New tank setup/plans

[Schoeny]

Ok, I'm just going to let that other thread fall to the wayside, since it was all about a different size tank anyway... (the one that got away )

Anyway, I am now set up with a 29 Gallon tank. Have a single NO 24" T12 strip light.



I am planning on painting the back of the tank with a black metallic spray paint tomorrow evening.

I'm not going to run a sump, skimmer or filter to start, see how it goes without for a while. Tomorrow I'm going to pick up 20lbs of sand from the store, figure that'll be about 1" to 1.5" deep.

Also have a guy I found on CL that is selling me 28 lbs of live rock and two Koralia 3 powerheads (850gph) for $75. That is a steal He says the rock has feather dusters inhabiting it. He just tore down his tank to sell it, and they've been in a Rubbermaid tub with a heater for a week.

I figure I'll throw in the live rock and sand and a couple clowns to start the cycle (just kidding, no clowns). Run that for a month and start to add in snails/shrimp to start the bio load.

Sorry for the long post. Questions:

1) Is that rock "cycled"? If I drop it in with the sand, is it going to stay alive for the most part? Do I want feather dusters?

2) Am I going to want both powerheads in a 29 gallon or will that be to much current?

[Fizz71]

Keep the rock as wet as possible and you might not lose a whole lot. You may even find yourself with no cycle so test ammonia, nitrite and nitrate every day or two and see if it even blinks.

And the 2x850s might be a bit much for your sand, you'll have to see.

[motortrendz]

no filters?? u gonna use chaeto atleast?? what r u gonna do for oxygenation??

[reefvilla]

If it was me I would cycle the tank with pure Ammonia. In two-three weeks the tank will be cycled and ready to go....
You need to read more from books or on the internet about saltwater. This is not something you can just throw your hands up and say your gonna "try" this for awhile.
What type of bulbs are in the fixture?

Koralias have a pretty broad flow so it might be ok with both of them, depending on what the needs of your tank are.

[crazy4reefs]

+1 on reefvilla's comments...if you jump in without preparing properly you will regret it in the long run...belive me I have a closet full of junk equipment, a serious dent in my retirement savings and a whole lot of regret for diving into this hobby without preparing properly...by finding this site early you already made a postive step towards a rewarding experience in this hobby...don't rush.

[Schoeny]

I've been reading until my heads spins lately... Not that I know as much as either of you, but I'm not totally uninformed.

The "try it for a while" comment was a little misinterpreted. I have seen several threads of people who are running tanks with no sump/skimmer, they just keep the water churning and the surface moving. Is that not a viable way to keep it going? I plan on 10-20% water changes weekly, so wouldn't that replace some of themechanical filtration?

Also, with only shrimp/snails, a blenny and two clowns, is heavy filtration a must? It is a relatively low bioload until I can get the bigger tank and expand. They are all I will have except for the 28lbs of rock and the sand.

The bulb in the fixture is a 30W NO bulb. I'd assume it's the standard bulb that comes with any new setup. Should I be looking for an actinic? I've been told on here that it doesn't really matter unless I plan on corals/inverts...

As for the PHs, I figured I'd point one horizontally across the tank, so it ran across the LR and kept the water moving, then one pointed up at the surface to keep the film from forming. Is that how you would do it? I'll get more pictures of the rock positioning on Monday night when I get it.

Thanks again for the help, I'm not trying to sound standoffish, just to confirm what I have read on here to form my opinions.

[zachfishman]

Originally Posted by Schoeny

The bulb in the fixture is a 30W NO bulb. I'd assume it's the standard bulb that comes with any new setup. Should I be looking for an actinic? I've been told on here that it doesn't really matter unless I plan on corals/inverts...

Correct. But for the best color/spectrum balance pick up a 50/50 tube. (or any of those actinic-white jobbies)

As for your filtration needs, I believe it is entirely possible to run a 29gallon (lightly stocked) without a skimmer or dedicated filter - so long as you keep up with water changes and maintain good circulation. I'd highly recommend finding a used powerfilter on the cheap (lots of aquaclears on craigslist) so that you can run a bag of carbon. It'll make your life much easier - and cost you next to nothing.

[zachfishman]

Here's a link to another member's low-tech 29. No skimmer or sump, just routine water changes and a little carbon:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1828762

[Schoeny]

Well, I have a POS filter that came with it, but your saying just run it with a bag of carbon in it instead of the "normal" filter pad? Read that too, but wasn't sure if it was as literal as it sounded.

Do I need that running 24/7 or just a couple days/week like some have suggested to clear the water up a little?

[zachfishman]

Originally Posted by Schoeny

Well, I have a POS filter that came with it, but your saying just run it with a bag of carbon in it instead of the "normal" filter pad? Read that too, but wasn't sure if it was as literal as it sounded.

Do I need that running 24/7 or just a couple days/week like some have suggested to clear the water up a little?

It depends. I used to run a filter cartridge on my very first reef (20gallon) and the carbon helped. Although since you'd be using cartridges every other month the costs would stack up. Can you run it with mechanical filtration only? This would benefit you by increasing flow, and pulling out organic particulates that would eventually contribute to the nutrient load.

I'd still run a small amount of carbon continuously - just to polish the water. Also, my old cartridges acted as a mini refugium for pods. I used to flick them back into the tank and watch the fish eat them.

[Schoeny]

OK, that's sound...

As for cycling... I have some questions on that too.

As I stated above, the LR is coming from a tank that was up and running, and is still in the tank's water with a heater, so I'd assume it is still aquarium ready... How do I go about cycling?

Here's my interpretation from reading around -

1) put the sand in the tank (dry sand) and mix water and add to the tank.

2) Once that mix is heated to the same temp as the LR in the tub, move the LR to the tank, minimizing exposure to the air.

3) Have powerheads running and throw in some food/shrimp to get some ammonia in the tank to get the bacteria going.

4) Water change about once a week, around 20%.

Once all levels stabilize/drop to zeroish, the tank has cycled. Then add some CUC members and watch the level for a few more weeks before finding fish.

Is that right? Please correct anything wrong, I want to keep the LR as diverse and healthy as possible, as well as minimize cycle time.

[lcs]

That sounds good. I don't think you need or want to change the water while cycling. I would add the water to the tank and then the sand; one advantage is that you could mix the water right in the tank. Just be sure to leave room for the possible addition of RO/freshwater to get the salinity right and for the rocks. You also might want to consider putting the rocks on the glass just in case you want some kind of burrowing creature down the road (ie yellow watchman goby/shrimp pair, small wrasse, etc).

HTH!

[DainHanson]

Thats about right. I would wash the sand before putting it the tank though. Putting it in dry and then adding water will leak any tiny particles or even toxins into the water, clouding it and making it very dirty. Just get a clean bucket and run some fresh water through it before putting it in and it should cut a lot of this down. No harm in putting it in wet. Id also put a sheet of plastic or something on top of the sand when adding the water to the tank. This will keep any left overs debris from kicking up into the water.

bring a cooler to transport the rock (I doubt the guy is going to give you the whole tub its in). You just want to keep it moist, its too hard to transfer completely submerged. The little die off it will have should be enough to kick start the cycle, but if you don't get any ammonia readings after the first day or two you may want to throw in the food/shrimp and keep testing.

HTH

[Schoeny]

Update...

Went to Petco last night to get a new glass top and sand and salt.

Also grabbed a trash can for RO/DI and some spray paint (metallic black). Paint came out pretty good, but it's hard to see through that "smoke" like stuff on the tank. It's weird because when it's wet, it completely disappears, but it always comes back when dry, and a razor won't take it off... Anyone else seen that or know how to take care of it?

Initial Appearance:


Painting:


After paint (no lights):


After pain (with lights):

[crazy4reefs]

it sounds like you may have calcium build up on the glass...try using vinegar to remove it...Otherwise it sounds like you are off to a good start

[Schoeny]

How do you use the vinegar? I tried using it earlier, would put it on, wait 5-10 minutes, then try to razor again, but no dice.

Is there a special method I'm missing?

[crazy4reefs]

no that's all I ever did...strange

[Schoeny]

Alright,

I just got my 75GPD RO/DI unit from Buckeye Field Supply (for the record, I ordered at 9:00 EST on Wednesday, within three minutes I had an email confiming my shipping address, and five minutes after that, I had a UPS tracking number. Unit was here Friday when I left town for the weekend.)

I went to Lowe's last night and got my tapping valve, got the unit up and running.

I didn't not order an auto-shutoff valve. Started filling my 32 gallon trash can at 9:00, and after some quick math, figured it would be close to full when I got up at 6:30 this morning.

At 6:30 I had 31.999999999 Gallons of water in the can lol.

Tonight I am going to mix water in the tank.

Tomorrow I am going to pick up the live rock and power heads, and will add it to the tank to start the cycle tomorrow night. Hopefully it doesn't last too long, but I'm looking forward to it.

Should I put the sand in tonight or wait until after the rock?

I don't have alot of sand (about 1"), and I won't be stacking the rocks too high, and plan on burying them in the sand, not setting it on top. Can I put the sand in tonight to get it to settle quicker? Is it bad for a power head to be running with a snadstorm in the tank? That's why I'm considering putting it in tonight.

[crazy4reefs]

Is this "live sand"? If it is I would mix the salt water seperately, meaning not in the tank itself.
with live sand I would:
1. allow water to mix and airate(not sure on the spelling of that one) and get up to the proper tempature overnight
2. add the live sand to the tank, cover it with plastic to reduce stirring it up as you add water
3.add the water
4. remove the plastic
5. and finally add live rock.

if it isn't live sand I would:

1. add the sand
2. cover with plastic,
3. add water
4. remove plastic
5. add salt, heater and powerhead
6. wait 24 hrs then add live rock

[Schoeny]

OK, new news...

I got the LR yesterday, along with the 2 powerheads, and a 200W heater.

Had the sand and the water in the tank since Sunday night, just sitting there cooking. Yesterday I aquascaped and put in the powerheads, but was getting some disturbance of the sand bed and didn't have time to mess with the placement to fix it so I shut them off overnight.

This morning, the feather dusters had re-emerged and most of the sand had settled again. I also got a couple crabs from the guy that would have been tossed otherwise, and a bristleworm or two he thinks. I've read they aren't a big deal unless they are fireworms, so I tossed them in.

I'll get some pics up later tonight, but was curious what you though I should do for the PH placement? I had one about 1/2 down the side, pointing up to stir the surface, and one about 1/3 down on the other side running across the front of the live rock.

The one pointing up seemed to be the one making the sand on the other side all start to drift away. Any suggestions? I have the rock pretty evenly spread across the tank, coming out about half of the width and half the height.

[Tilmo2180]

The sand will move around until its comfortable, eventually it will stop though. In my tank it took about a week for the sand to completely stop moving around, I ended up with nice natural look though. Little peaks and dips and whatnot.

[Schoeny]

Yeah, I had one spot though that was down to the glass on the bottom, and that was a little too much movement lol.

I'll get pics up tonight after I fiddle with the PHs some more. Hopefully most of the sandstorm has settled today.

[Schoeny]

As promised here are pics...

There is flake food swirling around to either get the cycle started or to ensure the rock is capable of handling fish. I put a little in yesterday, so I expected some Ammonia.

Params today were:
Ammonia: 25 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Nitrate: 0 ppm
pH: 8.6
Temp: 79 F
Salinity: 1.024

Full tank shot:


Feather Duster Close up:


Crab in the tank:


Obviously, I'm going to have to start using the wife's camera, cell phone shots are not doing it justice

[mihamlet]

Looks like you are on a good track. Be patient with the cycle and don't add too much at once.