Plumbing question

[jamgar]

My MDT drains to the under cabinet sump. It looks like a 2 durso stand pipes in the two corner overflows (one in each corner). The pipe dumps freely into the sump and does not touch the water level in the sump. I want to modify the path of one of the two overflow pipes to a second container in another room and then from that container back to my sump. Here is the question; the over flow water level in the MDT is 57" high, and the container in the other room will have a water level of 39". The pipe well enter the room at 26 inches and then back to the sump at 22". I plan on placing the pipe into/ through the container in the other room using a bulkhead and then a return pipe back to the sump where it will freely dump in above the water level. Will this radically change the flow characteristics of my MDT's outflow. the pipe will either have to make a 90 degree turn and enter through the top of the container or enter the container with 13" of water over it.
Thanks

[jamgar]

Any thoughts before I throw away a lot of money drilling this thing, and running all the pipe. Little help please

[jamgar]

Thought you all may need more information. The return from the container (which will be a water changing station in line with a skimmer, reactors and frag tank) is through a bulkhead with a 90 degree elbow rising inside the tank to a water level of 39 inches. This equates to 50 gallons in a small footprint container in an odd shapes room. Being able to dump inline salt water that can be taken off line from the tank with a turn of a valve and refill with 50 gallons of ro/di from a separate water storage container in the same room will make water changes easier. It's a 320 gallon MDT. It is 14 feet there and back
Thanks again, I've been racking my brain about the best way to do this.

[Uncle Salty 05]

If you take one drain offline will the other be able to handle your return pump's volume?

[jamgar]

Thank you for your reply.

The MDT level rises probably to the point of over flow with one of the drain lines completely occluded.

I am thinking it will be O.K. if I tee it off my current set up with the appropriate valves so I can keep the flow pathways I have if needed,and isolate the pipes to the other room if there is a problem.

I will increase the diameter of the pipe from 1.5 to 2 inches starting in the under MDT cabinet to reduce the head pressure of the 14 feet or so of pipe and 10 90degree elbows I will be using (20 elbows and 28 feet if you add the pipe from the MDT to the container and from the container to the return) although this wont help much with the extra 13 inches of head pressure.

I wonder if it would be a better idea to combine the two 1.5 inch drains from the MDT into a single 2 inch drain under the MDT and then run all water drainage from the MDT in a single 2 inch pipe to the container and back instead of just 1/2 the MDT drainage through this circuitous route. If I am going to do all of my skimming and run the reactors and dose in the other room connected to the water change station does having ALL the water flow through this area with each volume cycle of the MDT make a difference vs. half the volume per cycle in trying to keep healthy livestock? I am a little nervous about the 2 inch single pipe. If there is a blockage in the 2 inch pipe I am screwed. If there is a blockage in one of the 1.5 inch pipes with my original plan of 1 pipe draining to the under cabinet sump and the other taking the route to the other room-container then back to the sump I am probably still screwed but less so.

Other options would be to decrease the pump flow once the system is set up with a gate valve I can finely tune (currently it has a ball valve) of place some type of pump in parallel with the drain

Thoughts

[Uncle Salty 05]

20 elbows sounds like a lot of elbows.
Not sure why you would need that many.
Unless the bulkheads in your drains are 2" increasing the size of the pipe won't help.
Above you say the container will have a water level of 39" but the water will enter the room at 26". I think this might be a problem.
If all of your skimming, dosing etc. is going to be done in the water change station what is the sump under the tank's purpose?
If you run both drains to the water change station you would need to have your new water ready, empty the station and then refill while the system is down if I understand your plan correctly.

[jamgar]

thanks for the reply uncle salty

This was taken from one of my previous threads that got no interest except by rocket surgeon who I will direct here. It explains what I am trying to do. It is a lot like this but with no basement. http://http://www.reefcentral.com/fo...335781&page=12 You are right I can loose most of the elbows and 8 ft with some modification in the other room.

I am currently working on a ro/di, water changing station in a large closet behind my MDT and sump. Probes, reactors, skimming, and dosing are planned to occur at the salt water tank that will be running in line with the MDT (approx 320g). The sump which is under the MDTand consists of a 55 gallon wet-dry that I am removing the bio-balls from and connecting the opposite end from the return pump chamber to a 29 gallon Rubbermaid via a 1.5 inch PVC connection. The Salt water changing tank will fill from the MDT and then return to the sump. The water changing station can be taken off line to dump the system water into the sewer line (approx 50 gallons) refilled with ro/di and then placed back online after the salt is mixed. I need advice on the following:
1) I am setting up the sump as a non display refugium and thought I would put chaeto in the rubbermaid, connected to the 1st chamber of the wet dry in which I would replace bio ball with live rock, a 5 inch DSB in the 2nd chamber-skimmer compartment (the DSB would negate the first bubble trap ie. baffles necessitating the flow of water over the first baffle in the wet dry filter). Water will then flow to the inflow pump chamber. Any reason to reverse the placement of the chaeto and the DSB?
2) As I have two returns from the MDT I was going to divert one of the returns to the water changing station and one directly to the the sump underneath the MDT because it is easier logistically. Would you have the return to the same chamber of the sump or different chambers and if so which return to which chamber?
3) Right now my bio load is low but will grow in the future as I hope to keep sps and soft corals and a few more fish. I will be dosing two part and mg. In your experience what size dosing holding containers will I need as my bioload gets higher to last for a week ie. 5 gallons, 10 gallons etc.? As I design the space I would like your thoughts so I can incorporate the size and placement of the containers. I am currently replacing between 10-14 gallons a week with ro/di due to evaporation. from my ro/di tank which is 69 gallons (the same size as my water change tank)

I know this is a long read and thank you for your time and consideration. I plan to have two display refugiums in the near future one with mangroves and one with planted macro. I will probably need advice on those at a later date
Jim

[Uncle Salty 05]

Let me make sure I understand.
Are both ends of the sump drilled? One end drilled to attach the rubbermaid and the other for your return pump?
How many gallons is your return pump pushing?
You don't want chaeto or a DSB being blasted by a lot of flow.
The chaeto will disintegrate and the DSB will be constantly stirred.
As far as dosing goes all I dose is kalkwasser and Mg.

[Uncle Salty 05]

I use a 10 gallon tank for my kalk reservoir and I have to re-fill it every five to 7 days and my system is smaller.
You might need a 20 gallon tank for a 320 gallon system if you only want to fill it weekly.
Remember with your water changing station you will have a much greater surface area than just your DT. Evaporation will be increased unless you keep the water changing station sealed.

[jamgar]

Under the tank will be a refuge with chaeto in the rubbermaid, xenia on LR rubble.

The DSB vs. RDSB may or may not get done depending on how the back room is set up. I will have a tank next to the salt station for dosing, frag etc. That tank will be 30x20x12 and be connected to the changing station with a inflow and an outflow 1.5 pvc with a variable speed pump so I can control the flow right now Iam planning on putting my skimmer and reactors in there. If High flow is needed I can incorporate the skimmer pump to move water from the changing tank and back (don't skim the same water twice). I can also petition off a front area to skim and put a RDSB further down the tank with minimal flow (the tank next to the changing tank will have water flow in and out on the same side.

The salt changing station will be sealed with a 5 inch screw lid.

I will be able to flip some valves and isolate the changing station from the MDT and sump. Water will just circle around back to the sump. Then I can open the sewer line connected to the changing tank and pump the water to be changed out. Then flip a valve and fill the changing tank with ro/di which will exactly replace 50g of water. Add 1 bag salt, flip a switch to turn on the heater and mixing powerhead and, once mixed, flip a valve and bring it back online with the system.

Automatic top off will occur directly from the ro/di storage tank possibly via a kalk reactor.

The sump is drilled on both ends and the chaeto will be in the rubbermaid (about 30 gallons where I think I am going to return all the water through filter socks. I will use pwer heads to get a tumbleing action on the algae then flow to the 1st and 2nd chamber of the 55 gallon sump I have now with LR rubble and xenia. I hope to grow varios pods in all of these areas. Then the return to MDT.

Pump probably turns over my MDT 10 times an hour...2500 3000 gph...but I have not measured yet. The return pipe exits the sump opposite where the rubbermaid will go, makes a 90 degree turn, goes through a wall and into a back room to the pump, pipes then go back through the wall in the other direction and go to the tank ie. the pump is already plumbed and running in the back room.

I am basically trying to get most of the stuff out from under the tank and into the back room where I can walk around and tinker with it.

The flow is maybe a little high in the sump for a fuge...but hopefully not for a chaeto, xenia, pod farm

The more I think about it the more I like the idea of running all the drainage of the MDT combided in a 2 inch pipe

I'm really sorry but the whole thing is hard to explain and I really appreciate you taking your time to help

[jamgar]

As far as the kalk dosing...I guess I could dose though a 5 gallon DIY kalk reactor. I could probably recharge it with lime monthly.

How much mg solution do you dose weekly?

[robrich342]

If this helps both of my drians come out of the bottom of my MTD and go into a 2 inch y then flow to my sump I have in my basement.

[robrich342]

To not have massive air bubbles introduced into my sump I made a three stage filter system for the drain water to flow thur before hitting the sump.

[jamgar]

Rob...actually that helps my piece of mind quite a bit. I am having the tank drilled and bulkheads fitted b/f I get it delivered so am going over any problems this could cause. I will need to ensure a Turbo can't get in my drain pipe and screw the whole thing up. I am thinking the increase of 13 inches of head pressure will have minimal impact on flow from the MDT

[jamgar]

Rob- how big is your tank and stand pipes?

[jamgar]

Rob- how big is your tank and stand pipes?

[Uncle Salty 05]

Your plan sounds like a good one.
One thing to keep in mind is if you are going to run your SG at 1.026 you will not get 50 gallons from a 50 gallon bag of salt.
I put 38-40 gallons in my brute and pour in a 50 gallon bag of IO and get 1.026 to 1.027 everytime.

[robrich342]

My tank is 120 , 48inch variety.

my drainage is 760-800 gallons per hour x 2 so , I have 1600 going out and 1600 going in per hour.