak once it is in the DT due to stress.

I prefer hypo to copper treatment as it seems as though it may be easier on the fish. Are there any fish that we should not put in Hypo conditions? My next few fish will be little guys. Some sort of Goby (Probably Green) and something else small. Are Gobies ok to hypo?

Am I being too careful here and causing more harm than good when potentially treating a perfectly healthy fish?

Also, I have read that a fish can be introduced into low hypo conditions without bringing it down slowly. Eg. Going from 1.025 to say 1.017 then to 1.009. I know they need to be brought up to normal slat levels slower but can I drop it faster to save on some time and water changes?

Thanks in advance

Doing things slowly is not always good.

How long have you added the two clowns in the DT? If it has been months after the cycle (if you had a nice cycle), the available nitrification activity will have decreased to match the low bioload in the tank now.

You have not mentioned how you are going to rid the QT of ammonia during QT.

And, you cannot assume that after QT your transfer the tang to the DT the DT will have enough nitrification activity to not have re-cycling.

Two major considerations are missing in your post.

[brubinfeld]

hypoo tang is a very sensitvie fish and wil get ick very easy so be carefull in choosing your fish as this could get very expensive very quickly

[Reefer2727]

Originally Posted by wooden_reefer

Doing things slowly is not always good.

How long have you added the two clowns in the DT? If it has been months after the cycle (if you had a nice cycle), the available nitrification activity will have decreased to match the low bioload in the tank now.

You have not mentioned how you are going to rid the QT of ammonia during QT.

And, you cannot assume that after QT your transfer the tang to the DT the DT will have enough nitrification activity to not have re-cycling.

Two major considerations are missing in your post.

The clowns have been in the DT for about 2.5 months. Tank has been running for about 6 months. I have had lots of snails and shrimps and soft corals in there for about 4 months. I really didn't see much of a cycle in my DT because I used about 80 Lbs of live rock from a former set up. The parameters have been consistently:

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0

As far as the QT tank goes. I am currently cycling it using the shrimp method. I have filtration on the tank that has foam in it that I had in my DT sump.

When the QT is fully cycled I will be adding perhaps a couple of small gobies and a blenny. I am hoping that the DT will have the nitrifying bacteria necessary to handle a few more fish. I have always read that slower is better. Add a fish at a time and the bacteria will slowly increase with the bioload.

My main question in this post was should I be treating every new fish in quarantine as though they have ich even if they appear to be healthy. Treating using hypo or copper.

I am pretty confident that my near 100 gallon total system has enough bacteria to handle 2 or 3 small fish like gobies and blennies.

[Mrbeachbum2]

This is an interesting topic.

Some, including my LFS, QT their fish and take action as if they do have Ich. Specifically, they have the salinity at 1.010, treat with copper and slowly raise the salinity to their display tanks. They, however, do this for only 1 wk. Most will do QT longer, but they are a business.

The other side is, to QT at a "normal" salinity and treat if you see any evidence- this maybe too late.

However, if you slowly go into hyposalinity, ich may adjust. This falls under the same concepts as freshwater dips.

[Reefer2727]

So they a combination of hypo and copper treatment? I had always thought doing both was a no no. But like anything in this hobby there are a million different opinions and theories.

I am looking for a failsafe method of quarantining and making sure that the fish are healthy as the enter the DT. Perhaps a hypo and copper combo for longer than the week that the LFS does it would be effective. Anyone else combine copper and hypo ?

[wooden_reefer]

Originally Posted by Reefer2727

When the QT is fully cycled I will be adding perhaps a couple of small gobies and a blenny. I am hoping that the DT will have the nitrifying bacteria necessary to handle a few more fish. I have always read that slower is better. Add a fish at a time and the bacteria will slowly increase with the bioload.

Instead of just hoping it is better to make sure. The unit of bioload is not the fish, it is the mass of fish. You cannot always just add one fish at a time slowly and expect there to be no re-cycling. It depends on the fractional increase in bioload whenever you add new livestock. I'd say up to about 20% sudden increase in bioload, not fish count necessary, can be handled with more careful feeding afterward.

Every time a fish doubles in length, the bioload is 8-fold increase. When you consider 20% increase in bioload, you will have to consider this.

What about ammonia in QT? How are you ridding of it?

[wooden_reefer]

Originally Posted by Reefer2727

The clowns have been in the DT for about 2.5 months. Tank has been running for about 6 months. I have had lots of snails and shrimps and soft corals in there for about 4 months. I really didn't see much of a cycle in my DT because I used about 80 Lbs of live rock from a former set up. The parameters have been consistently:

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0

As far as the QT tank goes. I am currently cycling it using the shrimp method. I have filtration on the tank that has foam in it that I had in my DT sump.

When the QT is fully cycled I will be adding perhaps a couple of small gobies and a blenny. I am hoping that the DT will have the nitrifying bacteria necessary to handle a few more fish. I have always read that slower is better. Add a fish at a time and the bacteria will slowly increase with the bioload.

My main question in this post was should I be treating every new fish in quarantine as though they have ich even if they appear to be healthy. Treating using hypo or copper.

I am pretty confident that my near 100 gallon total system has enough bacteria to handle 2 or 3 small fish like gobies and blennies.

Instead of just hoping it is better to make sure. The unit of bioload is not the fish, it is the mass of fish. You cannot always just add one fish at a time slowly and expect there to be no re-cycling. It depends on the fractional increase in bioload whenever you add new livestock. I'd say up to about 20% sudden increase in bioload, not fish count necessarily, can be handled with more careful feeding afterward.

Every time a fish doubles in length, the bioload is 8-fold increase. When you consider 20% increase in bioload, you will have to consider this.


The history of a cycle is important for some period after which nitrification activity equilbrium with the bioload will be reached. There is indeed a window after a cycle or higher bioload before such equilbrium is reached, a few weeks to a couple of months. You may have exceeded that window, perhaps.

What about ammonia in QT? How are you ridding of it?

[Reefer2727]

Originally Posted by wooden_reefer

Instead of just hoping it is better to make sure. The unit of bioload is not the fish, it is the mass of fish. You cannot always just add one fish at a time slowly and expect there to be no re-cycling. It depends on the fractional increase in bioload whenever you add new livestock. I'd say up to about 20% sudden increase in bioload, not fish count necessary, can be handled with more careful feeding afterward.

Every time a fish doubles in length, the bioload is 8-fold increase. When you consider 20% increase in bioload, you will have to consider this.

What about ammonia in QT? How are you ridding of it?

The QT tank is cycling. Ammonia has spiked due to the shrimp breaking down and I will let the bacteria build up and take care of the ammonia. I wont be getting any fish for the QT until it is fully cycled. Am I doing something wrong here?

[Mrbeachbum2]

Originally Posted by Reefer2727

So they a combination of hypo and copper treatment? I had always thought doing both was a no no. But like anything in this hobby there are a million different opinions and theories.

I am looking for a failsafe method of quarantining and making sure that the fish are healthy as the enter the DT. Perhaps a hypo and copper combo for longer than the week that the LFS does it would be effective. Anyone else combine copper and hypo ?

They have the fish in hypo, then dose with copper 24 hours later.

[Reefer2727]

Wooden Reefer,

You say....

Instead of just hoping it is better to make sure. The unit of bioload is not the fish, it is the mass of fish. You cannot always just add one fish at a time slowly and expect there to be no re-cycling. It depends on the fractional increase in bioload whenever you add new livestock. I'd say up to about 20% sudden increase in bioload, not fish count necessarily, can be handled with more careful feeding afterward.

Tell me how to make sure.

[Reefer2727]

Originally Posted by Mrbeachbum2

They have the fish in hypo, then dose with copper 24 hours later.

So they bring them down into hypo conditions....then they copper them while still at the low salinity or is this after they have been brought back up to a normal salt level?

[wooden_reefer]

Originally Posted by Reefer2727

Wooden Reefer,

You say....

Instead of just hoping it is better to make sure. The unit of bioload is not the fish, it is the mass of fish. You cannot always just add one fish at a time slowly and expect there to be no re-cycling. It depends on the fractional increase in bioload whenever you add new livestock. I'd say up to about 20% sudden increase in bioload, not fish count necessarily, can be handled with more careful feeding afterward.

Tell me how to make sure.

If you are already cycling a medium for QT, you are a step ahead. Just be mindful that the cycled medium you used in QT, you have been using in hypo and brought back to higher salinity, is ready to be used in DT. Just allow the DT return water to drip over or at least flow around it.

Don't dump the QT cycled medium or otherwise make it unfit as an addition to DT later, you may need it. In fact, you should use it in DT to make sure there will be no re-cycling whatsoever.

Or cycle another medium separately using another container if you have more fish to QT and add to DT in mind.

[wooden_reefer]

Originally Posted by Reefer2727

Wooden Reefer,

You say....

Instead of just hoping it is better to make sure. The unit of bioload is not the fish, it is the mass of fish. You cannot always just add one fish at a time slowly and expect there to be no re-cycling. It depends on the fractional increase in bioload whenever you add new livestock. I'd say up to about 20% sudden increase in bioload, not fish count necessarily, can be handled with more careful feeding afterward.

Tell me how to make sure.

If you are already cycling in QT, you are a step ahead. Just be mindful that the cycled medium you used in QT, you have been using in hypo and brought back to higher salinity, is ready to be used in DT. Just allow the DT return water to drip over or at least flow around it. With copper it might be more difficult to do so as one fears contaminating the DT with little bit of copper.

Don't dump the QT cycled medium or otherwise make it unfit as an addition to DT later, you may need it. In fact, you should use it in DT to make sure there will be no re-cycling whatsoever. WIthdraw the medium slowly about 15% biweekly to compel the LR to take over filtration incrementally.

Or cycle another medium separately using another container if you have more fish to QT and add to DT in mind.

[Reefer2727]

Wooden Reefer,

I plan on keeping my QT running all the time. Also, in case I do end up using copper I want to play it safe. So perhaps I should just cycle some more media in a bucket. By the time I get the new fish and QT them for a month the bucket media should be cycled and ready to help with the extra bioload in the DT.

So, can I just use a small HOB filter on the side of a bucket? Is foam the best media under these circumstances? And should I just toss a raw shrimp in the bucket and let it be? 5 weeks or so later the media should be cycled?

Once my piece of foam is cycled....Can I just toss it into the return section of my sump? Or should I put it in the overflow box on my DT?

Also, I am a little confused by your statement..."WIthdraw the medium slowly about 15% biweekly to compel the LR to take over filtration incrementally."

How do I withdraw the medium 15% biweekly? Is my medium not a piece of foam or am I missing something here?

Thanks again for your help.