My first large tank, what do I need to know?

[Dante_JoseCuerv]

Hey everyone, so after about a year of delaying it looks like I'm finally going to be getting my first large tank early/mid summer :-)
I'm relatively new to this realm, and even though I've done a ton of research I still figured that asking for the help of RC would be a good idea. So here's the rundown: I'm going to be getting a tank in the ~300-450 gallon range. I've done a ton of research, both here on RC and other websites/books/etc and here's all the equipment I've put together so far, let me know what you think and feel free to add your own comments/suggestions/criticism. All of it is welcome and appreciated!!!

Filtration/plumbing

• Return pump: Dart or Snapper
• Skimmer: Reef Octopus TDNW 300
  Recirculating (is the 400 overkill?)
  • Skimmer supply pump: Sicce 2500 or Sedra 9000?
• 1.5" drain plumbing (BeanAnimal design)
  • Is 1.5" too big, also: should I connect the main siphons together and leave the other 4 separated or leave all of them separated?
• Sump: rubbermaid stock tank(s)
  • This is where I have a couple ideas: should I get a 50 gallon stock tank for filter socks and the skimmer and then lead into a larger one containing stuff like LR and whatnot. This would allow me to split the flow between a sump and a fuge (might go for a display fuge)
  • Or... should I just get one big stock tank and have everything in there, adding in a fuge with macros later?
• Return plumbing: 1" mixed returns
  • I'm thinking of doing 2 main returns on the back panel with several returns elsewhere (either side).
• Reactors:
  
  • Single or dual (carbon and GFO): Should I run separate reactors to allow for differing flow rates or just get a dual reactor for both?
  • Kalk: I'm looking at the octopus digital kalk stirrer, but definitely open to other suggestions/alternatives.
    
  • Calcium: Somewhat debating this, since kalk IS pretty awesome, but looking at a decent dual-chamber unit. Again, suggestions are greatly encouraged :-)

Lighting

• 3x LumenMax HQI reflectors
• 3x Icecap 250w HQI ballasts
• Reeflux 12k bulbs
  • I've seen these used in person before and I don't feel that they really need any actinic supplementation (at least IMO, I think they're blue enough for my taste).
• Moonlights? I've been considering some LEDs for dawn/dusk effects, but still not completely sold on the idea. Still kinda cool though!
• Fuge lighting: PC ~6500-6700K PC lamps (I've got a ton lying around for some reason, so I figure why not use them if I get a fuge?)

Electronics/controllers/probes/etc:

• RKE Net controller
  • I go out of town a fair bit (student and all) so having the ability to monitor my system remotely is quite a nice perk. Also looking at an APEX, is there a reason to choose one over the other?
• Probes:
  • ORP
  • Salinity
  • Temperature
  • pH
• I can't think of too much else here, other than the outlets that come with the RKE to control whatever I need them to.

Circulation:

This is where, I'm having the biggest trouble. I'm stuck between a closed loop or some vortechs/tunzes (of course there are pros/cons to either of those powerheads, just consider them as one grouping). So far, I've narrowed it down to a few basic ideas:

1. Basic closed loop: My main holdup here is that I'm waiting to get my quote back from A.G.E. on a hybrid aquarium. If I end up getting that, then a closed loop will be almost certain. I'm thinking of having a 2" inlet with ~4 1" outlets (each split into 2 outlets for broader flow or something to that effect). This will probably be powered by a Dart or similar pump that feeds into an OM 4-way.
2. Vortechs/Tunzes: Again, pretty simple idea: I can have Tunzes in the rocks for random flow and Vortechs on the sides for a good back-and-forth motion. Seems pretty simple, but again I beseech all of thee for suggestions and feedback.
3. Combo: Well who would've thought of this, why not get a closed loop AND some powerheads?!?! I know, not very original but hey it's not that bad is it?

Miscellaneous:

Did I forget anything up there? I've gone through this over and over and over again, but I have a feeling something was left out.

Oh, I should also note the reason/cause of me upgrading from my 90 to a large tank. This is more of a random story than anything but hey, who doesn't like a story? So basically, about 3 years ago my sister came home with a fish that she thought was the most adorable thing in the world. Turns out... it was Lactoria cornuta aka a longhorn cowfish. So... 3 years later he has surpassed the bioload capacity of my tank and the family doesn't want to get rid of him. With all this in mind, my mom and sister asked me to come on here and ask you guys for help. That's really about it
/end story.

[Dante_JoseCuerv]

Anyone? I know this is basically beating a dead horse but nothing? No suggestions or anything?

[bbart12]

Large systems are an enteresting beast. It is not linear but exponential in terms of cost and maintenence. However to help you out the community (and youself) it would be best to have more information as to your goals for the system. Do you want corals if so what kind.
Sorry for the sloppy post on my iPhone

[Dante_JoseCuerv]

Thanks a bunch, I knew I forgot something!

To address your mentioning of operating costs and whatnot, that has all been taken into account. I haven't gone into this completely blind, or so I'd like to think.

As for what I plan to keep. I'm mostly planning on SPS and LPS corals. Perhaps a mushroom here and a zoa colony there, but predominately hard corals.

Now as far as livestock goes I'm going to be moving my existing fish into the large tank, and I've got a few ideas of what I want to add into that mix as well. It's mostly going to be smaller fish (i.e. anthias or cardinals) with a couple larger "show" fish such as a genicanthus angel or a nice tang. Again, as of now I'm mostly focusing on making sure I'm off to a good start as I don't plan on adding everything at once.

Hope this is what you were looking for, and no worries on the sloppy post. I can't even make a good post when I'm in front of my computer sometimes!

[xmasia]

i didnt see mention of an ATO ,also water mixing station. i would say go with a fuge, but ive seen some nice big tanks that dont. i would go with moon lights i like the look. anyway theres my thoughts looks like your off to a good start.

[Dante_JoseCuerv]

@ xmasia:

In terms of an ATO, I'm probably gonna put my own together with a large storage container and a pump hooked up to my controller with a float switch for monitoring. Water mixing is gonna be pretty simple: a couple Brute trashcans with powerheads in them, and a drain valve installed into each one.

I'm really considering adding a fuge down the line, adding it to the established system, but as of now it looks like I've got a couple months to think that through a little more.

My biggest question here is about the skimmer. I do realize that there are very good skimmers out there (BubbleKings, Deltecs, etc...) but is the octopus a good skimmer? I'm not sure as to how much headroom I should allow for.

[MarineGirl411]

I just talked with Reef Specialty. You should call up Mike and talk to him. Very nice. Go with a Reef Octopus Xp cone. He says they blow everything out of the water. He can direct you. Very nice and helpful person. =) I will be getting the Octo 3000 xp cone from him in the near future. I am having your same problems. I love my closed loop, I currently have. It is a bit noisy though. On the new set up, I would love to incorporate sea swirls for their back and forth motion. They really do a nice job. I have also recently purchased 3 vortechs. =*( I do that because they are so expensive. I went with the older version though and found brand new ones on ebay!!! So they were a lot cheaper than buying them in the store. So if the tank is that big, I'd do both if you can afford it. Course it is always up to your personal preference.

[Dante_JoseCuerv]

Thanks MarineGirl!

I looked at the cone skimmers a bit before I decided on the recirc, but my biggest concern is whether it will be enough for my cowfish. I'm running a G2 on my 90 currently and even though it pulls out some really thick muck it's still a hassle to keep up with his waste. Those things are poop factories!!!

I'll definitely get a hold of him though. That skimmer definitely looks worth consideration if it's as good as you say it is.

I'm just curious though, how's your closed loop set up? Is it a static flow from all ports or do you have something switching the flow? I'm thinking about using one to prevent dead spots for detritus to settle in and keep the wave motion with the vortechs.

I also had an interesting idea pertaining to the sump/fuge area:
-I still think I'm gonna have the filter socks and skimmer in a separate stock tank but I just had the idea to use a big stock tank to hold a semi-cryptic zone. There would only be ambient light and it would mostly likely be filled with sponges. I've seen a few things like that here on RC before and they seem to work pretty well. I might have to sketch up a plan since I'm so bad at explaining things with typed words.

[Dante_JoseCuerv]

Oh, and I also forgot to mention that I plan on having a sand bed about 3" deep or so. I'm stuck between Fiji Pink and Ocean Direct Original. I like the color of the Fiji as I have it in my nano right now but I feel that the grain is too small. The Ocean Direct seems to have a better distribution and variety of grain sizes which looks a bit better.

Keep the feedback coming everyone! I really appreciate it.

[bbart12]

You are on the right track in terms of preparation. However, I would seriously consider not having any kind of mechanical filtration. By this I an talking about filter socks and the like. In my experience they tend to get neglected and causing more harm than good. To each their own. I started out with filter socks and they quickly got left by the wayside.

Ounce again just personal opinion. There are plenty of people who do both with great results.

[Dante_JoseCuerv]

Fair enough. I guess it's one of those things like bioballs where some people swear by them and others have had nothing but amazing success with them. And now I wait to hear back for a quote from A.G.E.

[prop-frags]

I'm not sure I understand the physical layout of the design.
You mention the stock tanks for sumps...so is this a remote fishroom you're planning? In-wall display? Stand-alone? Do you have a layout drawn up?

[khaosinc]

one thing I would look at is where you are going to place everything. Once you start getting in to the big tanks you start getting in to space issues quite quickly. Water changes become 50-100 gallons a a time especially with SPS, not to mention keeping water as a back up for the big change when something goes through the powerhead. I'd also think about a much larger sump. The rubber made tanks can be nice (and inexpensive) but the ability to see in from the side with a glass/acrylic tank can be useful. Remote fishrooms are great if you have access to the space. but if its in a basement, you might want to have someone look at the floors before you put a couple of tons on it. Another thing (one that bit me pretty hard) is the increased evaporation that the new tank will put out in the house. I lose 5 gallons a day easily and I don't even use MH.

[Dtronic]

Originally Posted by Dante_JoseCuerv

Oh, and I also forgot to mention that I plan on having a sand bed about 3" deep or so. I'm stuck between Fiji Pink and Ocean Direct Original. I like the color of the Fiji as I have it in my nano right now but I feel that the grain is too small. The Ocean Direct seems to have a better distribution and variety of grain sizes which looks a bit better.

Keep the feedback coming everyone! I really appreciate it.

Read my build thread for sand. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1756493

Also forget about sedra pumps for skimmers. Too many problems.

I didn't use a closed loop, KISS.

Vortechs and a Reeflo dart provide enough circulation.

I also skipped filter socks. Had them on my last tank.

Seperate reactors for different flow rates for carbon and gfo.

I have 2 2" drains and 2 1 1/2 returns.

Two part dosing is simpler to adjust and maintain than Kalk and calcium reactors and less chance of disaster, but it is more $$$.

Can't help with controller, I'm still waiting for one that suits what I want it to do. I might wait until MACNA to get a setup.

Why not go with adjustable ballasts, ou can change from 250w to 400w if you want/need to.

[Dante_JoseCuerv]

Originally Posted by Dtronic

Read my build thread for sand. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1756493

Also forget about sedra pumps for skimmers. Too many problems.

I didn't use a closed loop, KISS.

Vortechs and a Reeflo dart provide enough circulation.

I also skipped filter socks. Had them on my last tank.

Seperate reactors for different flow rates for carbon and gfo.

I have 2 2" drains and 2 1 1/2 returns.

Two part dosing is simpler to adjust and maintain than Kalk and calcium reactors and less chance of disaster, but it is more $$$.

Can't help with controller, I'm still waiting for one that suits what I want it to do. I might wait until MACNA to get a setup.

Why not go with adjustable ballasts, you can change from 250w to 400w if you want/need to.

Thanks for the heads up on the sand. I'll definitely look into that.

As for Sedras, I've had at least one running on my tank for the past 4 years with no problems. The only thing I've really had problems with is my skimmer cup not opening up anymore :-( That won't be a problem since I'm now looking at the octopus XP5000
I'm only going to run the closed loop if I get the A.G.E. Other than that it's just gonna be a Dart and 2 vortechs (maybe a tunze or two if my rockwork produces any dead areas).

The filter socks are basically a gift from a friend. He doesn't want them, but... that doesn't mean I need to use them.

Separate reactors is what I was thinking, might end up adding them on down the line.

As of now it looks like I'll be getting a Marineland 300DD. I'm still waiting for a quote from A.G.E.

[Ward1]

I agree with you on the reef octo..the new pump(bubble blaster) has a three year warranty and is getting great reviews. Down the road you will find Bulk Reef Supply to be great for your dosing needs. The black premium reactors they have are awesome and at a great price too. I just finished my first large tank and that is my two cents..good luck and have some fun with it!

[MarineGirl411]

Cool so you talked to Mike??? They sound like impressive skimmers huh? ;-) I still have not fully decided how to set up the 180. It is not up yet. I would love to get a 300 DD. Those tanks are soooooooo nice. I already drilled the holes for the closed loop. For the closed loop I was going to use a reeflo super dart 3 3/4 in Sea Swirls, and I also drilled 3 holes equally on the back bottom of the tank. Hope that makes sense. I will post a pic.

The three small yellow circles are where the holes are drilled. The large yellow circle is the feed hole for the super dart. I love Sea Swirls. They are really nice and prove great random flow. I did, however, come across brand new vortechs on ebay for an excellent price!!! I would like to run all that flow personally, but I am also thinking about the monthly bill. I have not decided. The tank was previously set up somewhere else. I wanted to change the way it was set up. I would love to buy a DD. Mike told me that he recently helped someone with a 300 DD, and they used the SRO 3000 XP cone on the setup. Not the 5000. I guess it depends on what you want to do with the tank. Definitely talk to him.

[Dante_JoseCuerv]

Originally Posted by Ward1

I agree with you on the reef octo..the new pump(bubble blaster) has a three year warranty and is getting great reviews. Down the road you will find Bulk Reef Supply to be great for your dosing needs. The black premium reactors they have are awesome and at a great price too. I just finished my first large tank and that is my two cents..good luck and have some fun with it!

I had actually planned on ordering my kalk and stuff from BRS

Originally Posted by MarineGirl411

Cool so you talked to Mike??? They sound like impressive skimmers huh? ;-) I still have not fully decided how to set up the 180. It is not up yet. I would love to get a 300 DD. Those tanks are soooooooo nice. I already drilled the holes for the closed loop. For the closed loop I was going to use a reeflo super dart 3 3/4 in Sea Swirls, and I also drilled 3 holes equally on the back bottom of the tank. Hope that makes sense. I will post a pic.

The three small yellow circles are where the holes are drilled. The large yellow circle is the feed hole for the super dart. I love Sea Swirls. They are really nice and prove great random flow. I did, however, come across brand new vortechs on ebay for an excellent price!!! I would like to run all that flow personally, but I am also thinking about the monthly bill. I have not decided. The tank was previously set up somewhere else. I wanted to change the way it was set up. I would love to buy a DD. Mike told me that he recently helped someone with a 300 DD, and they used the SRO 3000 XP cone on the setup. Not the 5000. I guess it depends on what you want to do with the tank. Definitely talk to him.

Funny enough I randomly got confused and PMed Jeremy. Turns out he answered my question either way! I had asked about the XP 3000 but with the fact that I have a cowfish and want to add a couple messy eaters he recommended that I get the XP 5000. It may be overkill, but cowfish, like nibbler, are celebrated poopers.