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Unread 09/25/2010, 11:56 AM   #1
R.Ram
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Skimmer AND Sump?

I've been reading and thinking about sumps for the past three days and I thought it would be a lot of fun to do so, but I really don't want to invest into a return pump and the cost of running it.

So I was looking at my skimmer, its a Reef Octopus BH-100F (HOB), and realized it pretty much already is a sump, granted it wasn't already created to act like one and I missed out on that. I mean, it has its own overflow box and pump, and it has three chambers. I've taken out all of the sponges and media it came with and so now all it does is run water through it and skim and with a good amount of live rock, it shouldn't be visible from behind the tank.

Considering that if I could drill it since its just heavy plastic, would it be a good idea to "add" a few chambers to make a sequence. [1]Pump[2]Skimming[3]Heater > and then "waterfall" on to [4/5]carbon, live rock, chaeto, or any of the sort, or are there any risks or faults I am not thinking about?


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Unread 09/25/2010, 12:26 PM   #2
Sisterlimonpot
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So, you're wanting to convert a HOB skimmer into a skimmer and refugium. Do you have any pictures?


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Unread 09/25/2010, 12:29 PM   #3
Dustin1300
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I'd check out melevsreef and get a better idea of how sumps work.

First off....

- How are you going to overflow to the sump?
- What size is your DT?
- How much room do you have for a sump?

To better visualize....Lets say from left to right in the sump you have section 1, 2, and 3.
Section 2 will be lower with baffles on each side of it to eliminate microbubbles. Section 1 will have the overflow come in the corner (preferably with a bubble tower) and skimmer in this section. Water will then go to middle section (2) which will have the return pump. From this return pump you go straight up and have a T so you can have a slow flow that goes into section 3 (fuge). Above the T and to the right you will have a valve to control flow to section 3 and the DT. I'm trying to find a picture so you have a better idea. I did not have the room for a fuge under my 75 so it just comes in on right side and returns on left side.


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Unread 09/25/2010, 12:32 PM   #4
HanoverFist
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For what you're thinking you might be best off picking up a HOB refugium (or making one) then plumbing from the skimmer to the refugium then then back into the tank. Hacking a bunch of things onto the skimmer will most likely result in you finding out murphy's law > gravity > silicone.

BUT a sump is more than just these things. Its extra water, a hidden area for equipment to hide and a safe place to maintain water levels and add chemicals. Consider all this too. A true sump is worth the effort.


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Unread 09/25/2010, 12:38 PM   #5
Gary Majchrzak
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I'm not a fan of HOB anything.

The basic concept of (heavy!) water hanging in a plastic container from the side of an aquarium is a bad idea IMO.

Never "waterfall" water directly onto carbon because pulverized fines can cause HLLE in fishes.

Do it right the first time!


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Unread 09/25/2010, 12:55 PM   #6
R.Ram
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sisterlimonpot View Post
So, you're wanting to convert a HOB skimmer into a skimmer and refugium. Do you have any pictures?
That is exactly right. A picture of what exactly? I can make a model of what I was considering, but that will take at least an hour and it wouldn't involve any physics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustin1300 View Post
I'd check out melevsreef and get a better idea of how sumps work.

First off....

- How are you going to overflow to the sump?
- What size is your DT?
- How much room do you have for a sump?

To better visualize....Lets say from left to right in the sump you have section 1, 2, and 3.
Section 2 will be lower with baffles on each side of it to eliminate microbubbles. Section 1 will have the overflow come in the corner (preferably with a bubble tower) and skimmer in this section. Water will then go to middle section (2) which will have the return pump. From this return pump you go straight up and have a T so you can have a slow flow that goes into section 3 (fuge). Above the T and to the right you will have a valve to control flow to section 3 and the DT. I'm trying to find a picture so you have a better idea. I did not have the room for a fuge under my 75 so it just comes in on right side and returns on left side.
I understand this, but I am not going for an actual sump. Rather just a small place that is more hidden than not for maintenance on the back of my tank.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HanoverFist View Post
For what you're thinking you might be best off picking up a HOB refugium (or making one) then plumbing from the skimmer to the refugium then then back into the tank. Hacking a bunch of things onto the skimmer will most likely result in you finding out murphy's law > gravity > silicone.

BUT a sump is more than just these things. Its extra water, a hidden area for equipment to hide and a safe place to maintain water levels and add chemicals. Consider all this too. A true sump is worth the effort.
In a sense I would be making a HOB refugium, just at smaller scale serving the purpose of hiding equipment and filtration. I am not interested in the extra water, I am ok with doing more water changes more frequently than if I had a larger volume of water and for now it will be a FOWLR tank and I do not plan on adding chemicals or do any dosing.
However you did answer one of my questions, which was "anything I might not be thinking of" AKA any problems I might run into and you have thus provided "murphy's law > gravity > silicone" which I will look into.
I really would love a real sump, but for what I want for now I don't feel that I need one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Majchrzak View Post
I'm not a fan of HOB anything.

The basic concept of (heavy!) water hanging in a plastic container from the side of an aquarium is a bad idea IMO.

Never "waterfall" water directly onto carbon because pulverized fines can cause HLLE in fishes.

Do it right the first time!
This can be fixed with a flat stand attached to the wall behind the tank under the skimmer to support all or most of the weight. I guess you could say it would be sort of like a TV mount, except it would be underneath the skimmer and not attached to it.

Thanks for that tip! I could just as easily swap the carbon into an area of the skimmer that would just stream water.


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Unread 09/25/2010, 02:09 PM   #7
Dustin1300
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Sorry but did not understand the question as it was a bit confusing. I'd agree with Gary and say try to do a sump in the stand. Your going to have limited area in the back. Also, another part of a sump is that it adds more volume to your system. The more the volume the better the stability when we make small screw ups Less volume means the fluctuation is much larger to your livestock.

Whats the drive to have behind aquarium and not under the aquarium?


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Unread 09/25/2010, 03:18 PM   #8
R.Ram
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustin1300 View Post
Sorry but did not understand the question as it was a bit confusing. I'd agree with Gary and say try to do a sump in the stand. Your going to have limited area in the back. Also, another part of a sump is that it adds more volume to your system. The more the volume the better the stability when we make small screw ups Less volume means the fluctuation is much larger to your livestock.

Whats the drive to have behind aquarium and not under the aquarium?
No problem! I know that it adds more volume, but I am not worried about mistakes in terms of chemicals and dosing. Water changes shouldn't be prone to deadly mistakes.

My drive would be MONEY! Hahah! I don't want to pay a hundred for a return pump that uses 50W while I'm in COLLEGE! If I am going to throw down money, I want it to be a single payment or atleast have a very minimal electrical usage. Oh and I like to DIY too.

Let me make myself a little more clear. My intention was to have a place to hide all accessories including the heater, while providing a steady flow for water to stream through carbon, chaeto, or whatever else I decide to put in. They each would have their own chambers, so they would have enough space to make an effect, in my opinion, while being hidden, a small part of what a sump does. Forgive me if my use of the word sump has thrown everything out of proportion. I think it is a very simple and relatively effective idea, but I ask for approval because maybe I will start to go through with my project and find "oh whoops, looks like it won't work because--!" But if no one has anyone objections to it I will go through with it and see how it goes. Now to research these laws that have been posted.


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Unread 09/25/2010, 03:24 PM   #9
R.Ram
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HanoverFist View Post
murphy's law
I just want to say, I cracked up when I read this. I have never heard of such thing and I took it like it was a serious scientific law!!!"


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