White spot - regal tang - help!!!

[welshnumber8]

Hi huys my regal tang has been with me for 2 weeks and today has come out in white spot.

Please can you advise on best cure?

Also my blenny has started to itch he is 4 years old and i have never seem him do this?

Will it effect all my fish? Help!!!!

[jdthomas24]

regal aka pacific aka hippo have the tendency to get ich, they are moderate care level. treat with vitamins on food.

[welshnumber8]

ok i have some garlic brine shrimp will that help.

[jdthomas24]

garlic is bad , long term for fish, its used to help them eat but if they eat do not use it. get seom vitamins to put on the food and let it soak in the food for a bit then feed them. this helps let their natural immune system take over. there is always QT ideas with cooper and hypo salinty but i believe in the natural ability of the fish.

[steelhead77]

Do Not Panic! One or two white spots is no big deal. As long as he is eating and swimming, he can and will fight it off. There are those on this site that say that you MUST immediately remove all fish to QT and let your DT go fallow for 6-8 weeks. A year and a half after this:



My Tang and tank are doing fine. No other fish came down with ich after this outbreak.

[sdc19982002]

Originally Posted by steelhead77

Do Not Panic! One or two white spots is no big deal. As long as he is eating and swimming, he can and will fight it off. There are those on this site that say that you MUST immediately remove all fish to QT and let your DT go fallow for 6-8 weeks. A year and a half after this:



My Tang and tank are doing fine. No other fish came down with ich after this outbreak.

This is not true to all tangs, My powder brown started with two or 3 spots and died 2 days later, He was eating fine. There are far more cases of doom than recovery without treatment.

[shifty51008]

to completly remove ich fromyour tankyou will have to take all the fish out and put them in a hospital tank and treat with hyposalinity treatment, i wouldn't suggest using copper as tangs don't do well with copper.

although geting them to eat and having the fish fight it off themselves is good, the ich will still be in the tank and if something happens to stress out the fish later on they will get ich again.

[steelhead77]

Originally Posted by shifty51008

the ich will still be in the tank and if something happens to stress out the fish later on they will get ich again.

This is not necessarily true. If ich does not find a host, it will die off. If your fish are healty and ich is not able to gain a foot hold it will die off even in a tank full of fish. Yes it can live in the gills, but, again healthy, non-stressed fish will not act as a host. I have upgraded tanks twice since that pic was taken, so I can safely say that my fish were under at least some stress. None of them have come down with ich since Dec. 2008. YMMV, of course.

[Chris27]

Originally Posted by steelhead77

This is not necessarily true. If ich does not find a host, it will die off. If your fish are healty and ich is not able to gain a foot hold it will die off even in a tank full of fish. Yes it can live in the gills, but, again healthy, non-stressed fish will not act as a host. I have upgraded tanks twice since that pic was taken, so I can safely say that my fish were under at least some stress. None of them have come down with ich since Dec. 2008. YMMV, of course.

It is true, as long as there is a fish host, it will be there...a healthy fish may not show signs of being affected by the parasite, but it's still there. New additions, sensitive and easily stressed fish are likely candidates to be overcome by the parasite. That means, everytime a new fish is added to the system, the fish has a 25-50% chance of living through the first 2-4 weeks...

There has been some research done that indicates the strength parasite can lessen over time, however it hasn't been proven yet, and this is only in the event a new strain of the parasite isn't inadvertanly added to the system.

The best and only advice one should give is to erradicate the parasite from the display by means of active QT and hospitalization.

Garlic, vitamines and lot's-o-food suggestions are not medications, they are items that can and maybe will help the fish maintain a strong immune system in an effort to fight off the parasite. Copper, hypo, formalin, whatever, they are proven methods that eliminate the parasite over the course of a few weeks.

Here is a great article on the parasite, it's lifecycle and treatment options, follow this guidance and you'll have a fat healthy fish in no time at all.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php

Good Luck

[Palting]

Great link, Chris. Just read the article three times.

4 weeks ago, my purple tang looked just like the picture above. It did survive and continous to do well, as are my other tangs, with nothing more than benign neglect and close attention to water chemistry. The article referenced above talks about the non-infectious cyst, the tomont, attaching to the substrate, rocks, and walls. Are these visible? I actually see what appear to be white hard crystals on my back walls and rocks. They are hard, appear like solid crystals, can be scraped off with a fingernail with some difficulty.

Anyone know if these are the cysts/tomonts? If not, what the heck are they?

[Chris27]

Pods probably - check this out....

http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/msu...a/aa122101.htm

[Palting]

LOL!!! The article title is worded exactly like my question. Thanks again.

[steelhead77]

Originally Posted by Chris27

It is true, as long as there is a fish host, it will be there...a healthy fish may not show signs of being affected by the parasite, but it's still there. New additions, sensitive and easily stressed fish are likely candidates to be overcome by the parasite. That means, everytime a new fish is added to the system, the fish has a 25-50% chance of living through the first 2-4 weeks...

Excuse me but that last sentence is hogwash. I've added at least 10 fish after that pic was taken, including 3 more tangs. I've also gone thru 2 tank uprades. It's safe to say my fish have been stressed. Guess what; No Ich. I think chasing a fish around with a net and putting him, along with all the other fish you catch in a qt that is most likely 1/3 the size of the DT for 6-8 weeks, creates a much more detrimental situation for the fish than leaving them alone to fight it off.
I understand that I am going against the conventional wisdom on this board, but I can't deny the success I had with my tang and with my tank. I feel that I must present another alternative than the qt, copper and 8 week fallow tank a lot of you advocate at the first few signs of white spots on a fish.

[Palting]

I'm going to go with steelhead on this one. On that prior article mentioned, when the Ich is not on the fish, they are in the non-infectious cyst or tromont stage. This lasts up to 28 days. Then they hatch as theronts and must find a fish in 24 hours or they die. So, if the fish are Ich-free for 29 days, theoretically all the Ich are dead.

Of course, mother nature being what she is, she can do whatever she wants, like have them encyst for years and years. Or, I'm just a noob trying to sound good .

[shifty51008]

Originally Posted by Palting

when the Ich is not on the fish, they are in the non-infectious cyst or tromont stage. This lasts up to 28 days. Then they hatch as theronts and must find a fish in 24 hours or they die. So, if the fish are Ich-free for 29 days, theoretically all the Ich are dead.

and yes you stated that correctly, and if you have a fish in the tank well then it ich has just found a host (aka fish) so they won't die. yes the fish if healthy will not show signs of the ich but it is there.

[steelhead77]

Originally Posted by shifty51008

and yes you stated that correctly, and if you have a fish in the tank well then it ich has just found a host (aka fish) so they won't die. yes the fish if healthy will not show signs of the ich but it is there.

Again, I don't think that is necessarily true. If you are in a room that has the flu bug in it, are you automatically going to get the flu? Probably not. I contend that if you are otherwise healthy, you can avoid getting it. I believe it is the same with the fish. If he is otherwise healthy and not stressed, he is able to fight it off. And if he continues to fight it off, eventually the ich will not be able to find a host and it will die off. I believe this is what happened in my tank. I think there are many other cases of this same thing happening. I believe that when fish die from "ich", they more than likely have other issues that contribute to their demise. Take a look at my Purple Tang, if any fish should have died from ich, it was that one. Yet he survives to this day.

[Chris27]

Originally Posted by steelhead77

Again, I don't think that is necessarily true. If you are in a room that has the flu bug in it, are you automatically going to get the flu? Probably not. I contend that if you are otherwise healthy, you can avoid getting it. I believe it is the same with the fish. If he is otherwise healthy and not stressed, he is able to fight it off. And if he continues to fight it off, eventually the ich will not be able to find a host and it will die off. I believe this is what happened in my tank. I think there are many other cases of this same thing happening. I believe that when fish die from "ich", they more than likely have other issues that contribute to their demise. Take a look at my Purple Tang, if any fish should have died from ich, it was that one. Yet he survives to this day.

Flu is a virus, not a parasite, whole different can of worms, it's lifecycle will eventually end all on it's own. Also, it is more then possible for you to carry that virus and transfer it to another individual without being affected...

A parasite on the other hand, needs a host to survive, just because the host isn't affected by the parasite, it doesn't mean that it's not there. Fleas, lice, ringworm, you name it, they need to be treated to stop the lifecycle. Some hosts are just more susceptible to the parasite then others.

It's bad practice to tell people not to worry, it'll go away on it's own. That was your experience, others may not be so lucky. I would hate for someone to save their money for a few months, only to buy a beautiful expensive fish that dies in three weeks because they thought the parasite would go away.

You are not suggesting an alternative treatment option, merely an experience you had. Perhaps you've been lucky over your tenure, but you shouldn't try to steer folks away from QT - it's a proven method that works, and has the science behind it to back it up.

[steelhead77]

Others have had the same experience as myself. I think the method I used has proven successful many times for many people. I think telling someone (especially a newbie) to basically tear apart their rock work and chase a tank full of fish around with a net and place them in a qt 1/3 the size of their dt for six weeks is somewhat unrealistic and can create more problems, or exacerbate the problem they already have. My recommendation has been to take a wait and see approach. Make sure they continue to eat well. Perhaps add UV. Feed them vitamins. Keep a close eye on them. When they are in distress, then it's time to take more drastic measures. However fish often can and do fight it off. Ich is not an automatic death sentence that, unless treated, most folks here make it out to be.

Of course, a lot of these issues can be avoided by quarantining the fish for a period of time before adding them to the dt. Unfortunately most of us don't do that.

[Chris27]

Originally Posted by steelhead77

Of course, a lot of these issues can be avoided by quarantining the fish for a period of time before adding them to the dt. Unfortunately most of us don't do that.

Well said and very true - but the more we spread the word - the more it will be done.

My wallet sure wishes I had known about the QT practice when I started....I'm embarrassed to say how many fish I lost to Brook and Crypt before I adopted a proper QT regimen....

[Palting]

Here's a question that you guru's can answer for me, a noob.

In panic, when my purple tang looked like the picture above, I bought a 14 gal cube to make into a treatment tank and eventually a true QT, together with formalin and assorted number of medications. Armed with printed instructions gathered from this forum and other sources, I was going to either cure the tang or kill it. Lucky for the tang, and me, he was all better by the time I got set-up. He never had to suffer the indignity of hyposalinity, formalin dip, and 6 wk incarceration in a 14 gal tank. I am going to wait out the next 6 weeks to see what happens with my DT, since I can't afford to do otherwise anyways.

Back to the topic of QT. What if, rather than my own QT, I buy a new fish from my LFS, owned by a friend and reef afficionado, and leave it with him for 2 weeks. His tank is the QT. Fish gets sick or dies, I then get credit for the next purchase. Alive and well, I take it home straight to my DT, just acclimate him. Better than QT him twice, right? Once at the LFS, and again in my 14 gal. I apologize beforehand if this is a supid noob question.

[Chris27]

If your buddy is a good friend, he'll have a tank that's already treated with copper or hypo - after a few weeks he'll be giving you a for sure healthy fish....my LFS has a number of tanks just for fish that always have copper on them...needless to say, the fish I get from him are very healthy and last a good long time.

[sb62nova]

I'm a noob as well and I'm not really sure myself... but I don't think 2 weeks is "sufficient" QT time. Not only that, but dont most fish stores have their tanks so that all the plumbing runs together? So wouldnt that defeat the purpose? I personally like to place all my new fish on hold for a week or two before pick up and my LFS is cool with it as well as encourages it. But, I would have to agree that a QT tank is not a bad idea. I was too cheap to start one and had the infamous ich battle with my two tangs in DT as well.

[steelhead77]

Despite what I said in a post above, some people don't recommend a qt because placing him in qt for 2-3 weeks and then chasing him around, catching him and putting him into the dt adds too much stress to the fish and it's better to skip that part and deal with the consequenses (if any).

That said, I do think that it is good practice to qt most fish. It can save a lot of headaches, especially for a newbie. Better yet, if you can get the LFS to do it for you, that would be the ideal. It seems that nowadays most LFS's (at least in my part of the world) treat their fish with copper, or at least qt them, before they sell them to the general public. I do think it is a little overkill to qt inverts, corals etc. Yet some on this board advocate that practice.

[juicesay]

I'd advise to do a freshwater dip for 2-5 minutes.

Can really shouldn't QT the fish, as it will tend to cause more stress.
You can possibly attempt to use PraziPro in the fishes current tank to aid Ich Removal.

I had something this severe with a purple tang, took a long time for it to recover, but the longer you wait the more severe it becomes.