Reef Central Online Community

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > New to the Hobby
Blogs FAQ Calendar

Notices

User Tag List

Reply
Thread Tools
Unread 11/18/2010, 12:29 PM   #1
Sk8r
RC Mod
 
Sk8r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Spokane WA
Posts: 34,628
Blog Entries: 55
Water: how to have the best: ---an FYI

Water Quality

Ro/di: why? —ro/di filters take EVERYTHING out of the water but water itself. H20. Non-ro/di water can have a TDS (total dissolved solids) of more than 0. Ro/di IS zero. Water conditioners typically remove chlorine and chloramine, and that’s it. That leaves behind dissolved lead, iron, arsenic (in some water supplies), phosphates (agricultural fertilizer), and occasionally even more alarming contaminants.

When you ro/di-filter your water you render it 0. Just 0. Pure as it gets. Purer than distilled—which is sometimes sold with contaminants from the distilling process itself, as the distillate runs back from the condensing area. Ro from a dispenser in your grocery store is almost as good. But that IS dependent on when they last changed out their filter. Having your own little electric TDS meter is a Good Thing in general, and testing anything but 0 tells you there’s something in the water besides water.

Salt mix isn’t just salt. It’s dried seawater, with everything that comes in an ocean. It’s got selenium, boron, etc, etc, in a long list, IN CORRECT PROPORTIONS to make you just like the ocean: so it’s seawater. It’s just clean seawater. Some salt mixes are compounded more for fishkeeping without corals; some for corals AND fish. The difference? Mostly the amount of calcium in the mix.

Maintaining your water quality: first of all, living creatures metabolize the minerals they absorb from the water they ‘drink,’ just as you do. Your regular water changes of 20% a month will ‘refresh’ the water in your tank with the minerals the tank may have ‘used up.’ Brand new tanks, under 6 months of age, often have a honeymoon period of extreme niceness for, say, corals; and then lose that as the water ages. Keeping up with your water changes can keep this balance.

Introducing stony corals means that your calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium levels are going to lunk along fine—until the corals wake up one day (they seem to do it en masse) and start feeding. All of a sudden you’re having to supplement these 3 items bigtime, which is where you head for a kalk drip (tanks under 100 g) or a calcium reactor (over 100 g) or, in fairly rare instance, both. Soft corals are all right without that intense supplementation, but you need to keep up with those three readings, especially as your tank ages.

A fish only tank can certainly benefit from reef-like conditions: I mean, where do these fish like to live, in the wild? They go where the ocean is kind and rich. So if you want to be extra-nice to your fish, and keep them healthy, not only do those water changes faithfully, but pay attention to your alkalinity and calcium levels. You’ll probably rarely, rarely have to supplement calcium, but you may ultimately need to: snails, clams, anything with a skeleton and muscle (including fish) do consume calcium—so test now and again.

Getting rid of phosphates: it’s algae fertilizer, and it comes in bound to rock and sand, it comes in non-ro/di water, and it comes in green fish food. Rather than getting some creature to eat algae (which has to be fed algae when the algae runs out) set up a refugium, which will sop it up, or a granulated ferrous oxide reactor (GFO). These remove phosphate. They can’t get it out of algae, but as algae naturally dies, (which you can hasten along by shortening the photoperiod) it takes phosphate away, and algae ultimately has no food.

Getting rid of nitrates: your sand and rock are adequate if present in the amount of 1 lb per gallon of water...and if not ‘pushed’ by too many fish. Sand and rock as a filter reduce nitrate to nitrogen gas, which is totally harmless. Wet-dry filters and dirty particulate filters and old, forgotten carbon bags are a nitrate problem, because they can't do this final conversion. Sand and rock break nitrate down. So don’t overstock (pushing the tank past the capacity of the sand and rock it can contain.) And have enough sand and rock. If you’re a fish-only, you may also need to have a filter, and that means you have to clean it very often, as in, no gunk buildup. On the other hand, even some fish that are not reef-friendly won’t touch mushrooms or button polyps, which are good water-cleaners, so you might put in a tiny rock with one tough-as-nails little discosoma mushroom (plain, flat, non-fuzzy shroom) to see how it fares with your fish crew. If it grows and multiplies, unmolested, you may see improved water quality and resiliency—and if you see your mushrooms tucked up instead of expanded, it’s a screaming water-alarm that says “test the water!”, particularly the alkalinity, or "do a water change!" This water-alarm feature makes shrooms extremely useful for maintaining fish health. You will, if successful with this, see 'flowers' all over your rockwork. Generally you will see an improvement in water. But this is a matter of your fishes and your lighting...and of course your personal vision for your tank. Shrooms are a choice---and once you have them they are a pita to remove! So decide if you like the look!

These are all options. Remember that water quality is, after all, everything to a fish. Your fish can survive two weeks without food far better than he can survive two hours in bad water. So bend all efforts to keep appropriate fish in an appropriately sized tank, with the absolute best water you can manage. Be prepared with oxygenation for a power-out: a simple bubblewand on a tiny battery powered pump is not the best recourse, but it is a recourse: so is standing on a chair and pouring pitchers of the tank water back in. Not overcrowding your tank means additional survival time for your tank---and since the typical urban power-out is under 8 hours, the ability of a tank to go that long without supplemental oxygen is really important.


__________________
Sk8r

Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low.

Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

Last edited by Sk8r; 11/18/2010 at 12:43 PM.
Sk8r is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11/18/2010, 12:43 PM   #2
shooshoomanz
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Plainville CT
Posts: 79
great post, very informative :] thanks again sk8r for your helpful words!

on my 20 gallon, should i remove my hang over back filter that just has the small fiberfilter bag with carbon in it? it seems to just collect junk like crazy.

you also got me concerned about my corals eventually taking a dump being that i may be seeing this honeymoon effect? i do water changes every two weeks do you think i should be concerned about that effect occuring with frequent water changes?


__________________
20 gall long, 20lbs LR, 25-30lbs LS, T5(10,000k, 420 actinic), 30 gall filter w/carbon bag, Circ pump 500gph, 78'F, pH 8.4, 1.024-1.026sg.

Current Tank Info: 20 gallon long nano reef tank in the works just about to enter its cycle
shooshoomanz is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11/18/2010, 12:56 PM   #3
Sk8r
RC Mod
 
Sk8r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Spokane WA
Posts: 34,628
Blog Entries: 55
i'd be suspicious of that HOB filter if you're seeing any nitrate in your tests; and carbon should be changed weekly: best a little fresh carbon than a big bag of old carbon. It's like a kitchen mop: once full, it just spreads the mess around and makes things worse.

The honeymoon effect is real, which is a good reason to start a logbook while things are good, and continue it. This will contain notes on all your tests in columnar form, notes on what specimens you added, when you did a water change, etc, and reminds you what 'good' is. Frequent water changes are a way of postponing bad stuff. But if you detect a real slide or head toward trouble in a tank, you can do a 30% water change two days apart without real risk, granted your water is well-mixed and the right temp and all.

Another really essential rule: NEVER supplement anything you don't have a test for. Leave the selenium and other supplements alone, no miracle additives, excepting good food for your fish. Supplements outside your regular water changes and calcium, alkalinity buffer, and magnesium (which are essential supplements for good tank health) can get you into reallly BIG trouble for your whole tank. Never add anything without testing, and don't guestimate. Measure. If you screwed a test, re-run it. Write down the result in that little book. Enter your supplement dose, too; and test the following day and see if it was 'enough'. Most supplements take 24 hours to work their way through the water column, so give it time to fully dissolve and do its work before re-testing.


__________________
Sk8r

Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low.

Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.
Sk8r is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11/18/2010, 12:59 PM   #4
Mandragen
Registered Member
 
Mandragen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Lake Norman, North Carolina
Posts: 700
Yeah man, nice informative post that is proactive instead of reactive. Throwing information out for people to read is something that should be done more. Sometimes questions get answered that you don't know you had.


__________________
Oliver

"Live a life uncommon."

Current Tank Info: Falcon
Mandragen is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11/18/2010, 02:28 PM   #5
mgoblue
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Grand Junction, MI
Posts: 149
Want to add my thanks for posting this (and several other very beneficial topics). You are an asset to this forum and you are helping noobs like me be much more successful than we would have been otherwise.

Kudos!


mgoblue is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11/18/2010, 03:24 PM   #6
Sk8r
RC Mod
 
Sk8r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Spokane WA
Posts: 34,628
Blog Entries: 55
Thank you. I try to organize this sort of info into topics, and I do store back topics on my blog, if you'd like to look up certain things like algae, cyano treatments, good emergency kits, etc. I'm certainly happy to do pieces on any topic I know something about. And will tell you if I don't know a thing---but I know people who do, who can give a good answer.


__________________
Sk8r

Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low.

Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.
Sk8r is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11/18/2010, 05:01 PM   #7
johnike
Moved On
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bureau County Illinois
Posts: 5,406
The 'especially as your tank ages' remark made a light bulb go off, my old tank thanks you.


johnike is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
which is best: phosgaurd, phosban or rowaphos deansreef The Reef Chemistry Forum 8 05/13/2008 05:46 PM
Mollies take to salt water: has anybody tried scats for algae? Sk8r Reef Discussion 6 11/07/2006 03:00 PM
RO/DI waste water: Ok to drain into yard? tonypal85 Reef Discussion 11 05/17/2006 09:48 AM
QT tank and 65 degree water: a tale of a broken heater Hal Reef Discussion 3 03/05/2006 01:51 PM
Clear water: UV or OZONE?? Ceak Lighting, Filtration & Other Equipment 2 01/26/2006 04:35 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2025 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright ©1999-2022
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2025 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.