Best for FO tank

[Capt. Dooner]

I was told the other day from a guy at a fish store (20y exp), that I do not need a skimmer for my fish only tank. He also recommended that I at least put in 1 lb per gallon of live rock (display and refuge/sump) and no more chaeto algae.
I want to do this right and make the fish as happy as I can. They are so great for me to watch and keep calm, but things just don't seem to be working as I think it should.

170 gallon display
40 gallon fuge/sump
4600 Lp/h pump on full

I did some searching which confused me even more. I need good advice.

Thank you guys in advance.

[chimmike]

I would most certainly run a skimmer on a fish only tank. Skimmers help remove a lot of the funk from the fish.

[spamreefnew]

i think a skimmer is a must for a fish only and an option for a reef. when i had lionfish without a skimmer i always had problems ,,,when i added a cheap skimmer the tank almost took care of itself!

[billdogg]

Strictly speaking, you don't NEED a skimmer for any tank. Will it make your life easier??? You betcha. The more gunk you can pull out before you rely on your biological filtration the better, IMO.

As far as the 1lb of rock/gallon rule - well, that depends...... How dense is the rock? If it is a nice porous reef rock, you could easily fill the tank to the top and still not get it to 1lb/gallon. If it is very dense, you might only need 1 medium sized rock. The bottom line on rock (especially in the tank) is this: Use as much as you need to to make it look the way you want it to look. No more, no less.

And then there is the cheato thing. My fish only tank (a 150g housing a 4' Undulated moray, with a 120g refugium and 50g sump) uses both a DSB and Cheato to help with the inevitable nitrate problems inherent to a FO system.

I also have a generous amount of rubble rock in the sump and refugium to help with the biological filtration. IMHO, you can NEVER over skim or over filter the tank. The
denitrifying bacteria will increase in population as the bioload increases. Giving them more places to live can only be a good thing.

Another thing you may want to consider is a GFO reactor to help battle phosphates.Both the TLF and BRS brands are very easy to setup/use.

HTH?

[Palting]

No, you do not need a skimmer for a fish only.

You do need biological filtration. Live rock is ideal, but for a fish only tank you can use cannister filters, wet/dry, etc.

The main difference between a reef tank and a fish only tank is that fish can tolerate nitrates well, while reef not at all. So, for a reef you need EXTRA things to cut the nitrate down, like refugiums, skimmers and what not. Reef also need to have phospahtes and silicates removed, as well as have calcium, alk and what not added, so you need reactors, dosers, etc, etc

I had a fish only (or mostly fish anyway) 75 tank for 5 years serviced only by a wet/dry sump with bioballs with floss prefilters and a HOB for carbon. No powerheads, no live rock, no skimmers, no reactors, no GFO, no RO/DI, no live substrate (just a 1" substrate of some kind of marine sand). Kept a yellow tang, 2 angels, 2 clowns, a coppperband, a few cleaner shrimp and I forget what else. No probems for those 5 years.

[lordofthereef]

I'd still get the skimmer. Put quite simply, it is going to help more than it is going to hurt. Some make the argument that our water can be "too clean" in a reef for some corals (namely softies), but "too clean" is never going to be an issue for the fish you keep. I am still shocked at the amount of crud I am able to pull out of my FOWLR on a daily basis. Having seen all that comes out, I wouldn't think about NOT running a skimmer at this point. Also not sure why this person recommends against a fuge with macro in it? Maybe he/she is wanting you to do a wet/dry system?

[lordofthereef]

Originally Posted by Palting

I had a fish only (or mostly fish anyway) 75 tank for 5 years serviced only by a wet/dry sump with bioballs with floss prefilters and a HOB for carbon. No powerheads, no live rock, no skimmers, no reactors, no GFO, no RO/DI, no live substrate (just a 1" substrate of some kind of marine sand). Kept a yellow tang, 2 angels, 2 clowns, a coppperband, a few cleaner shrimp and I forget what else. No probems for those 5 years.

What did you do about hiding spots for your fish? I imagine it wasn't just a big open tank with fish in it, right?

[aleonn]

A good skimmer, even for a FO tank, is one of the best investments imo. The fish would be a lot happier, and the tank would look a lot nicer. I swiched from a HOB power filter to an AquaC Remora HOB skimmer, and the difference was night and day.

[Palting]

Originally Posted by lordofthereef

What did you do about hiding spots for your fish? I imagine it wasn't just a big open tank with fish in it, right?

I had one rock of some kind, a plastic fake rock mountain. And some cheesy plastic stuff. Don't ask what they were, or I will lie to you . This was about 20 years ago.

[RocketSurgeon]

A skimmer is not required, but comes highly recommended.

Put approx 1lb to 1.5 lbs of live rock per gallon of water in your tank for filtration and remember to add plenty of flow, or it all becomes a detrius trap.

Many of us choose to add cheato to the sump/refugium, to help consume/decrease nitrates.

There are many different avenues to run a fish only or FOWLR system. Proper maintenance with most, will leave you successful.


http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...t2003/chem.htm

[dwculp]

You dont NEED a skimmer on any tank, but they certainly help!! A skimmer on your FO tank will keep the water cleaner, clearer and your fish healthy. In fact, if you are doing a large FO tank with large predatory fish a skimmer would help a LOT as those fish tend to be waste factories!!!

[Stuart60611]

I think you will find that a skimmer is in some ways even more important on a fowlr than a reef system. Remember, with a fowlr, you keep typically large fish who produce lots of poop and much more waste than your typical reef fish. Moreover, you generally have to feed much larger amounts of food in a fowlr than a reef system because of the large fish kept, and therefore, you usually have lots of resulting food particles which do not get eaten and rot in the system. Finally, you usually cannot house inverts to help eat uneaten food and keep nuisance algae in check because your fish will eat them.

Under these circumstances, a skimmer becomes very important as one of main ways to export nutrients before they negatively contribute to nitrate and phosphate. I would add that I have yet to see anyone be able to maintain a nuisance algae free heavily stocked fowlr without carbon dosing (whether liquid via vodka, vinegar, etc. or solid via pellets). To carbon dose, you must have a good skimmer. As mentioned above, there is no hard and fast rule on how much rock you need because the amount of rock required will largely depend on the density or porousity of the particular rock. Whether or not to use macro algae to assist in nutrient control is a personal choice, however, it has been my experience that the use of macro algae does not work well when carbon dosing.

In a fowlr, I suggest you get the best skimmer that you can afford, and error on the side of oversizing the skimmer within reason for your size system. Keeping a fowlr which is heavily stocked not overrun with nuisance algae is not an easy task, and imo very difficult to achieve without a very effective skimmer. In my heavily stocked fowlr, I find that if my skimmer is only off line for 24 hours my tank starts to look dirty and nusiance algae starts to take hold. I could not see being able to maintain a clean display without my skimmer because I certainly cannot do a sizeable water change every 24 hours. With a large skimmer, lots of highly porous rock, carbon dosing, and large monthly water changes, I am able to keep a fairly clean system (see below).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Me3ojXOpa6Q

[Capt. Dooner]

What if I am running a diatom filter? Would the diatom filter pull out more than the skimmer? It is said that it will keep ich and such out.

Great info and opinions guys. Really want a very low maintenance and trouble free FO or FOWLR tank as possible. You guys are giving me a lot to think about.

[Stuart60611]

Originally Posted by Capt. Dooner

What if I am running a diatom filter? Would the diatom filter pull out more than the skimmer? It is said that it will keep ich and such out.

Great info and opinions guys. Really want a very low maintenance and trouble free FO or FOWLR tank as possible. You guys are giving me a lot to think about.

If low maintenance is what you seek, then a diatom filter is definitely not the way to go. These require a lot of maintenance and clog up very quickly in a marine environment. They also do not pull out organics in the same way a skimmer does. Moreover, although they can reduce the intensity of an ich infestation by reducing the parasite numbers, they will not prevent nor cure an infestation. In short, a diatom filter is something great to run when you want to polish the water or to reduce the intensity of an ich outbreak, but not a good idea to run continuously or as a replacement for a skimmer.

[SquidHC]

+1 to all of the above. You arent required to use a skimmer, but life will be a lot happier for you and your fish.

[spamreefnew]

the diatom is good for weekly/monthly clean-up's but it won't compare to a skimmer when it comes to removing disolved fish waste. my diatom spends most of its time in storage,but i would not be without it when sh*t hits the fan