Flood Proofing External Skimmer - Advice Pleas

Khazmodain · 02/11/2011, 03:27 PM

I just purchased an H&S A150 external protein skimmer which I'm pretty excited about. Since it won't fit in my sump (unless I did some extreme rearranging and ditched my refugium), I am planning on running it externally. I'm still not 100% sure how I will be feeding it, but it will likely be one of these options:

From the overflow of my frag tank (which currently drains into the same sump as my display).
Put a small overflow box in the frag tank which I would place a pump into to feed the skimmer.
Feed from a pump which is in the sump which the display and frag tank both overflow into.

I've never used an external sump before and am obviously concerned about the possibility of it overflowing and causing a flood. I've flooded the people below us before and would prefer to avoid a repeat of that event!

The common approaches I've heard are:

Place skimmer in a bucket
Put a float switch on feed pump
Modify collection cup to have a high drain back into sump

I don't want to put the skimmer in a large bucket for aesthetic/fiance wouldn't be please reasons. Also it wouldn't prevent a major flood. For example if the skimmer is pumping way too much water into the collection cup and it overflows the bucket it is sitting in. My current skimmer has gotten stuck and will push massive amounts of water into the collection cup which currently just goes back into the sump... it wouldn't take terribly long to overflow a bucket, so I don't like this route. Also, it would end up triggering my ATO which would be dumping gallons of fresh water into my system.

A float switch on the feed pump would work if I had the right setup I think. But I'm pretty sure I would have to be pumping from the sump (not the frag tank because it would start a siphon since it is higher than the skimmer) and I obviously couldn't use a float switch for a gravity feed from the overflow. I would also have to have the collection cup draining into another cup where the switch would be located since I don't see a way to place one in the skimmer's primary collection cup. Or is there another way to do this?

Another option that I do like the idea of is modifying the collection cup to have a high drain hole that would cause the skimmate to drain back into the sump if it reaches a certain level to avoid a flood (essentially what an in sump skimmer would do). Unfortunately I think my skimmer will be placed too far away from the sump for this to drain effectively. I don't think there would be enough pressure on the drain line for it to run far enough to get to the sump. Also I'm afraid that in the event of a major flood scenario that it wouldn't drain fast enough to keep up with an overflowing skimmer.

So of these 3 options, I believe the float switch would be the most effective, but it would require a specific setup to work. I'm also not sure of where the float switch should actually be placed.

Does anyone have any other ideas or advice?

Thanks!

bandsaw2 · 02/11/2011, 04:01 PM

Never used that skimmer but you should be able to adjust it so it won't keep overflowing. I have an external skimmer and it's feed from my return pump. I know some people feed it from there overflow.

Khazmodain · 02/11/2011, 04:05 PM

I don't have the H&S A150 yet.. should be here on Monday. And I'm sure it will be much better than my in sump Marineland Pro 300 and shouldn't have the same issue where it sticks and starts pumping massive amounts of water into the collection cup. But I definitely would like to have some sort of fail-safe in place just in case. And even if I'm gone for a week and couldn't find someone who could empty the collection cup, I would like to make sure that I'm not going to end up with skimmate all over the floor.

Allmost · 02/11/2011, 04:06 PM

Id say get a big container, and hang it right above ure sump and put the collection cup line in it...

if overflow, the bucket will fill up and back to ure sump so no flood !

I personally still dont trust myself and all those minor leacks around the pipes or pump or .... but that is just me

Khazmodain · 02/11/2011, 04:20 PM

Here's the problem with that approach though with how I have everything laid out:

-----------------
|.......................|
|...Display Tank...|0000000000----------
|.......................|000000000|............|0------
----------------- 0 -------0|...Frag...|0|.......|
|.......................|0|Chiller|0|....Tank..|0|Skim.|
|.......Sump.........|0|........|0|............|0|.......|
|.......................|0|........|0|............|0|.......|
----------------- 0------- 0-----------0-------

I don't know if there will be enough pressure at the bottom of the skimmer's collection cup to have the drainage line run all the way back to the sump which is located about 5 feet away.

PS: Yes I realize how awesome that illustration is.

redfishblewfish · 02/11/2011, 04:59 PM

Here’s what I did. My tank is in a first floor finished room with hardwood floors. I could NOT afford a leak. I have an external MRC 3 skimmer with a hose coming out of the collection cup to a jug. If anyone knows MRC’s, they are finicky. They can be fine one second and the next second they could be blowing wet skimmate like crazy. So I ran a 120 volt float switch to a socket. The socket would take the plug from the pump that feeds the skimmer. The float switch was mounted in a spare salt bucket (cut down) that holds the overflow jug. If the skimmer goes nuts, the jug overflows, activating the switch, that turns off the skimmer. Saved me twice in the last two years. Here’s a couple pictures that may help:

FLOAT SWITCH ATTACHED TO OUTLET

FLOAT SWITCH MOUNDED IN PIPE TO PROTECT SWITCH

FLOAT SWITCH ASSEMBLY IN BUCKET WITH OVERFLOW JUG

Khazmodain · 02/11/2011, 05:15 PM

Yeah I really like that idea. The only downside I can see is that it does limit how I hook up the skimmer - can't have a pump feeding from my higher elevated frag tank or from an overflow. However, I'm in a similar situation with hardwood floors and really can't afford another flood. So I think this may be the most reasonable route. Now I need to find a way to inclose this setup so it isn't an eye sore.. All of my cabnet space is already taken up by the sump and calcium reactor.

chuckreef · 02/11/2011, 05:16 PM

I have two deltec apf 600s on two tanks. They are basically the same skimmer as the one you've purchased. Mine are both teed off of the main tank overflow lines for feed water. I was concerned about this too when I first got them, so I placed each in a ten gallon aquarium as a secondary containement. The fact is they've never overflowed and I don't think they ever will. If either ever did by the time seven or eight gallons collected in the 10 gal aquarium secondary containement, the flow in either main tank will have decreased significantly and the skimmer would likley stop overflowing.

I guess what I am saying is don't make it so complicated, your new skimmer will just dial in and work and you'll be kicking yourself for not getting a good skimmer sooner.

Good choice by the way.

solitude127 · 02/11/2011, 05:55 PM

Instead of putting the float switch on the feed pump, put it on the skimmer pump. That'll kill the bubble and should bring down the water level.

djt511 · 02/12/2011, 08:51 PM

i have been wondering the same thing as well since i am purchasing a new skimmer and planning to put it outside the sump..

skimmy · 02/13/2011, 06:23 AM

you really need to check out the "davy jones skimmate locker"
from avast marine.
does everything u want including a nice skimmate collecter and auto shut-off for skimmer pump for $119
......done and done.

skimmy · 02/13/2011, 01:51 PM

also...
while it sounds nice to plumb an overflow directly to the skimmer,
i would suggest that you use a small feed pump that is better suited to provide the exact amount of process water you are feeding the skimmer.
IMO, the surface proteins are going down the drain to the sump anyway, and it's more benificial to be able to know/control the amount of water your processing.

Khazmodain · 02/14/2011, 04:50 PM

I agree, the sump water came from a surface overflow already so it shouldn't be much different using a feed pump compared to T'ing off the overflow line.

Now I'm faced with the quandry of how to plumb the external skimmer into my system. There's no room under my stand for the skimmer to sit so it has to go outside the stand somewhere. I'm assuming it has to be elevated higher than the sump for it to drain back into the sump properly, is that correct? Does anyone know if it is possible to place a small pump on the return line from the skimmer back to the sump so I could place the skimmer 5 feet away or so from the sump?

Khazmodain · 02/14/2011, 04:52 PM

By the way, redfishbluefish where did you get that float switch? That looks perfect... I'd rather not dish out $100 for another JBJ ATO system if I could just get a simple float switch to hook up like that.

redfishblewfish · 02/14/2011, 05:24 PM

I picked up the float switch used from a friend. They aren’t cheap ($50-$60). You would probably be better off picking up a 12 v float switch with a relay to shut off the 110 v current. You could pick up what you need at Aquahub (www.aquahub.com), for about $20. You would need a switch, relay, relay plug, 12 transformer. If you are like me, you probably have an old 12V transformers sitting around the house from other electrical stuff you’ve since tossed. I’d put the relay and plug for the skimmer pump into a two gang plastic electrical box. Hope this helps.

Khazmodain · 02/16/2011, 02:58 PM

Well I actually managed to get the skimmer into my sump. Pretty much was like building a ship in a bottle. So I'm not longer worried about an overflow. Unfortunately I had to sacrifice most of my chaeto fuge. Hopefully this doesn't cause the pH to crash too much in the night since I had it on a reverse photo cycle.

02/11/2011, 03:27 PM	#1
Khazmodain Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Des Moines, IA Posts: 231	Flood Proofing External Skimmer - Advice Pleas I just purchased an H&S A150 external protein skimmer which I'm pretty excited about. Since it won't fit in my sump (unless I did some extreme rearranging and ditched my refugium), I am planning on running it externally. I'm still not 100% sure how I will be feeding it, but it will likely be one of these options: From the overflow of my frag tank (which currently drains into the same sump as my display). Put a small overflow box in the frag tank which I would place a pump into to feed the skimmer. Feed from a pump which is in the sump which the display and frag tank both overflow into. I've never used an external sump before and am obviously concerned about the possibility of it overflowing and causing a flood. I've flooded the people below us before and would prefer to avoid a repeat of that event! The common approaches I've heard are: Place skimmer in a bucket Put a float switch on feed pump Modify collection cup to have a high drain back into sump I don't want to put the skimmer in a large bucket for aesthetic/fiance wouldn't be please reasons. Also it wouldn't prevent a major flood. For example if the skimmer is pumping way too much water into the collection cup and it overflows the bucket it is sitting in. My current skimmer has gotten stuck and will push massive amounts of water into the collection cup which currently just goes back into the sump... it wouldn't take terribly long to overflow a bucket, so I don't like this route. Also, it would end up triggering my ATO which would be dumping gallons of fresh water into my system. A float switch on the feed pump would work if I had the right setup I think. But I'm pretty sure I would have to be pumping from the sump (not the frag tank because it would start a siphon since it is higher than the skimmer) and I obviously couldn't use a float switch for a gravity feed from the overflow. I would also have to have the collection cup draining into another cup where the switch would be located since I don't see a way to place one in the skimmer's primary collection cup. Or is there another way to do this? Another option that I do like the idea of is modifying the collection cup to have a high drain hole that would cause the skimmate to drain back into the sump if it reaches a certain level to avoid a flood (essentially what an in sump skimmer would do). Unfortunately I think my skimmer will be placed too far away from the sump for this to drain effectively. I don't think there would be enough pressure on the drain line for it to run far enough to get to the sump. Also I'm afraid that in the event of a major flood scenario that it wouldn't drain fast enough to keep up with an overflowing skimmer. So of these 3 options, I believe the float switch would be the most effective, but it would require a specific setup to work. I'm also not sure of where the float switch should actually be placed. Does anyone have any other ideas or advice? Thanks!

02/11/2011, 05:55 PM	#9
solitude127 Proud user of IO Salt! Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Torrance, CA Posts: 9,136	Instead of putting the float switch on the feed pump, put it on the skimmer pump. That'll kill the bubble and should bring down the water level. __________________ Mike <)))>{ <)))>{ <)))>{ <)))>{ ReefKeeping.com TOTM Nov 2012 Socalireefs Featured Reef Oct 2011 Current Tank Info: 603020, 8x54 ATI Powermodule, ReefBrite XHO, ATB Elegance 200, Aquamaxx CTech CaRx, Ecotech Vortechs, Apex Controls, WM Ecobak powered. RedSea Reefer 170, MP10, Apex Jr, Ecotech Radion XR15, Aquamaxx WS-1

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02/11/2011, 04:01 PM	#2
bandsaw2 Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: N.J. Posts: 143	Never used that skimmer but you should be able to adjust it so it won't keep overflowing. I have an external skimmer and it's feed from my return pump. I know some people feed it from there overflow.

02/11/2011, 04:05 PM	#3
Khazmodain Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Des Moines, IA Posts: 231	I don't have the H&S A150 yet.. should be here on Monday. And I'm sure it will be much better than my in sump Marineland Pro 300 and shouldn't have the same issue where it sticks and starts pumping massive amounts of water into the collection cup. But I definitely would like to have some sort of fail-safe in place just in case. And even if I'm gone for a week and couldn't find someone who could empty the collection cup, I would like to make sure that I'm not going to end up with skimmate all over the floor.

02/11/2011, 04:06 PM	#4
Allmost Moved On Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: canada, toronto Posts: 8,161	Id say get a big container, and hang it right above ure sump and put the collection cup line in it... if overflow, the bucket will fill up and back to ure sump so no flood ! I personally still dont trust myself and all those minor leacks around the pipes or pump or .... but that is just me

02/11/2011, 04:20 PM	#5
Khazmodain Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Des Moines, IA Posts: 231	Here's the problem with that approach though with how I have everything laid out: ----------------- \|.......................\| \|...Display Tank...\|0000000000---------- \|.......................\|000000000\|............\|0------ ----------------- 0 -------0\|...Frag...\|0\|.......\| \|.......................\|0\|Chiller\|0\|....Tank..\|0\|Skim.\| \|.......Sump.........\|0\|........\|0\|............\|0\|.......\| \|.......................\|0\|........\|0\|............\|0\|.......\| ----------------- 0------- 0-----------0------- I don't know if there will be enough pressure at the bottom of the skimmer's collection cup to have the drainage line run all the way back to the sump which is located about 5 feet away. PS: Yes I realize how awesome that illustration is.

02/11/2011, 04:59 PM	#6
redfishblewfish Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Central New Jersey Posts: 716	Here’s what I did. My tank is in a first floor finished room with hardwood floors. I could NOT afford a leak. I have an external MRC 3 skimmer with a hose coming out of the collection cup to a jug. If anyone knows MRC’s, they are finicky. They can be fine one second and the next second they could be blowing wet skimmate like crazy. So I ran a 120 volt float switch to a socket. The socket would take the plug from the pump that feeds the skimmer. The float switch was mounted in a spare salt bucket (cut down) that holds the overflow jug. If the skimmer goes nuts, the jug overflows, activating the switch, that turns off the skimmer. Saved me twice in the last two years. Here’s a couple pictures that may help: FLOAT SWITCH ATTACHED TO OUTLET FLOAT SWITCH MOUNDED IN PIPE TO PROTECT SWITCH FLOAT SWITCH ASSEMBLY IN BUCKET WITH OVERFLOW JUG

02/11/2011, 05:15 PM	#7
Khazmodain Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Des Moines, IA Posts: 231	Yeah I really like that idea. The only downside I can see is that it does limit how I hook up the skimmer - can't have a pump feeding from my higher elevated frag tank or from an overflow. However, I'm in a similar situation with hardwood floors and really can't afford another flood. So I think this may be the most reasonable route. Now I need to find a way to inclose this setup so it isn't an eye sore.. All of my cabnet space is already taken up by the sump and calcium reactor.

02/11/2011, 05:16 PM	#8
chuckreef Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Davis, Ca. Posts: 816	I have two deltec apf 600s on two tanks. They are basically the same skimmer as the one you've purchased. Mine are both teed off of the main tank overflow lines for feed water. I was concerned about this too when I first got them, so I placed each in a ten gallon aquarium as a secondary containement. The fact is they've never overflowed and I don't think they ever will. If either ever did by the time seven or eight gallons collected in the 10 gal aquarium secondary containement, the flow in either main tank will have decreased significantly and the skimmer would likley stop overflowing. I guess what I am saying is don't make it so complicated, your new skimmer will just dial in and work and you'll be kicking yourself for not getting a good skimmer sooner. Good choice by the way.

02/12/2011, 08:51 PM	#10
djt511 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 59	i have been wondering the same thing as well since i am purchasing a new skimmer and planning to put it outside the sump..

02/13/2011, 06:23 AM	#11
skimmy T3am Zissou Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Galactic Sector ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha Posts: 1,123	you really need to check out the "davy jones skimmate locker" from avast marine. does everything u want including a nice skimmate collecter and auto shut-off for skimmer pump for $119 ......done and done.

02/13/2011, 01:51 PM	#12
skimmy T3am Zissou Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Galactic Sector ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha Posts: 1,123	also... while it sounds nice to plumb an overflow directly to the skimmer, i would suggest that you use a small feed pump that is better suited to provide the exact amount of process water you are feeding the skimmer. IMO, the surface proteins are going down the drain to the sump anyway, and it's more benificial to be able to know/control the amount of water your processing.

02/14/2011, 04:50 PM	#13
Khazmodain Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Des Moines, IA Posts: 231	I agree, the sump water came from a surface overflow already so it shouldn't be much different using a feed pump compared to T'ing off the overflow line. Now I'm faced with the quandry of how to plumb the external skimmer into my system. There's no room under my stand for the skimmer to sit so it has to go outside the stand somewhere. I'm assuming it has to be elevated higher than the sump for it to drain back into the sump properly, is that correct? Does anyone know if it is possible to place a small pump on the return line from the skimmer back to the sump so I could place the skimmer 5 feet away or so from the sump?

02/14/2011, 04:52 PM	#14
Khazmodain Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Des Moines, IA Posts: 231	By the way, redfishbluefish where did you get that float switch? That looks perfect... I'd rather not dish out $100 for another JBJ ATO system if I could just get a simple float switch to hook up like that.

02/14/2011, 05:24 PM	#15
redfishblewfish Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Central New Jersey Posts: 716	I picked up the float switch used from a friend. They aren’t cheap ($50-$60). You would probably be better off picking up a 12 v float switch with a relay to shut off the 110 v current. You could pick up what you need at Aquahub (www.aquahub.com), for about $20. You would need a switch, relay, relay plug, 12 transformer. If you are like me, you probably have an old 12V transformers sitting around the house from other electrical stuff you’ve since tossed. I’d put the relay and plug for the skimmer pump into a two gang plastic electrical box. Hope this helps.

02/16/2011, 02:58 PM	#16
Khazmodain Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Des Moines, IA Posts: 231	Well I actually managed to get the skimmer into my sump. Pretty much was like building a ship in a bottle. So I'm not longer worried about an overflow. Unfortunately I had to sacrifice most of my chaeto fuge. Hopefully this doesn't cause the pH to crash too much in the night since I had it on a reverse photo cycle.