New tank syndrome, alk burn, fragile fish? Input needed...

JTrigger · 11/23/2010, 01:40 AM

Hey all,

I had experience with a reef for 3 yrs back in '03-'06, since went on a hiatus until now. Now I setup a 90galRR tank with 40gal sump, G1 skimmer, setup with LR from an established tank ~75lbs. The tank has been up for 6 weeks now... every week I've been taking readings and have had somewhat unremarkable results aside from a higher alk (latest parameters below as of tonight).

Three weeks in I added a few chromis, pair of clowns, small yellow tang... which lasted ~12d and died... also had added 2 cardinal about 4 wks in and they disappeared within a few days... last, but not least I've had a copperband that has been alive for 3 wks now and now looks like it has a swimbladder issue as it's quite unsteady despite eating worms, mysis, pods, etc. Coral's doing amazing and has since day one including colts, frogspawn, hammer, open brain, donut, rics, shrooms, etc.

Parameters
SG 1.025
Temp 78
Ammonia 0
NO3 0
NO2 0
pH 8.4
Ca 450
dKH ~12

I supp with:
1) Essential Elements
2) Kent Marine Liquid Ca
3) Lugol's solution
4) Brightwell Aquatics Alkalin8.3 KH buffer

Clowns have been fine for the most part aside from minor, transient ich in the female, CBB lasted 3 wks (no visible signs of external ich or parasites), I believe my hawkfish has been killing the cardinals as it's quite an aggressive bully bugger, 2 chromis had also "disappeared", 1 remains...

My assessment is that the tank was too young for the tang and CBB (and the fact that the CBB is fragile by nature doesn't help), hawkfish is pestering the smaller more passive guys like cardinals +/- chromis and is my alk too high so I should stop dosing with this Alkalin8.3 buffer and let it fall to some lower number like 8-10?

Any input would be appreciated!

steelhead77 · 11/23/2010, 04:49 AM

IMO your tank is too young to be using all those supplements. At this stage all you need are regular water changes and all of your trace mineral needs (including cal and alk) will be met just fine. Stop the supplementation and sit back and enjoy your tank. Oh and slow down on the fish additions. Don't add any other fish for at least a month to six weeks (if at all). Add all the corals you want, but still don't supplement until you start to see your cal go down. Weekly water changes will do you fine for many months to come.

Agu · 11/23/2010, 10:36 AM

^ +1

Also, as you realize the hawkfish is aggressive. If you want more passive fish the hawkfish has to go. I would suspect it's more an aggression problem than a chemistry problem.

jmo,

JTrigger · 11/23/2010, 10:57 AM

Yah, wish I would have realized it first before adding the (*!(*#!@ hawkfish. Hate the thing now... but I realize it's just its nature. And aside from tearing down the whole tank, it's virtually impossible to catch.

jefathome · 11/23/2010, 11:25 AM

Many LFS's will have a "fish trap" that you can rent. Either that, or make one with a 2L bottle. Then put a small damsel in the trap as bait and I'm sure your Hawk will go in.

(Joke on the baiting it part of course)

Floowid · 11/23/2010, 12:20 PM

Why do I always have to be the bad guy.

At 6 weeks you should not be putting tangs and butterflies in your tank.

Much less: "Three weeks in I added"... a crapload of sensitive life and expected it to do fine.

JTrigger · 11/23/2010, 12:52 PM

Point taken. I don't think you're the bad guy. I appreciate the input, but wasn't that the same as what was aforementioned by the first reply or did I miss something.

Floowid · 11/23/2010, 03:07 PM

Sorry, I had written some other stuff and then erased it, so you are right, I contributed not much new to the discussion.

I guess it just makes me cranky seeing the same thing over and over again in this forum, but the bright point I should be seeing is that people actually make it to this forum, and eventually get the advice they need to hear. And some of those people actually take that advice, slow down, and are eventually rewarded with a lifelong expensive time consuming hobby XD

JTrigger · 11/23/2010, 06:54 PM

Well, this forum is a wealth of information and I think as long as we're able to learn from mistakes and/or prevent them from not happening then progress is made rather than continue to make the same error and as a result sacrifice countless fish lives

11/23/2010, 01:40 AM	#1
JTrigger Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 383	New tank syndrome, alk burn, fragile fish? Input needed... Hey all, I had experience with a reef for 3 yrs back in '03-'06, since went on a hiatus until now. Now I setup a 90galRR tank with 40gal sump, G1 skimmer, setup with LR from an established tank ~75lbs. The tank has been up for 6 weeks now... every week I've been taking readings and have had somewhat unremarkable results aside from a higher alk (latest parameters below as of tonight). Three weeks in I added a few chromis, pair of clowns, small yellow tang... which lasted ~12d and died... also had added 2 cardinal about 4 wks in and they disappeared within a few days... last, but not least I've had a copperband that has been alive for 3 wks now and now looks like it has a swimbladder issue as it's quite unsteady despite eating worms, mysis, pods, etc. Coral's doing amazing and has since day one including colts, frogspawn, hammer, open brain, donut, rics, shrooms, etc. Parameters SG 1.025 Temp 78 Ammonia 0 NO3 0 NO2 0 pH 8.4 Ca 450 dKH ~12 I supp with: 1) Essential Elements 2) Kent Marine Liquid Ca 3) Lugol's solution 4) Brightwell Aquatics Alkalin8.3 KH buffer Clowns have been fine for the most part aside from minor, transient ich in the female, CBB lasted 3 wks (no visible signs of external ich or parasites), I believe my hawkfish has been killing the cardinals as it's quite an aggressive bully bugger, 2 chromis had also "disappeared", 1 remains... My assessment is that the tank was too young for the tang and CBB (and the fact that the CBB is fragile by nature doesn't help), hawkfish is pestering the smaller more passive guys like cardinals +/- chromis and is my alk too high so I should stop dosing with this Alkalin8.3 buffer and let it fall to some lower number like 8-10? Any input would be appreciated! Last edited by JTrigger; 11/23/2010 at 02:00 AM.

11/23/2010, 04:49 AM	#2
steelhead77 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Albany, Oregon Posts: 1,117	IMO your tank is too young to be using all those supplements. At this stage all you need are regular water changes and all of your trace mineral needs (including cal and alk) will be met just fine. Stop the supplementation and sit back and enjoy your tank. Oh and slow down on the fish additions. Don't add any other fish for at least a month to six weeks (if at all). Add all the corals you want, but still don't supplement until you start to see your cal go down. Weekly water changes will do you fine for many months to come. __________________ This really isn't rocket science - it's more like marine biology. Current tank info: 180 gallon AGA, 40 gallon custom sump, AquaC EV240 skimmer, PM calc reactor, 3x 250w DIY MH, PCI CL-650 Chiller, 2x Koralia 4's, 2x Koralia 2's

11/23/2010, 10:36 AM	#3
Agu Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Sarasota, Florida Posts: 30,279	^ +1 Also, as you realize the hawkfish is aggressive. If you want more passive fish the hawkfish has to go. I would suspect it's more an aggression problem than a chemistry problem. jmo, __________________ Less technology , more biology . Current Tank Info: 30 gallon half cube and 5.5, both reef tanks

11/23/2010, 11:25 AM	#5
jefathome Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Mission Viejo, CA Posts: 2,915	Many LFS's will have a "fish trap" that you can rent. Either that, or make one with a 2L bottle. Then put a small damsel in the trap as bait and I'm sure your Hawk will go in. (Joke on the baiting it part of course) __________________ Without Geometry, life is pointless Current Tank Info: NEW 150g in-wall Solartube display; 60g 4x2ft frag tank; 3g work Pico.... all Reef tanks

11/23/2010, 12:20 PM	#6
Floowid Registered Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Centerville, UT Posts: 712	Why do I always have to be the bad guy. At 6 weeks you should not be putting tangs and butterflies in your tank. Much less: "Three weeks in I added"... a crapload of sensitive life and expected it to do fine. __________________ 75 gallon mixed reef

11/23/2010, 10:57 AM	#4
JTrigger Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 383	Yah, wish I would have realized it first before adding the (!(#!@ hawkfish. Hate the thing now... but I realize it's just its nature. And aside from tearing down the whole tank, it's virtually impossible to catch.

11/23/2010, 12:52 PM	#7
JTrigger Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 383	Point taken. I don't think you're the bad guy. I appreciate the input, but wasn't that the same as what was aforementioned by the first reply or did I miss something. Last edited by JTrigger; 11/23/2010 at 01:04 PM. Reason: Reefer extraordinaire with his crapload of sensitive life...

11/23/2010, 03:07 PM	#8
Floowid Registered Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Centerville, UT Posts: 712	Sorry, I had written some other stuff and then erased it, so you are right, I contributed not much new to the discussion. I guess it just makes me cranky seeing the same thing over and over again in this forum, but the bright point I should be seeing is that people actually make it to this forum, and eventually get the advice they need to hear. And some of those people actually take that advice, slow down, and are eventually rewarded with a lifelong expensive time consuming hobby XD __________________ 75 gallon mixed reef

11/23/2010, 06:54 PM	#9
JTrigger Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 383	Well, this forum is a wealth of information and I think as long as we're able to learn from mistakes and/or prevent them from not happening then progress is made rather than continue to make the same error and as a result sacrifice countless fish lives

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