How do I prevent a flood and prevent burning out a pump?

Dhub · 03/10/2010, 07:49 PM

I have a 2 75g non-RR tanks. Both are Aqueon 75E so the bottoms are tempered and can't be drilled. I am using one 75 as a sump -which may be over kill for a 75g display but I don't like the hang on the back Octpus 800 on the display nor do I like the heater etc showing. So here I am, trying to SW with non-reef ready tanks.

Here's the issue - I thought I would set the overflow coming off the DT to feed into a section of the sump that would feed the octopus800 - then over flow into a dsb refug then overflow into a section that houses a pump for return. My problem is... what happens when I'm out of town and the power goes off? The pump stops - the manual over-flow keeps syphoning off the display until if fall below the overflow fill cup. No problem right? Then the power comes on and pumps 25g of water into the display - running all over the floor and continues to run dry until it burns out the pump.

Is there some way to prevent this? can I use a manual overflow to feed the sump and a manual overflow to return feed the display? What is my best course of action?

TIA!

Chiefsurfer · 03/10/2010, 08:12 PM

well first of all, the bottom can't be drilled, but what about the sides? Many tanks are only tempered on the bottom, and can be drilled from the side. You can do an overflow like this, no issues with power outages.

If you want to use the syphon boxes, this is how it should work:

In the attached picture, yellow is your Display tank Water-level. In the overflow box, blue is the water-level during a power outage. The red line denotes the "baffle" in the outside part of the overflow box. Basically, water wants to EQUALIZE. That's how a syphon will work, it wants to equalize the water, so water flows through the syphon to the other side, dropping one, raising the other. The outer part of the overflow box will overflow and drain to the sump until both the part INSIDE the tank, and outside are level, AND the water outside the tank reaches the baffle and stops overflowing. This should be achieved while leaving both sides of the syphon tube completely under-water, and syphon tube primed all the time. Does this happen in the real world, most-likely no. These have many issues, not the least of which having loss of syphon issues due to micro-bubbles accumulating in the syphon tube.

ludnix · 03/10/2010, 09:13 PM

I would look into drilling the sides, the piece of mind a non-siphon overflow can provide is worth the risk a thousand times over.

sassyfrassy · 03/11/2010, 10:00 AM

Is it possible to drill the side of an established tank?

Chiefsurfer · 03/11/2010, 10:20 AM

sure, but not with livestock in it. It would need to be broken down and then drilled.

Fizz71 · 03/11/2010, 12:46 PM

What are you draining the tank with? ...is it an actual overflow box so that it's designed for power outages? I am going to assume it is..so that means you're really only worried about Murphy stepping in and screwing things up. You have a couple alternatives besides the best move of drilling like the others have said....

1. Make your last sump chamber SUPER small and run the overflow box low in the tank. If you keep the volume in the sump low enough and the free space in the tank high enough the tank will hold the extra water on your overflow failing. Yes the pump will run hot BUT not all the water will make it back up to the tank because once it starts sucking air it will stop pumping water so SOME water will stay back and help cool it..altough you'll have a MESS of bubbles in your tank. And even though that would work, you then have to deal with a faster top-off interval..and you can't set it up automatically because it will wind up in your sump when the overflow fails!

2. Run a second overflow for redundancy.

3. Put an aqualifter on your overflow to pump out bubble and help assure a safe restart.

Please keep in mind..that no matter WHAT you do, running an overflow that isn't drilled means you're always running at risk. I did it for years...I hated it. I'm drilled now and I don't worry about floods anymore. Personally I'd take the time to come up with a better alternative to HOB overflows...I just don't trust them anymore, and the tank is the ONE thing you can't change later without a complete breakdown....take it down now..use your second 75 and make it RR, then move your stuff into it and make the current 75 your sump.

Dhub · 03/11/2010, 06:47 PM

Thanks for the comments. On Saturday, I'm taking the sump to get the rear pane drilled.

Many thanks.

03/10/2010, 07:49 PM	#1
Dhub Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: SouthEast USA Posts: 22	How do I prevent a flood and prevent burning out a pump? I have a 2 75g non-RR tanks. Both are Aqueon 75E so the bottoms are tempered and can't be drilled. I am using one 75 as a sump -which may be over kill for a 75g display but I don't like the hang on the back Octpus 800 on the display nor do I like the heater etc showing. So here I am, trying to SW with non-reef ready tanks. Here's the issue - I thought I would set the overflow coming off the DT to feed into a section of the sump that would feed the octopus800 - then over flow into a dsb refug then overflow into a section that houses a pump for return. My problem is... what happens when I'm out of town and the power goes off? The pump stops - the manual over-flow keeps syphoning off the display until if fall below the overflow fill cup. No problem right? Then the power comes on and pumps 25g of water into the display - running all over the floor and continues to run dry until it burns out the pump. Is there some way to prevent this? can I use a manual overflow to feed the sump and a manual overflow to return feed the display? What is my best course of action? TIA! Last edited by Dhub; 03/10/2010 at 08:01 PM.

03/10/2010, 09:13 PM	#3
ludnix Registered Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: California Posts: 3,031	I would look into drilling the sides, the piece of mind a non-siphon overflow can provide is worth the risk a thousand times over. __________________ -Eric Sutter Current Tank Info: 14g Biocube

03/11/2010, 10:00 AM	#4
sassyfrassy Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Kings Mountain, NC Posts: 912	Is it possible to drill the side of an established tank? __________________ Faith, hope, and love abide; but the greatest of these is love. Current Tank Info: 40g breeder DT LR & Macro Algae - 2" sand, 6 T5s & 2 fans in hood; 30gL sump/fuge w/MSX 200 skimmer & other equip.; (mangroves in DT - roots are great look)

03/11/2010, 10:20 AM	#5
Chiefsurfer Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Seaside Park, NJ Posts: 2,138	sure, but not with livestock in it. It would need to be broken down and then drilled. __________________ Chief Current Tank: 20 Gallon tall, 4-bulb t5 HO, Eshopps psk75H, ac-70 fuge. So far, green clown goby, striped goby, more gorillas than I wish I had, 5 SPS frags, 3 LPS Frags, 1 Softee, Turkey Wing Clam. Plan for the future: 120 gallon 4ft glass tank. Current Tank Info: 20 gallon tall Reef Tank

03/11/2010, 12:46 PM	#6
Fizz71 FragSwapper Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: West Lawn, PA Posts: 5,800	What are you draining the tank with? ...is it an actual overflow box so that it's designed for power outages? I am going to assume it is..so that means you're really only worried about Murphy stepping in and screwing things up. You have a couple alternatives besides the best move of drilling like the others have said.... 1. Make your last sump chamber SUPER small and run the overflow box low in the tank. If you keep the volume in the sump low enough and the free space in the tank high enough the tank will hold the extra water on your overflow failing. Yes the pump will run hot BUT not all the water will make it back up to the tank because once it starts sucking air it will stop pumping water so SOME water will stay back and help cool it..altough you'll have a MESS of bubbles in your tank. And even though that would work, you then have to deal with a faster top-off interval..and you can't set it up automatically because it will wind up in your sump when the overflow fails! 2. Run a second overflow for redundancy. 3. Put an aqualifter on your overflow to pump out bubble and help assure a safe restart. Please keep in mind..that no matter WHAT you do, running an overflow that isn't drilled means you're always running at risk. I did it for years...I hated it. I'm drilled now and I don't worry about floods anymore. Personally I'd take the time to come up with a better alternative to HOB overflows...I just don't trust them anymore, and the tank is the ONE thing you can't change later without a complete breakdown....take it down now..use your second 75 and make it RR, then move your stuff into it and make the current 75 your sump.

03/11/2010, 06:47 PM	#7
Dhub Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: SouthEast USA Posts: 22	Thanks for the comments. On Saturday, I'm taking the sump to get the rear pane drilled. Many thanks.