need help deciding DSB Vs Plenum vs Refugium options for Reef setup.

[RicoHorton]

hi guys and ladies
not new to the hobby but returning to the reef tank setup. trying to decide between using a remote refugium with dsb or mudd, or remote plenum system ala Goemans? i was also just considering dsb remote no refugium which would require no light. i have seen some setups with just remote dsb that looked good in an aquarium store. not sure what will be best for keeping nitrates down for a 55gal glass tank? i don't want to put a dsb in the main tank as i have read that if there is problems it is easier to fix problems in the remote system vs in the main tank. also am wondering about the refugium setup that uses bio balls and miracle mudd/caulerpa in the refugium with no skimmer in use?
thx
rico

[sjm817]

RicoHorton


To Reef Central

If you want something that is good for nutrient export, a lit refugium with macro algae is what you want. Use chaeto for the macro. No sand, bio balls of mud. Just macro.

[RicoHorton]

Originally Posted by sjm817

RicoHorton


To Reef Central

If you want something that is good for nutrient export, a lit refugium with macro algae is what you want. Use chaeto for the macro. No sand, bio balls of mud. Just macro.

thanks for the response. but why no mud? is it at all feasible to have DSB and fug with Macro in the same compartment? in other words instead of a layer of mud have 6 inches dsb?

[sjm817]

IME, no. You need a ton of flow over the DSB for it to do anything and then its questionable. Macro works. Its a plant, it takes in NO3, PO4. You prune it and remove it from the system. There is no doubt that you are exporting nutrients. Miracle mud is just...snake oil.

[outy]

After trying sand at different times ect I only run a BB [bare bottom] fuge and it so much easier to clean the junk and detritus out then having it burried up in the sand.

I like macro only and prefere chaeto.

like sjm says the rest is snake oil at best

[RicoHorton]

okay guys so then chaeto BB refugium it is. so will it be better to use the skimmer before or after the fug? i noticed some fug using it before the fug and some after and wonder which is better? i am thinking before the fug. also i notice allot of filter socks being used on some refugium sumps anyone have experience with these? and is it really necessary to use these in a refugium? i am thinking of using filter sock coz it makes sense to me to capture as much detritus as possible and remove it from the sump before it breaks down into the water column returning to the main tank.

[gasman059]

Macro works. Its a plant, it takes in NO3, PO4

IMO in order for macro to work you need a fuge the size of a swimming pool to be effective plus maintenance is wayyyyyy to cumbersome.

effective skimming water changes and an external nutrient export is all you need.

BTW I've had plenums/fuges/ and DSB

[RicoHorton]

Originally Posted by gasman059

IMO in order for macro to work you need a fuge the size of a swimming pool to be effective plus maintenance is wayyyyyy to cumbersome.

effective skimming water changes and an external nutrient export is all you need.

BTW I've had plenums/fuges/ and DSB

hi gasman
please explain more on external nutrient export? are you talking biological filtration? so you do not recommend either of the three types of filtration plenums/fuges/DSB?
thanx

[jkapit]

Originally Posted by RicoHorton

hi guys and ladies
not new to the hobby but returning to the reef tank setup. trying to decide between using a remote refugium with dsb or mudd, or remote plenum system ala Goemans? i was also just considering dsb remote no refugium which would require no light. i have seen some setups with just remote dsb that looked good in an aquarium store. not sure what will be best for keeping nitrates down for a 55gal glass tank? i don't want to put a dsb in the main tank as i have read that if there is problems it is easier to fix problems in the remote system vs in the main tank. also am wondering about the refugium setup that uses bio balls and miracle mudd/caulerpa in the refugium with no skimmer in use?
thx
rico

I have had a 180g tank up and running for 7 years. I put in a large refugium about 12 months ago and think it has really helped. It has pretty much starved out my bubble algae in my main tank.

The fuge was custom made out of a 50 Gallon acrylic tank placed after my sump. The return water goes int the sump first and through filter socks, then skimmed then into the fuge which is plumbed in-line after the sump. I am probably running about 1000 GPH through the refugium, maybe a bit less due to head pressure since the sump is in the basement.

I also went from bare bottom for about 6 months to a 6" deep sand bed and grow chaeto. My sand bed seems to stay clean w/o any maintenance, and I use 6700K compacts over the fuge and trim the chaeto every two weeks.

All in all I think it has made a meaningful difference in the display tank. Good nutrient export and it gives the critters/pods a place to grow.

[sjm817]

I have a 30L as a fuge and it definitely works. It is not my only source of filtration though. I also run a good skimmer and some GAC. I've run with no fuge, a dark fuge with DSB and LR, a lit fuge with DSB, rock and macro, and the BB macro only fuge. The macro only fuge has helped more rthan any of the others. My PO4 and NO3 are undetectable with hobby grade (salifert) test kits. I always had some reading of NO3 without it.

Yes, I see many fuges that are too small to do any good. It doesn't need to be swimming pool sized, but needs to be decent size. IMO and IME, using some of the space for DSB or LR is just a waste. Use all you can for macro growth.

[Gary Majchrzak]

did anybody find out what kind of reef animals Rico wants to maintain in his 55?

I mean... my recommendations would be different depending on what's going to be in it.

[sjm817]

Related to Gary's point is what is the refugium primarily for? Is it a real "refuge" for growing animals, or is it a filter for nutrient export? As far as pods go, my chaeto only fuge has tons of them.

[RicoHorton]

i primarily will be going with soft corals. i don't want the heat of halides and energy consumption. i am also real interested in the rise in LED lighting sources for reef. i just got an Email back from Marineland who told me to hold out for couple months on the lighting as i will be surprised at the hanging LED lights that will be coming out. i have an LED light system i am ordering for the refugium as well. from articles i have read some have been experimenting with LED for reef lighting.
thx for all the input and positive feedback.

[RicoHorton]

check out this youtube post on DIY LED lights on his tank. there are some more powerful systems out there this is just one that i found on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1lnp-GYsP0

[RicoHorton]

so i am thinking of trying Scott suggestion of macro only refugium. the glass refugium sump i have is 24Lx12Wx14H. the fuge compartment is 10Lx10Wx14H so Scott do you think this will be big enough macro area for the 55? i also want to get a good skimmer to run before the fuge. i am going to order a cpr filter sock adapter to the sump.



I am also wanting to get a better skimmer and thinking of the 'Reef Octopus Skimmer. anyone use these or have a good suggestion for an in sump skimmer that will fit aprox 10"x6" foot print?

[RicoHorton]

i don't know if this sump is a good design? it does not seem to me it would keep the water level constant in the refugium area accept to where the smaller baffles are.

[110galreef]

ok....for a cheato/macro only fuge for nutrient export.....What would be on the small size and avg size for a 225 gallon tank.

Any live rock in it? or no??

Considering a sump w/ just skimmer & baffles or with a fuge?

[RicoHorton]

Originally Posted by 110galreef

ok....for a cheato/macro only fuge for nutrient export.....What would be on the small size and avg size for a 225 gallon tank.

Any live rock in it? or no??

Considering a sump w/ just skimmer & baffles or with a fuge?

well from the responses i have received it seems the chaeto only fuge is the way to go. do away with the nutrient sink of a dsb idea in the fuge and use all the fuge space for chaeto. i have a 20 gallon sump that i picked up at petco of all places 30x12x12 tank for $1 per gallon. i will be putting black acrylic dividers in it for the fuge. filter sock hanger for pre-filter export. good protein skimmer before the fuge in with the filter sock compartment. after the fuge the pump return and heater compartment. for 225 gallon you easily could go with a 40 to 55 gallon sump i would imagine. you can probably pick up a 40 gallon glass Aqueon breeder tank for 40 bucks at Petco to build your fuge.

[sjm817]

On my setup, the sump is a 75G and I run a 30L for the fuge. For a 225, I would also try for a 30 - 40G fuge.