a few questions about my new tank and cycling....

timdam · 05/18/2010, 08:08 PM

so i just set up my tank. live sand. dry marco rock. added a piece of shrimp and a live rock to help start the cycle. i plan on waiting a month before adding stuff.

questions are:
1. after two weeks, do a 20% water change, and test water. if okay, then add clean up crew? is that right?

2. after a month, if water tests right, do a 10% water change and then add a fish? or add a few corals first? does it matter?

3. it's been a week. and the one piece of live rock that i added has bubbles and is kinda greenish. is that good or bad?

4. is there anything else i should be doing or looking out for while waiting for my tank to cycle?

can someone walk me thru this?

thanks.

timdam · 05/18/2010, 09:06 PM

anybody? shane hoffman? anybody?

Kxracer704 · 05/18/2010, 09:22 PM

1.) I have read, not to do a water change during the cycle. It just slows the process down. Your are trying to build up bacteria in your tank, and doing a water change would not do any harm, but just slow it down.

you said you aren't going to add anything for a month. But then you also said that in 2 weeks your going to add a CUC??......I would just wait the full month to make sure your tank is cycled, then add the CUC.

thegrun · 05/18/2010, 09:38 PM

1. With only one piece of live rock, I would not worry about a water change 2 weeks in, it will not slow your cycle down, but it is not necessary unless there are some life forms on the live rock that you are trying to protect by lowering the ammonia level.
2. I would make a 20-25% water change when the initial cycle is complete. Do not add a clean-up crew until the cycle is complete. I prefer to add coral first, but many go with fish. In the end, there isn't much of a difference.
3. Bubbles (from algae or diatoms) are part of the cycle. If you get a large algae bloom, you probably are running your lights to long. I would only run them 4 hours max, if at all.
4. Monitor ammonia levels, they should spike then drop to zero. Next watch the nitrite levels, they will also spike then drop to zero. When both ammonia and nitrites have been at zero for a week, add your clean up crew, wait another week and then corals or one fish a week (you can add several corals at a time).

Palting · 05/18/2010, 09:52 PM

OK. People on this board will crucify me for this, but here is what I suggest.

It is definitely hard staring at an empty tank watching a rock develop bubbles and turn kinda greenish. Patience is a virtue I personally do not have.

So, you've got "live" sand, added dead shrimp on day one, a live rock sometime later. Got any other filter going? It is now a week out. Your tank definitely has not cycled. So what? Who gives a you know what? You want something to happen and something to do other than watch that rock turn "kinda green". So, go get maybe 2 or 3 dwarf hermits and a cheap hardy fish like a damsel or 2. Feed miserly. Check your parameters frequently, and keep a log. If ammonia starts to rise, start your water changes, about 20% a week, or more frequently depending on how fast the ammonia rises or how your livestock are doing. Make marks on your tank and take note of how much water and how much salt you need to mix for a 20% WC so it becomes a habit you don't have to think about. Between your live rock, live sand, and small bioload, you may not see much of an ammonia rise. This way, you can see something colorful swimmming and something moving in your tank, you learn and get adept at water testing and water changing, learn to keep a log, and your tank will be cycled before you know it. You can then return the damsel or two for credit on something else, or keep them if you wish.

Seems better than just waiting for that rotten dead shrimp to be eaten by bacteria, turn into ammonia, then nitrite, then nitrate.

BTW, bubbles on the rock are OK for a new tank. You may even see bubbles on your live sand. Your rocks will turn brown from diatoms before they turn green from algae. If you want to do the patience thing, just keep everything unchanged, do nothing, with no livestock until you see the rocks start getting brown from a diatom or brown "algae" bloom. Then check your parameters to see if you are ready for livestock.

timdam · 05/18/2010, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Palting

OK. People on this board will crucify me for this, but here is what I suggest.

It is definitely hard staring at an empty tank watching a rock develop bubbles and turn kinda greenish. Patience is a virtue I personally do not have.

So, you've got "live" sand, added dead shrimp on day one, a live rock sometime later. Got any other filter going? It is now a week out. Your tank definitely has not cycled. So what? Who gives a you know what? You want something to happen and something to do other than watch that rock turn "kinda green". So, go get maybe 2 or 3 dwarf hermits and a cheap hardy fish like a damsel or 2. Feed miserly. Check your parameters frequently, and keep a log. If ammonia starts to rise, start your water changes, about 20% a week, or more frequently depending on how fast the ammonia rises or how your livestock are doing. Make marks on your tank and take note of how much water and how much salt you need to mix for a 20% WC so it becomes a habit you don't have to think about. Between your live rock, live sand, and small bioload, you may not see much of an ammonia rise. This way, you can see something colorful swimmming and something moving in your tank, you learn and get adept at water testing and water changing, learn to keep a log, and your tank will be cycled before you know it. You can then return the damsel or two for credit on something else, or keep them if you wish.

Seems better than just waiting for that rotten dead shrimp to be eaten by bacteria, turn into ammonia, then nitrite, then nitrate.

BTW, bubbles on the rock are OK for a new tank. You may even see bubbles on your live sand. Your rocks will turn brown from diatoms before they turn green from algae. If you want to do the patience thing, just keep everything unchanged, do nothing, with no livestock until you see the rocks start getting brown. Then check your parameters to see if you are ready for livestock.

thanks for the advice. but i am going to try to be patient. it's hard, i know. but i don't wanna mess this up. as far as getting in the habit of doing water changes, i'm pretty accustomed to it b/c i already have a FOWLR tank.

timdam · 05/18/2010, 10:00 PM

another question... i have a 45 gallon tank. what CUC package would yall recommend me getting from this site?

http://www.saltwaterfish.com/Reef-Packages_c_2.html

kev24k · 05/18/2010, 10:19 PM

Its not an exact science. You can't say after two weeks add this. 4 day later add that. It just depends on how your tank is progressing.

timdam · 05/18/2010, 10:44 PM

i have led's. should i even run my lights during the cycle? is there a difference either way?

Think_Reef · 05/19/2010, 12:06 AM

i left my lights off for the duration of the cycle with no ill effects. The only thing that will come from your lights being on is possibly increased algae growth.

Lemeshianos · 05/19/2010, 01:52 AM

A raw shrimp in a tank with live rock, will only add nitrates and phosphates in the water column. There is no need for something to kick start the cycle. Everything you need is on the rock.

If the rock is cured, it will have a good population of de-nitrifying bacteria and you will have a short cycle.
If the rock is not cured, it will have enough die-off to start the cycle which will last longer in this case.

Water changes are not needed unless there is something on the rock that you want to preserve. For example I wouldn't let ammonia go over 0.5ppm.
If nothing is needed to be preserved I would do a water change after the cycle to lower the nitrates. Depending on what you plan to add first, you adjust the volume of the water change. If you want corals I would do a water change that would drop nitrates to <5ppm. If only fish initially I would just change 20% of the water.

I wouldn't add anything in during cycle, especially an invertebrate as they are a more sensitive organism than fish. Also while damsels are hardy fish, they are quite territorial,will attack other fish and are a pain to catch and remove.

Just a heads up:
After cycle you will probably see a hair algae and diatoms bloom. Siphon diatoms from the sand bed and eventually they will starve themselves. Hair algae will be removed only when you have low nitrates and phosphates. If you can't keep it under control get a GFO and GAC reactor or maybe a refugium with chaeto or any macroalgae you prefer. Or even dose vodka, but I would wait to have a better experience before vodka dosing.

If you notice cyanobacteria or slime, then you don't have enough flow in that part of the tank and excess of nutrients(nitrates/phosphates) increase flow in that section and remove excess nutrients as above.

timdam · 05/19/2010, 06:24 AM

oh yea, i forgot that i have a sump with a built in refugium. i already have some rubble, sand, and cheato in there. and a red branching thing.

another question... WHEN TESTING WATER, CAN I DO IT RIGHT AFTER MY WATER CHANGE? OR SHOULD I WAIT A DAY, LET THINGS SET PLACE, AND THEN DO THE TEST?

05/18/2010, 08:08 PM	#1
timdam Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 815	a few questions about my new tank and cycling.... so i just set up my tank. live sand. dry marco rock. added a piece of shrimp and a live rock to help start the cycle. i plan on waiting a month before adding stuff. questions are: 1. after two weeks, do a 20% water change, and test water. if okay, then add clean up crew? is that right? 2. after a month, if water tests right, do a 10% water change and then add a fish? or add a few corals first? does it matter? 3. it's been a week. and the one piece of live rock that i added has bubbles and is kinda greenish. is that good or bad? 4. is there anything else i should be doing or looking out for while waiting for my tank to cycle? can someone walk me thru this? thanks.

05/18/2010, 09:52 PM	#5
Palting Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Ohio Posts: 6,912	OK. People on this board will crucify me for this, but here is what I suggest. It is definitely hard staring at an empty tank watching a rock develop bubbles and turn kinda greenish. Patience is a virtue I personally do not have. So, you've got "live" sand, added dead shrimp on day one, a live rock sometime later. Got any other filter going? It is now a week out. Your tank definitely has not cycled. So what? Who gives a you know what? You want something to happen and something to do other than watch that rock turn "kinda green". So, go get maybe 2 or 3 dwarf hermits and a cheap hardy fish like a damsel or 2. Feed miserly. Check your parameters frequently, and keep a log. If ammonia starts to rise, start your water changes, about 20% a week, or more frequently depending on how fast the ammonia rises or how your livestock are doing. Make marks on your tank and take note of how much water and how much salt you need to mix for a 20% WC so it becomes a habit you don't have to think about. Between your live rock, live sand, and small bioload, you may not see much of an ammonia rise. This way, you can see something colorful swimmming and something moving in your tank, you learn and get adept at water testing and water changing, learn to keep a log, and your tank will be cycled before you know it. You can then return the damsel or two for credit on something else, or keep them if you wish. Seems better than just waiting for that rotten dead shrimp to be eaten by bacteria, turn into ammonia, then nitrite, then nitrate. BTW, bubbles on the rock are OK for a new tank. You may even see bubbles on your live sand. Your rocks will turn brown from diatoms before they turn green from algae. If you want to do the patience thing, just keep everything unchanged, do nothing, with no livestock until you see the rocks start getting brown from a diatom or brown "algae" bloom. Then check your parameters to see if you are ready for livestock. __________________ Anything I post is just an opinion. One of many in this hobby. Believe and follow at your own risk of rapid and complete annihilation of all life in your tank :) Current Tank Info: Incept 3/2010, 150 RR, 50g sump, 20g fuge, 150w 15K MH x3, T5 actinics x8, moonlight LED x6, 1400gph return, Koralia 1400 x4, 300 g skimmer, 4 tangs, 2 mandarins, 2 perc, 6 line, 3 cardinals, 2 firefish, SPS, LPS, zoas, palys, shrooms, clam Last edited by Palting; 05/18/2010 at 09:59 PM.

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05/18/2010, 09:06 PM	#2
timdam Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 815	anybody? shane hoffman? anybody?

05/18/2010, 09:22 PM	#3
Kxracer704 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Southeast PA Posts: 50	1.) I have read, not to do a water change during the cycle. It just slows the process down. Your are trying to build up bacteria in your tank, and doing a water change would not do any harm, but just slow it down. you said you aren't going to add anything for a month. But then you also said that in 2 weeks your going to add a CUC??......I would just wait the full month to make sure your tank is cycled, then add the CUC.

05/18/2010, 09:38 PM	#4
thegrun Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Garden Grove, Ca Posts: 17,023	1. With only one piece of live rock, I would not worry about a water change 2 weeks in, it will not slow your cycle down, but it is not necessary unless there are some life forms on the live rock that you are trying to protect by lowering the ammonia level. 2. I would make a 20-25% water change when the initial cycle is complete. Do not add a clean-up crew until the cycle is complete. I prefer to add coral first, but many go with fish. In the end, there isn't much of a difference. 3. Bubbles (from algae or diatoms) are part of the cycle. If you get a large algae bloom, you probably are running your lights to long. I would only run them 4 hours max, if at all. 4. Monitor ammonia levels, they should spike then drop to zero. Next watch the nitrite levels, they will also spike then drop to zero. When both ammonia and nitrites have been at zero for a week, add your clean up crew, wait another week and then corals or one fish a week (you can add several corals at a time).

05/18/2010, 10:00 PM	#7
timdam Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 815	another question... i have a 45 gallon tank. what CUC package would yall recommend me getting from this site? http://www.saltwaterfish.com/Reef-Packages_c_2.html

05/18/2010, 10:19 PM	#8
kev24k Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: miami Posts: 120	Its not an exact science. You can't say after two weeks add this. 4 day later add that. It just depends on how your tank is progressing.

05/18/2010, 10:44 PM	#9
timdam Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 815	i have led's. should i even run my lights during the cycle? is there a difference either way?

05/19/2010, 12:06 AM	#10
Think_Reef Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 51	i left my lights off for the duration of the cycle with no ill effects. The only thing that will come from your lights being on is possibly increased algae growth.

05/19/2010, 01:52 AM	#11
Lemeshianos Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Limassol, Cyprus Posts: 468	A raw shrimp in a tank with live rock, will only add nitrates and phosphates in the water column. There is no need for something to kick start the cycle. Everything you need is on the rock. If the rock is cured, it will have a good population of de-nitrifying bacteria and you will have a short cycle. If the rock is not cured, it will have enough die-off to start the cycle which will last longer in this case. Water changes are not needed unless there is something on the rock that you want to preserve. For example I wouldn't let ammonia go over 0.5ppm. If nothing is needed to be preserved I would do a water change after the cycle to lower the nitrates. Depending on what you plan to add first, you adjust the volume of the water change. If you want corals I would do a water change that would drop nitrates to <5ppm. If only fish initially I would just change 20% of the water. I wouldn't add anything in during cycle, especially an invertebrate as they are a more sensitive organism than fish. Also while damsels are hardy fish, they are quite territorial,will attack other fish and are a pain to catch and remove. Just a heads up: After cycle you will probably see a hair algae and diatoms bloom. Siphon diatoms from the sand bed and eventually they will starve themselves. Hair algae will be removed only when you have low nitrates and phosphates. If you can't keep it under control get a GFO and GAC reactor or maybe a refugium with chaeto or any macroalgae you prefer. Or even dose vodka, but I would wait to have a better experience before vodka dosing. If you notice cyanobacteria or slime, then you don't have enough flow in that part of the tank and excess of nutrients(nitrates/phosphates) increase flow in that section and remove excess nutrients as above.

05/19/2010, 06:24 AM	#12
timdam Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 815	oh yea, i forgot that i have a sump with a built in refugium. i already have some rubble, sand, and cheato in there. and a red branching thing. another question... WHEN TESTING WATER, CAN I DO IT RIGHT AFTER MY WATER CHANGE? OR SHOULD I WAIT A DAY, LET THINGS SET PLACE, AND THEN DO THE TEST?